No gain 1st mn with Bib hanger . .

>>Also, w/ all due respect to Bib, i don’t think that lig gains can ever be 100% “tapped out”. Think about doing a split. How long do your ligs have to get to be able to do a split? (long as hell, right) But i agree that focusing 100% on ligs after you’ve got a very low LOT would not be EFFICIENT. <<

When you reach the poiint that there is no more internal penis to expose, you have maxed out lig gains. There is only so much internal penis to expose, and it has to be held inside your body with the ligaments in order for you to gain anything through stretching your ligs. As an example, I started with a LOT of around 9:00. Now that I have maxed out my potential for lig gains, I can tell that I am hitting the internal anchor points when I hang (amongst a couple of other places …. internal anchor points are actually where I feel it least of everywhere I feel it when I hang, but the feeling is there and distinct nonetheless). I don’t think that would be possible unless the ligaments were no longer holding any of my penis inside of my body. Also, now that my ligaments are not my limiting factor, I can feel the tension at various points in the shaft (namely the septum and slightly ahead of my exit point) that I did not feel when my ligaments were my limiting factor. Just like there is only X number of degrees of range of motion to be gained through stretching your ligaments for doing the splits, I believe there is a finite amount of gains to be obtained through stretching the ligaments supporting the penis.

Nice post by the way.

Cap, CC, Anon & Soon,

Thanks for your responses. They were the imput I needed.

Will keep hanging in there.

Anonymous- Just a thought on re-reading your post.

>2) The reason why you might not be getting the same measurement the next day is b/c of the fatigue factor. You’ve got to get fatigued to grow. But being fatigued prevents super EQ (erection quality), therefore the different meas. <

Wouldn’t it make sense then, that in Nostradomus’ case that his erect measurement would improve were he to measure a few days AFTER hanging (read: fatigue) instead of decline the way it did?
In short: As his fatigue subsided and his erection quality improved his measurement should have improved.

>And incidentally, i don’t think that measuring after hanging should be avoided. Like i said, it is an indication of where you’ll be if you keep gaining and cement that meas. Measuring after jelqing might be a different matter though.<

I like that. Makes sense.

—-Cap
BTW: I read your 9+ EL thread. Another good one. I remember seeing it but after browsing the first paragraph I shut it down and moved on because I thought it was just another of what I’ve come to think of as ‘braggart’ threads. This experience opens my mind a bit about my preconceptions and fears. So let me join the choir of apologists for my earlier sarcasm. My intentions were self-deprecating—- though that doesn’t mean that I don’t hate you, dude ;)

Nost,

Keep hanging. I’m in my sixth week and have measured every two weeks. No gains in the first four. Now I’ve suddenly gained 1/2” in the last two weeks. I think it was the increase in weight — I’m now up to 12.5 lbs BTC. You’re probably hanging for plenty of time, but when it no longer fatigues you, add more weight. More importantly, just keep waiting… the weeks will add up.

Very good advice,I fully agree with you Stud. Perseverance and patience will keep the motivation up,don’t get too hung up about this;it has potential to lower drive to meet your goal.

Jones

Thunder,

The man i learned the swimcap method from, and proprietor of this fine site. I’ll keep the abbreviation thing in mind, but sometimes i get so long winded that abbreviations just start happening out of the self-preservation factor. Just fucking around, i’ll keep it in mind. Much respect Thunder.

CaptnHook,

What’s up man? About my EQ issues: i guess it’s hard to feel for a guy with a 9+” dick that’s not even fully hard, huh? What can i say?

Soon2b9,

RE: my views on ligs:

I haven’t gotten to the point that you have so i can’t speak with the authority of experience, so therefore it’s pure theory. But i have been active and athletic since i was a kid.

I was active in bodybuilding when i was in my late teens and read all of Joe Weider’s theories on stressing tissues (i know muscle growth and PE are not 100% interchangeable, but physiologically a ligament is a ligament. Whether it’s in your dick or any other part of your body).

