My introductory post and my schedule

Hi all!

After a bit of lurking and studying I make my move and post my first addition to this amazing site. I’ve been interested in PE for a while, but apart from a bit of excercising around Christmas of last year I haven’t been doing it much because of a tight schedule at school. The arrival of the summer holidays caused a spark in my interest and I went for a search on the net, finding Thunder’s in the process. I must say, the knowledge and support I have witnessed in the posts I’ve read here is really something. It seems like we’re all brothers on a sacred quest or something.:)

Since arriving here I’ve truly come to realize the importance of patience and consistency of training - not that I wasn’t aware of it before, having been a competing athlete, but it really hit home when I was reading some posts here. Results in PE won’t necessarily come as soon as when you start “regular” training, where overall shape, fitness and muscletone are more or less immediately affected (at least for me). So, I decided to measure my stats in the beginning and then follow my schedule rigorously, not measuring for six months. This to see whether my PE program works and what must be changed if it doesn’t. I’m in no hurry, my dick won’t run off on me, provided I take care [of it] :)

My program consists of a five-day cycle with four days on and one off. Since I read here that it may be better to start off on length than girth, I do three length days and one girth day. The excercises are mor or less those I’ve discovered here. Here it is, then:

(All workouts begin and end with 5 min warmup with a warm gel heated in the microwave)
Day one (intro day)
1. 5 min stretch, consisting of 5*60 s stretches -down, up, sides and straight out, with 30 *1 s kegel,30 s without.

2. 4 min V stretch:
4*1 min VS, applying pressure down,up,left and right. Change of “V-point” every 20 seconds (middle, base, close to glans).

3. 5 min JAI

4. 10 min wet jelq

Day two (shock day)
Same excercises, time spent changes to
1.20 min
2.16 min
3.20 min
4.25 min

Day three (maintenance day)
Same as above, time spent:
1. 10 min
2. 8 min
3. 10 min
4. 15 min

Day four (girth day) has two variations, which I alternate. Warmup as before.

A: 1. Jelq 10 min with Horse440 *10 s every full minute (being _very_ careful, I have read the thread on them)
2. Jelq squeeze 5 min
3. ULI#3 5 min
With 2. And 3. I take breaks to let fresh blood in every now and then.

B: 1. Jelq 10 min
2. Jelq squeeze 5 min
3. Plumped bend 5 * 20 s in all directions as shown in the video
4. Sadsak slinky 4 min, as shown on video

Whew! That was longer than I expected! Only one thing remains, the stats (Given in SI, ie metric, units first and uh, “the other” in parenthesis):

25.06.2005:

BPFL: 93 mm (3,66 in)
BFEL: 137 mm (5,39 in)

FG: 87 mm (3,43 in)
EG: 110 mm (4,33 in)

I used a see-through plastic ruler for the lenght and a plastic measuring tape for the girth.

Well, that concludes my post. Have a nice day! I’m about to turn in for the day, it being 01.13 AM over here. I proof-read the post once, but since I’m not a native speaker, my English may have some oddities in it - sorry:p

Vaeltaya [va:elta:ja:] signing off.

Welcome to the forum Vael. Your English is better than mine. How long have you been at the routine you have posted?

Not to jump on T’s response, but also a welcome and a hearty hi- ho neighbor.

I’ve only been at this a bit and am far from qualified as any sort of expert in this, but might a canned newbie routine serve you better in the opening act?

The routine you have assembled is very comprehensive even for someone with a bit more time under his belt [sorry, PE humor]. Something a bit simpler- perhaps along the lines of

5m warm-up of choice [ideally until you feel warmth d-e-e-p inside your unit]

100 Jelqs @ 3s. Per tallying out at ~5mins.

5 mins. Mixed stretching- avoiding the more strenuous/ aggressive ones to start

Perhaps finishing with a passive length wrap while your unit cools.

Some elements may seem slightly unorthodox- such as jelqing first, then stretching. I base that upon input from wadzilla in re conversations he has had with the idiot savant ;) of PE- “the big gainer”, who seemed to figure out a lot of this on his own. He surmised that Jelqing first served to ‘pre-stretch’ the tunica, so that actual manual stretching might be more directly effective.

Some here have recently hypothesized that cooling in an extended position after plastic deformation [such as might be accomplished by monty’s pe weights] may be key.

