Integrity

A gain is a gain, regardless of how little. We’re all working diligently - many by faith alone - to develop a unit we are comfortable with….even proud of. We should strive to advance our “secret society” with integrity and accuracy - sharing with each other what we’ve learned.

Integrity is important - and not just honesty in measuring. But truthfulness about our routines, our progress - as well as our setbacks. This approach will benefit all of us, as that’s how we’ll accumulate as much useful information and experience as possible.

The medical community won’t help us - they don’t believe in this shit. And if they lurked in our forums, and saw some of the bullshit, their dismissive opinions would only be reinforced. We have to do this ourselves.

And we need to be vigilant about bullshit. When I started the thread, “Size Study of DLD” (Size Study of DLD), I didn’t feel “happy” about it - mostly disgusted, in fact. But I received a lot of PMs from guys thanking me. Some guys laughed about it, some cursed DLD; but most expressed disappointment, even depression, but they thanked me for it.

I saw no benefit in guys chasing after a phony and performing dangerous moves (severe erect bends) and brutal workouts (1,000+ jelqs daily), and all sorts of other extreme shit based on a hoax. And, even worse, to pay him money for information based on a huge lie.

Honestly, I wish DLD did gain 4.5”, because then I’d have complete confidence that 2.25” would be mine. But it’s far better to have a truthful and accurate understanding of what our odyssey is all about (perhaps as little as 1/2” gain per year - and maybe a grand total of only 1.5” or so - regardless of how *crazy* we make our PE workouts).

Time to move on.

- w a d

Amen.

I couldn’t agree with you more, Wad.

Horsehung

Yes, it is time to move on.

To quote Cappy;

“Now that is the spirit of PE”

I agree whole heartedly with Wad that integrity is paramount to every rule and principal we possess in this community.
That said, I can’t help but notice a disturbing pessimism floating about in these various “size” threads. We all goof around and have our laughs, we throw down on politics, we rant and rage on a wide variety of issues - which is fine; no one really gets harmed and it has little if any bearing on the real reason we are here.

Arriving at a reasonable expectation as to what gains are possible is a healthy thing, no doubt. At some point each of us individually has to be pragmatic about what we are truly capable of. But I fear this mindset can be toxic when offered as a standard rule to adhere to, because what we are doing here is in defiance of everything we have ever been told - we are breaking the rules - quite possibly standing at the doorstep of a revolutionary subculture - and what the hell, someone please tell me, is revolutionary about pragmatism?

I have pulled out my share of impressive gains, I have contributed what I can to help others do the same. Most importantly, I like thousands of others have looked to certain people for inspiration, knowledge, answers; and were it not for a few of these people I am all but certain I would at this moment be back where I was one year ago - pretty unhappy about an issue that has plagued me for as long as I can remember. To say that I feel I owe a debt to certain people would be a serious understatement.

Does that mean people should not be called out on questionable claims? Of course not, it’s goddamn necessary - especially with high profile people who open the door to it - but I have read some pretty off-putting things about people who are not around to defend themselves - people that I feel I owe a debt to, people that I respect.

Most specifically, I have seen Bib’s integrity called into question, and I won’t fuck around here and mince words: This disgusts me.
Of all the high profile people in PE no one comes close to touching Bib in the integrity department. I have no doubt that these things would not be said with such reckless abandon were Bib here to step up - but that is beside the point: If we here as a community want to lay claim to a lofty level of integrity, we ourselves must exhibit that same integrity at all times.

I have nothing to say one way or another about anyone’s claims - I never have - nor do I find fault with anyone willing to fairly challenge another member’s claims. But if a man as loaded with heart as Bib can have his integrity called into question on this forum without anyone of the hundreds of people who benefited from his goodness standing up in his defense, then we are all vulnerable - all of our claims worthless, and integrity nothing more than a word we can’t fuck up because we have an excellent spell checker.

Wad:

Great thread as always: Also the expose on DLD was enlightening, although I’ve heard claims that his photos were shopped for as long as I’ve been here, I’ve not seen anyone put such a fine point on the speculation as you have. There may be threads in the archives that I’ve missed giving him an equal or better shellacking, but what does it matter who exposes fraudulent claims, as long as they are exposed.