My point is this: (the split example) Joint range becomes the limiting factor. I can do a split, i’m not fully at 180 degrees, but i no longer push the issue either. But there are pulley systems that martial artists use to get them past 180 degrees. At some point, more range of motion for kicking isn’t a greater benefit i’m sure.

But my point is: I think that the hips are the limiting factor at a certain point, because if you are willing to put in the time, energy and effort and the pelvis would not limit,you could keep getting lig gains. It’s more the limits of what the joints can handle, not ligs (if you pushed them that far).

How that relates to PE is this: (1st let me say this: My inner penis goes all the way back to my asshole. I have read that some guys have less inner penis. But some guys can’t do a split, no matter how much they stretch. Some guys work out and get big but can’t get cut, and the reverse. Some guys are sprinters but are not distance runners, and the reverse. This is the point that i was making in my original post to Nostradomus’ concern. These are the natural variables in people. Some guys will work hard as hell at PE and make few to no gains. Some won’t work nearly as hard and they’ll make very good gains. That’s just the natural differences in individuals, but i’m sure i’m not telling you anything that you don’t already know.)

But you pretty much confirmed my theory. You said that your ligs are not your limiting factor. Some of this has been theorized in threads that i’ve read (can’t remember the titles now), that there will be need to be an ever changing emphasis/ focus on ligs versus tunica, depending on which is limiting at the time. And i agreed with Bib’s views in that sense.

But just on facts alone, if someone chose to only hang straight down, if he had good genes for PE, he could gain. Think of those tribesmen with 18” dicks. You don’t think that they were taking nearly the technical/ analytical approach that those on this board do, do you? No, they hung straight down all the fucking time.

Now as this relates to you and anyone who has similar specifics as you: I don’t know how much inner penis you have. But this takes us back to whether gains come from ligament stretching/ inner penis release or lig stretching / cellular growth, or some combination of the three.

And as i said, SD hanging/ stretching 100% of the time might not be the most EFFICIENT route, but it would work if someone had good PE genes. The tribesmen are empirical evidence of that fact.

But that takes us back to the EFFICIENCY issue: The tribesmen had an advantage over us in that they started a lot younger ages than anyone here (no one’s supposed to be less than 18, right?). And also, hanging shit from your dick was culturally acceptable in their social structure. So they could do it without hiding like everyone here must do.

So they had two advantages: #1 started sooner. #2 could do it all day without running into any problems (try going to work or to the supermarket with something hanging from your dick and not be arrested as a pervert. Or at the very least, some serious social ostracism/ rumors being started).

So to sum, up hanging at different angles is more about being EFFICIENT due to having started late (what’s the point in being hung if you’re 75 before you get there) than hanging SD not being effective after a certain point.

It’s good to intelligently exchange views, we can all learn something from each other’s experiences.

Nostradamus, on top of the other advice I’d look into some stretcher that was comfortable and you could wear during the day or at night after hanging. This made a difference for me. I buy into the theory that it locks in the gains.

bim

Thanks for this post.

I got alot out of it.

GMJ

Hey anonymous,

Thanks.

>”No, they hung straight down all the fucking time.”

How do we know they hung down all the time?? Maybe they have a rig that they trow over their shoulder?? Awful hard to run from critters with a hugh rock dangling between your legs….

>I’m a little dissappointed (Ok alot . .) that I didn’t gain any length the first month of hanging.

A month is a timeframe set in your mind; your dick doesn’t watch the calendar.

Gains don’t come as you would expect. You’d think x hours of this or that gave me y amount before, so it should be the same again. It doesn’t work that way.

Gains usually come in spurts. Nothing for a long time, then out of the blue an increase, sometimes very substantial.

I think Bib has written before about this, but here’s my take:

Part 1:
Hanging will lengthen the tissues, but the routine necessary to accomplish this can also tire out the erection mechanism. You will not measure your best EL right after an intense hanging session.