Starting conservatively gives you somewhere to go. Your current routine strikes me a akin to a gym newbie assembling a routine addressing his anterior tibialis imbalance- while the rest of him is 60 kilos at two metres. That newbie would likely be better served getting a generic canned beginner program a’la old school Joe Weider. If you follow this program and begin to plateau, how are you going to turn up the heat? Like a beginner in the gym, start with the most basic, ride that bitch until it no longer works, then- and only then- up the work load.

As to measurements- how will you know what’s working if you don’t do your stats?

The trick is to break the emotional connection with measuring and see it for what it is- a single datum point.
In isolation, such a single data [no pretentious proper Latin usage] is meaningless. Is an inch a lot or a little?

Depends- are we speaking of an inch of $100US bills? Or an inch of dogshit?

In other words- are we speaking of an inch of water in a glass for you to drink when crossing the Sahara?
Or an inch of water that you will drown in face down and drunk in a defunct swimming pool?

See what I mean? Datum/ data is only meaningful in context with other data.

I recommend fitness folks to weigh themselves [prefereably on a B/F% scale] under identical circumstances- ideally first thing in the a.m., literally upon arising every a.m. And then write it down and walk away. Then when you look at your training and diet log, correlated with your weight/BF data, you have a clear picture of the effectiveness of your training.

Same with PE. Take a single measurement every week, same conditions.

I personally only measure BPFSL, as [as I have noted earlier] it requires nothing more than pulling my johnson as far as it will go. I also go so far as to only use a tally stick to prevent ‘overreaching’, mark it and date it and then tuck it away for a week.
N/BPEL requires wood; wood requires and depends upon state of mind. Maybe once a month, when catching a particularly good hardon, will I measure any EL.
That’s just me.

Your English is just fine- hell I’m still working on mine and it’s the only language I’ve got.
Luck and length.

I nominated andro’s above post for consideration for the most helpful newbie post contest. He afterwards asked me why his post got through to me so well.

So I let loose with an overly-wordy incoherent babbling PM in reply. He has now asked me to post that PM response here in this thread. I hesitate to do so since like I said, I just kind of let loose, ignored regular forum guidelines, and just tried to get it all down as quickly as I could. Please forgive any regular forum faux pas. I hope he’s right and that others somehow find it helpful or at least amusing. :)

**************************

Okay, I’m not sure where to start. Man, this was just an excellent all around post in my opinion, and covered MANY bases, including ones I think I needed to re-examine in my own routine and attitude.

>>Some elements may seem slightly unorthodox- such as jelqing first, then stretching. I base that upon input from wadzilla in re conversations he has had with the idiot savant of PE- “the big gainer”, who seemed to figure out a lot of this on his own. He surmised that Jelqing first served to ‘pre-stretch’ the tunica, so that actual manual stretching might be more directly effective.<<

When I’ve seen the jelq first then stretch argument before, it didn’t make sense. Your simple explanation does make sense to me, especially considering the toughness of the tunica. When I’ve seen others mention it, it didn’t make sense because I accepted the thought that jelquing after stretching served to flush some fresh healthy blood into your now stressed out penis. Besides, without a convincing argument to back it up, it struck me as an incredible pain in the ass to stretch AFTER I’ve gotten it all lubed up and slippery, nevermind having to take the time to let the erection die down. But now, in my head, I can see why it might be beneficial and I’m considering flipping my routine around to give it a shot.

I’ve already this past week decided to try out some DLD Blasters AFTER my jelqs, based on the suggestion of xlmagnum. So my routine was looking like: 1)heat 2)stretches 3)heat 4)jelqs 5)DLD Blasters 6)heat. I decided to try it just to see what it would feel like, but I plan on getting xlmag’s thoughts on WHY he recommends blasters after jelqs… I’m now curious to see if he gives the same reasoning that you use for stretches after jelqs.

>>Some here have recently hypothesized that cooling in an extended position after plastic deformation [such as might be accomplished by monty’s pe weights] may be key.<<

I’ve been a believer of this from the beginning. It just makes total sense, but isn’t mentioned much to newbies. I always do a light traction wrap during warm-down to prevent the shrivel while the temp returns to normal, and I’ve done it since day one. If nothing else, I attribute very impressive gains in flaccid hang that I’ve had to the warm-down wrap after my routine, and trying to keep it extended while the temps return to normal. Again, it just makes a LOT of logical sense, and I don’t think us newbs hear it enough. As soon as I’m not flat-fucking-broke, I plan on replacing the post routine wrap with Monty’s weights.

