Changing the clay we try to mold

I am of course talking about collagen. Many threads have been written on the subject. I have read most and I am not much wiser. This is an attempt to get a serious discussion going. I am inviting anyone who think they can contribute. Doctors and mad scientists are especially welcome.

Here’s what I am thinking. As people here are doing the same exercises and getting different results there must be something different with our bodies. Collagen is a protein and there are around 20 different varieties in our bodies. Type 1 collagen is the most usual one and represents 90 % of our total collagen. The protein built like a chain and is very tough.

After puberty the penis does not grow anymore. PE is not about growth, but about enlargement. Hence, all discussions about growth hormones, testosterone etc are needless as that concerns growth, not enlargement.

One reason that people get different results from PE might be that we all have our own mix of collagen types. I might have 90 % type 1 and someone else 70 %. Hard gainers probably have a similar collagen setup, if this is a correct assumption.

If this is true there might be people who will be quick gainers, hard gainers and no-gainers. It’s just a matter of genetics.

On the other hand. Let’s assume that we all have identical “collagen structures”. In that case we should be able to get the same results. So why don’t we?

Maybe it has to do with how the collagen responds? Heat is always a “hot topic” in PE. Heat probably has the capacity to change the collagen’s properties. We are changing the clay so to speak. The clay gets easier to mold (elongate, widen). How can we change the clay in other ways? This has also been discussed a lot on the forum. But most is speculation. From Wikipedia:

“Collagenase clostridium histolyticum (marketed as Xiaflex by Auxilium), a drug approved by the FDA to treat Dupuytren’s contracture, has been reported to break down the excess collagen that causes Peyronie’s disease. According to Auxilium, “the first phase II trials…showed promising results.”[20] The drug has not been approved by the manufacturer or the FDA for the treatment of Peyronie’s disease, and such treatments are currently considered off-label use, and are discouraged.[21]”

There are ways to change the properties of the collagen. I believe (and hope) that this could be a way to increase the pay off with PE. It could also help hard gainers.

Another thing that is interesting with collagen is the strength. It is harder than steel but at the same time it is “plastic”. How do we make use the plasticity in the best way? Well, first we should not try to “break it” quickly. Time, not (high) force must be the way to do it it seems to me. That would explain why people get results from ADS, extenders and hanging. Serious hangers are hanging 20-50 hours a week. ADS users are recommended 8-12 hours per DAY. How anyone could get any results from jelqing and stretching a few minutes a day is beyond me and not consistent with this theory.

What are your opinions on this? What have I missed? What is already known that could support or dismiss these “theories”? What results have you made that makes you believe in this or not?

Mostly I am interested in intelligent comments on:

1) ways to change the properties of collagen to our advantage
2) the best use of force vs time
3) how to combine 1 and 2 (the obvious and boring example: hanging 4 hours a day with 3 kg, using an infrared lamp to loosen up the collagen)

Cheers mates!

Yeah, I totally got that from the title. :confused: :shrug:

I really think PE is this simple:

Use enough force to stretch/break the collagen then use less force and keep the collagen in new shape(=longer) before it heals.

At least this is how it has worked for me and still seems to work. I consider myself serious hanger and I’m only hanging 14 hours per week. It’s all about breaking the tissues and let them heal in longer state(or not let them heal actually, just keep stretching). I never gained from ADS so for me time without force is waste of time.

My body seems to take AT LEAST 2 days, probably more to heal the micro-tears and make the soreness go away. I’m doing 1 hour hanging twice a day so my body really does not have change to heal in shorter state. If it heals in shorter state, no problem, next hanging session will pull it all apart again.

I have also noted that when my general health is not the best(=I smoke), my gains are much easier than couple years ago when I was eating all the vitamins and going to gym 4 days a week. I know many of you won’t agree with this but this is again my own experiences. This should make collagen weaker.

For me what works seems to be, ride the fatigue, everyday every set I’m hanging. At the end of the day I don’t really feel like I would benefit from more time under the hanger. Just hanging what ever angle is not the best option either, you should go with what gives the best stretch on tissues that limits your size.

You may thinking now, how does that make sense if he does not let the tissues heal? Well, body seems to “heal” the tissues 24/7, and most healing seems to happen when I sleep. So in my opinion rest days really suck. Yes, they will give you bigger erection because the soreness goes away and your dick gets that 100% EQ again. Did it make your penis bigger? No. You measure longer on rest days? Yes, the inflammation of the tissues seems to go away. You also let the tissues heal completely and they are now stronger, that’s how the body heals. Now you need more force or deacon if you do this too many times.

This is why I think riding the fatigue is really key to gains. You keep the already stretched tissues at the new length(=size). You don’t need to go back to your max weight until you feel like you need it again. I never let the soreness go away 100%. I don’t think you should let them heal in longer state either(=aka ADS and wait for the soreness go away fully). Why not just keep stretching them when they are in the weak state? This way they will still heal but slowly and slowly longer. Just lower the force if your max weight feels too much.

This is what I have noted with my own body, maybe this does not work for all. I’m also hard gainer and never gained from manuals. Sure, you can stretch with bigger force but I can’t stretch with enough force for hours a day everyday.

I also think BPFSL is the real measuring tool. My BPEL and BPFSL has always been almost the same. So I never got any newbie EQ gains.

well, I got peyronies cause of too hard exercises to early while beeing diabetic(worst combo possible)
still im more or less functional and gained length through extender and manual stretches.

Im awaiting the xiaflex stuff every day but it may take until 2013 for europe.

Im 100% sure that the time approach is the smartest way to gain. I prefer more frequent or longer exercise that are just intense enough to trigger gains..

If you do more intense exercise then its necessary to be accustomed to it or/and to rest for longer time.

yeah, its kind of easy..

I want add something to my post.

I didn’t say that manuals don’t work. I said they didn’t work for me.

I didn’t mean you should strap 100lbs on your dick or too heavy amounts. Like dickerschwanz said, enough tension to trigger gains. Time without triggering gains= nothing.

In the gym I can push really hard with no injuries and my wounds heal very fast. I’m almost never sick. I guess this is why just doing a little won’t work for me.

I think that would have tremendous implications for PE: collagen 1 might, nobody knows though how exactly, denature in in elastic pattern which means that at some point you are going to hit a maximum (loss of elasticity point).

However, you need to know the exact number of monomers comprising the collagen polymers in the penis to calculate how the denaturation would occur (I.e. At what exact temperature taken into account the uniaxial force to be applied, exact duration).

Theoretically, if the conditions outlined above were met, a couple of PE collagen denaturation sessions would probably result in significant gains.

How healthy would those gains be? I have no clue.

Now practically, that, unfortunately can’t be done.

Why?

"The denaturation of collagen is complicated among other variables by its polymeric nature and cross-linking. Despite numerous efforts, the precise mechanism of collagen denaturation remains unknown"

This last quote is from this study:
http://www.ncbi .nlm.nih.gov/pm … les/PMC1562377/