Part 2:
It may be necessary to jelq/pump/wait/whatever to allow bloodflow to increase to fully expand your newly stretched tissues. Your ligs/tunica are longer or larger, but has your dick gained increased bloodflow to make the most of this increased size when you are erect?

Be patient. Keep hanging. If you want to measure, track your pre-session BPFSL and your post-session BPFSL. Watch how much each workout temporarily lengthens your dick. It’s the most realistic measurement of daily/weekly/monthly progress for the routine you are doing. Expect it to stay the same for quite a while. Then one day it will be longer, and surprise you. You’ll be elated and wonder if you measured incorrectly. Then you’ll see that extra fraction the next day, and the next, and so on until it cements and becomes your new norm.

One month isn’t anything. Keep plugging away, and the effort will pay off.

Thunder,

That was a good one!

CaptnHook,

RE: ‘wouldn’t Nostradomus’ length increase a day after hanging’ (bear with me, i don’t know how to quote, so i had to paraphrase)

I’m a little tired, so i’m going to try to be concise. Earlier in this thread i went into how i use to bodybuild. And when i applied some of the priciples, certain things didn’t make sense.

To grow while lifting weights you need to “recover” or you’ll just get very lean and defined, not big. But after learning about PE, and the theories that the penis is not a muscle and therefore can’t be trained like a muscle, i began to think that it didn’t make sense that the penis would need recovery time, since it didn’t have the same properties as muscle.

And like i said, if you’re a certain size, you don’t need to think about recovery, because you’d still be capable of stroking with poor EQ if you had very good length. The question of whether the penis NEEDS recovery time, is a yes and no answer.

The previous paragraph illustrates the NO. And the opposite (being shorter) might illustrate why recovery time is necessary. The stress of PE causes the ligs to break down (i’m just thinking of a length routine now, so i’m only thinking of ligs). But since ligs are only connective tissue, why do they need to recover?

Well, the creator or natural selection didn’t orient our ligs only for PE, they adapted to the realities of day to day life. So when you pull or strain a lig, it apparently contracts so it can heal close to it’s original shape. And that is a good thing when you twist your ankle. Bad when you’ve got a good fatigue from PE, because the same organic principle that was good for your ankle is now causing problems with your EQ.

I’ll give an example: I said that i had a super EQ 9 3/16” measurement in September. And i knew that a 9 1/4” meas was there to be measured (i took like a 20 year break from measuring my dick by the way, but i guess that’s a storyline for another post or thread). But then i logged onto this site and began blasting away with some of the things that i read here, and i dropped back to 9” measurements due to fatigue/ ligament contraction.

And that would be a good thing with a sprained ankle (you wouldn’t want your ankle to stay twisted off in a certian direction or loose in it’s joint indefinitely would you?) No, and neither would i. And it’s this natural objective of our bodies to heal themselves that causes EQ issues when fatigued from PE.

And a day later is not enough time to recover from a good fatigue, not for me anyway (but earlier in this thread i went in to how differences in people dictate that no two guys are interchangeable). When i dropped back to 9” from a good fatigue it was 2 weeks before i got to back to 9.25” and my EQ wasn’t great when i got back there either.

So as i said, ligs that didn’t heal themselves would be good for PE, but would be bad for tripping over things. Natural selection didn’t figure we’d be pulling our dicks to make them grow, so it didn’t account for that.

Hobby had a point in post #25 that might apply. He theorises that while the tunica and ligs might have grown, the CC and CS might need time to catch up. Maybe. But i tend to think lig contraction is the issue, because i think that everything is stretched from stretching, CC and CS along with the ligs. But since there is no way to put a PE’ed dick under a microscope, i guess we’ll never definitively know.

And this last thought might not make me very popular but, a final point on PE potential: I read the thread asking if everyone could eventually be 8”. My answer is no. Not everyone can have 120+ IQ. Not everyone can run the 40 yard dash in 4.2 seconds. Not everyone can bench press 500 lbs. Not everyone can take the same prescriptions for the very same conditions. Etc, etc.