>>Starting conservatively gives you somewhere to go. Your current routine strikes me a akin to a gym newbie assembling a routine addressing his anterior tibialis imbalance- while the rest of him is 60 kilos at two metres. That newbie would likely be better served getting a generic canned beginner program a’la old school Joe Weider. If you follow this program and begin to plateau, how are you going to turn up the heat? Like a beginner in the gym, start with the most basic, ride that bitch until it no longer works, then- and only then- up the work load.<<

Shit, shit, shit… I needed to hear this. I’ve been doing my routine for one month today. I started with the “DLD Newbie” routine as outlined in the newbie forums on his MOS site. Now I’m not a DLD fan, but I just happened to find MOS before I found Thunders.. And I thought, for the sake of consistency, I’d stick with that newb routine even though it seems MUCH more hardcore than what everybody at Thunder’s recommends. My logic was that, yes, even though I’m doing much more than is recommended HERE for a newb… I wasn’t too worried about overdoing it, since I was starting out VERY light with the stretches and jelqs, very light, and I worked up slowly to higher intensity, always being careful to monitor for signs of over-doing it. I thought that made the heavier newb routine “okay” for me.

HOWEVER, what I didn’t account for was your point above about what happens if I begin to plateau, how am I going to turn up the heat? I NEVER thought about that. As it is, as a newbie, my routine takes about an hour every night… Well holy shit, if I hit a plateau and need to turn up the heat suddenly I’m looking at what??? Increasing my routine to 2 hours?!??! No, that won’t work for me. Suddenly seeing what newbie gains I can tease out with a MUCH lighter Thunder’s newb routine makes way more sense to me. Again, a bit of an eye-opener for me.. Not sure what I’m going to do about it yet. I’ve had thoughts about totally changing my routine around every month to prevent becoming TOO accustomed to what I’m doing. Maybe just stepping WAY back is something I should think about.

(As an aside) Changing it up monthly is something I’m sure I wouldn’t get much support on here. Like you said above “ride that bitch until it no longer works, then- and only then- up the work load” … I agree with the “THEN up the work load” part, but my gut instinct says to not ride the same routine until I’m out of gains, when I can change it up, and not dry out any particular method. (Along the lines of the benefits of deconditioning breaks) This is already getting longer than I planed, so I can expand on this later if you want me to.

Damn this HAS turned out to be a book, my apologies, I’ll cut it short so I can get the kids in bed.

The whole measurement section. Wow, just great advice, I won’t detail all my impressions on it right now, again, I will later if you want me to, but I just leave it by saying it was excellent advice. I’m not sure I can do it and walk away like you suggest, being the type to over-think and doubt myself, but I might try it as opposed to my current attitude of just KNOWING it works, and checking BPEL after three months to confirm my “knowledge”. I’ve just recently started checking my BPFSL weekly, so I’m halfway to your method already.

Sorry again for the length. Your post was excellent, truly.

Thanks brother - just spitballing.

I’ve been around the fitness industry for~25 years, and one thing I have learned is that in their hurry to get to their destination, most folks, particularly newbies, don’t maximize their return for time/ effort invested, I.e., they’re getting great response from a basic compound movement program, but they get bored, impatient, insecure, so they add in two more movements per body part, and one more set per movement- literally tripling their net workload and pushing them into overtraining.

I keep thinking of the old saw- if it ain’t broke, DON’T fix it.

I get tempted all the time to pursue change for the sake of change- that’s my incipient ADD.

Doesn’t mean it’s productive.

As I get older- and lazier- I am more interested in reversing the speed ratio and getting the most bang for my buck.

Which is why consistent measurement is important.

And, as noted above, including the whys and wherefores, I rely on BPFSL. When I note a substantive change in BPFSL, I start to watch for quality wood to check EL/ EG.

As I have to be up at 0400, I’ll address the rest manana. Si?