Not everyone is going to grow. I’m not trying to be cruel or discourage anyone. But just think of the posts from guys that are not growing or taking 2 years to get very little growth. Think about it, it’s pretty difficult to get this wrong (you pull your dick this way, that way. Not very complicated instructions to follow). As i said, some guys will work extremely hard and get few to no gains, and the reverse is true too. It’s not that they aren’t doing it right, it’s that they don’t have the potential (good genes for PE). Two people who do the exact same things can get very different results, inside of PE and in other persuits as well.

The guy who started the ‘Can everyone get to 8 inches’ thread, said he knew that no matter how hard he worked out, he knew he would never get as big as Arnold. And he’s right, most won’t. Different people have different capacities, and on the reverse side, limitations. Same applies to PE.

I’m not saying that that applies to Nostradomus, or anyone who contributed to this thread for that matter. It just seemed like the logical next thought since i was thinking about natural selection, evolution, bodybuilding, the variables from person to person and how those very relevant concepts apply to PE.

The spell check wasn’t working (for me anyway) so i misspelled theorizes and pursuits. Then the 10 minute edit time expired on me before i could amend.

I figured out what the problem was. Problem solved.

Thanks Guys,

For all the insight, information and support.
You’re a real inspiration in continuing PE.
I’m learning patience and perseverance.

Best regards to all.

The only thing I feel for you is admiration, Anon. Your posts are excellent reading and I hope they’re helpful in Nost’s case.

You might want to watch the puns, though—like the one above. I’ve got a reputation to think about :)

Keep up the good sharing—-Cap

Hey anon, not trying to invade this thread, but I did want to address one thing from your post above.

>>Not everyone is going to grow. I’m not trying to be cruel or discourage anyone. But just think of the posts from guys that are not growing or taking 2 years to get very little growth. Think about it, it’s pretty difficult to get this wrong (you pull your dick this way, that way. Not very complicated instructions to follow). As i said, some guys will work extremely hard and get few to no gains, and the reverse is true too. It’s not that they aren’t doing it right, it’s that they don’t have the potential (good genes for PE). Two people who do the exact same things can get very different results, inside of PE and in other persuits as well.<<

The key here is they get DIFFERENT results. That does not mean a complete and total ladk of results. You are correct, not everyone can work out to the point that they are going to be Mr Universe, but by the same token, unless you have some sort of disease that deteriorates muscle or prevents your body from combining the necessary amino acids, you will gain muscle mass through working out … some just have to work harder for the same results. If you stress tissue, microfailure is inevitable. Collagen, the main structural protein of the tunica albuginea (and of the entire body for that matter), gets weaker with age. Also, crosslinking increases with age (hence “shrinkage” with age maybe). Point in case, with age, the number of individual collagen firbils that are taking the stress of a given weight decreases (and thus they are collectively easier to break). Also, although some people may practice PE for some time without results, there is always the possibility that gains come easy as hell after the first limiting factor/factors is/are broken. Although I have no sceintific supporting evidence/proof, I truly believe the mechanism of growth in PE has to do with straightening individual collagen fibrils (although certain firbils will have to be broken or undergo plastic deformation first in order for this to occur) and making gains that are not even measurable individually, but collectively result in a measurable gain. Given the structure of collagen, I believe this explains a lot about why some guys gain girth easier than length or vice versa as well (ie, some are prone to different crosslinking arrangements, therefore less fibrils are taking the tension in a given direction). Okay, I’ve gotten way off of my initial point with all of this rambling (sorry about that … been sleep deprived as of late), but I wanted to say that even if gains are not easy in the beginning, as collagen fibrils fail and less and less are there to stop the straightening of the other fibrils, gains may come more easily than before once these limiting factors are overcome. (all theory aside, even if I am incorrect about the mechanism of growth, the fact that gains may come easier after initial limiting factors are broken has been previously proven through the actual practice of PE and what other men have reported)