;)

Good information androNYC. :)

Just to clarify my position a bit more, I’m not really one in a hurry to get to my destination, I’m more of one who recognizes that I have a somewhat unique freedom to really experiment and learn with this stuff. Sure, I want to see gains, good gains, that come with a fair amount of ease, just like everybody else. But I’m also fascinated with this whole process and curious as hell. Since I work at home in a private office, and have a wife that is supportive of my new PE obsession, meaning I don’t have to try to hide anything, I know I’m free to really mess with stuff and see what happens.

When I say I’m thinking about changing things up every month, I don’t mean in the context that you’re thinking of. I’m not trying to add more workload, as your example, I’m trying to just come at it from a different angle with regular frequency. Same workload, different strategy. Sneak attack. Change things up just when my Johnson is getting used to what I’m doing. Guerilla PE.

I decided to go ahead and shake up my routine tonight at my 1 month mark. Among the changes: putting jelqs before any primary stretches, dropping some stretches and replacing them with a different stretch and different stretch methods, switching from standard jelqs to lower level erection and a slightly faster pace, etc. What the hell have I got to loose? Seemed less intense and less time spent, but now that I’m done, it feels completely different than the routine I spent the last month with. I’m actually excited about it. I don’t want to get too far hijacked away from the original thread, I’ll have to get around to detailing my routine and changes in a Progress Report thread.

Speaking of saws, maybe it’s not a question of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. Maybe it’s a question of sending out your saw to be sharpened and using an axe for a few weeks before going back to your now sharper saw. ? Know what I mean? Or is the late hour making me obscure again? :)

Si. Nice spitballing with ya.

Since you have all the time in the world to expierment just like me every day, I suggest trying some hanging soon. I just started hanging with a home-made rigged up hanger based off Piet’s little hanger and I really have learned so much in the past few days from hanging related to PE. The slightest change in angles with your body from raising your arms or legs, lowering your hips, lifting or lowering you head, those little movements make all the difference in feeling a good hang while hanging in certain positions. It just amazes me how much there is to hanging. As I said I just started so am doing my thing, and can’t wait for the gains to come in. I know they will since I am intelligently learning from each session new positions and angles to get the best hang in. Who knows after I get my length goal, clamping might be next in my PE adventure. Hanging rocks dude!

Wadzilla’s post on his convo with the big gainer was the first time I had considered the notion of Jelq/ Stretch ordering, and the manner in which Wad presented all the info in that thread, including his comments on intensity and hanging/ weight increases just ‘made sense’ :jelq: :hanger:

As to the ‘messy lube’ issue- I hear you, but as I have noted, I am a dry Jelqer almost exclusively- in fact every time I wet Jelq, weird shit happens- particularly asymetric lumpy lymphatic buildup on the right side.

Truth be told, whatever gains I have gotten I feel are from the most basic of movements- again, like the gym. You want big, stick with clean, heavy compound movements- presses, cleans, pulls, etcetera. Same with PE, I think- warmth, Jelq, stretch and cool in a stretched position- adding exotica when you plateau- and I certainly didn’t mean that when you ride that bitch 'til she drops, you should milk a routine dead dry [I actually don’t know that you can do that- I’d think that simply switching off for a bit serves if not as a ‘deconditioning break’, it may be an opportunity for the basic routine to become fresh again], despite the hyperbole.

Rather that again-
If it ain't broke don't fix it!

If the saw is still cutting properly, why grind away at it?

And however you approach the not broke/ fix it issue, if one doesn’t measure, how can one even consider a routine’s efficacy.

Again, just spitballing.

LoveMachine: Eventually I’m going to try hanging, but I’m not in a hurry to get there. I’m really interested in the manual stuff, for as long as possible. But, yeah, when I do start hanging, I’ll be able to build contraption-like hanging pulley systems all over the office with no problems. It’ll be fun when those days come :thumbs:

androNYC: I hesitate to get too far off-topic from this guy’s original post… which I think is where my original reply was going. :) For now, I’ll say I think we’re closer to agreement than you think. And I’m totally with you on the measuring. Absolutely.

I gotta read that Wadzilla post you referenced and chew on this a bit. :)

Just click through and take your time- Wad provided much solid analysis there.

I thought we might not be too far apart- but I never ass-you-me.

Vaeltaya- I hope that any of this discourse may have been helpful brother- and welcome aboard, and I thank you for providing me the opportunity to work through my anaylysis,