But, you are absolutely right about the integrity of the craft. What good is a forum like this if we lie? The great thing about T’s place is the honesty and the anonymity. It is unlikely that any of us are ever going to meet in real time. It’s not like we have a need to impress one another with untried methods or photo-shopped pics of bogus gains. I mean, what is the point? If we are to succeed we need to be, HAVE to be absolutely honest about not only about our gains and how we got them, but also our lack thereof. For those of us who truly love PE, as he claims he does, we should feel obligated to share anything we discover that works, or appears to work, as well as pass on our failures, so others don’t have to go where we’ve been. It has been said that skin is the first limiting factor in PE but the biggest limiting factor is TIME. Time is the greatest hurdle we have to endure. PE works, there is no doubt about this or we wouldn’t all be here day after day obsessing with this bloody endeavor. But if we’ve learned nothing else, it is that PE is an excruciatingly slow process, and we CAN NOT afford to waste even one precious minute chasing false claims, or being duped by those who are in it solely for the sake of making a buck.

Whenever those dazzling wonders come through here bragging about unbelievable gains and how they did it, it sickens me. Mostly they are just ignored by the vets and those of us who have been around long enough to see through the BS. Even when their claims are clearly crap it still sets us back, if by nothing more than the wasted time it takes to read their threads. But it’s the newbes who are hurt most; the new guys who are vulnerable and are willing to try anything, even dangerous routines, blinded by the lure of quick gains. Either they injure themselves or at the very least waste months on radical techniques that are a waste of time, its just disheartening. But what is infinitely worse is when some clever entrepreneur comes along who is blessed with the gift of gab and naturally endowed, who actually develops a following of the young and naive then packages and sells PE like a product using fraudulent claims, in my opinion this undermines everything this site is all about.

Good work, Wad
BG

“Most specifically, I have seen Bib’s integrity called into question, and I won’t fuck around here and mince words: This disgusts me.
Of all the high profile people in PE no one comes close to touching Bib in the integrity department. I have no doubt that these things would not be said with such reckless abandon were Bib here to step up - but that is beside the point: If we here as a community want to lay claim to a lofty level of integrity, we ourselves must exhibit that same integrity at all times.”

Well said, Cappy: No one has done more for this community than Bib, with the exception of maybe Thunder himself, or (Thunder-Bib as some have speculated, ridiculously I might add.) for providing the conduit for pioneers like Bib and others. And maybe we SHOULD take some of these flamboyant size claims with a grain of salt; the internet is after all the last bastion of freedom of speech, and if someone wants to come on this forum and say they have a 19” penis and got it by hanging the Volvo from their dick, that’s fine, as long as they don’t start up a pay-site and try to sell me their new Volvo hanger with a lifetime membership for just $49.95 guaranteeing a 19” penis in three months or double my money back. I just hate to see anyone try to bottle and sell this craft. If their product well benefits PE, such as the Bib hanger, that is of course a different story all together. So what if Bib never posted any pics, at least he never posted any fraudulent pics. What he DID do is revolutionize the art of hanging with a well engineered and crafted device and started perhaps a legacy built on an idea that will no doubt develop and evolve long after the memory of his name has faded. I’m sure there will be many hangers and theories come to be based on his ideas that others will take credit for. But legends will be exploited, they always have. Haven’t you heard about the new BIFF HANGER developed by that guy that developed the LOP theory, (loss of pullback)

Captn -

I agree about Bib. I was surprised to see some folks saying nasty things about him in another thread.

I think the main thrust of Wad’s post here is to implore all of us, not just the PE “celebrities”, to be honest about our sizes, routines, and gains, so that we can better advance the science of this revolutionary subculture.

I don’t know Bib. Heck, I’m a newbie around here (lurking for a month or so). I would suggest one thing, though: How do we know that DLD didn’t just rip off the name? Is there a copyright on the term “Bib Hanger”? Do we know for sure that Bib is even directly involved? Could I start selling “Bib Hangers”, and could anybody stop me? Maybe that’s what’s going on.

This “Industry” is so filled with snake oil & charlatans that anything is possible. Stealing a product name would hardly be the worst fraud ever committed in this business.

Bigger is involved and he has his products protected.

“Size Study of DLD”

Thanks wad… i think those were all Photoshoped. Glad you pointed it out.

His website is nice too. Probably a graphic designer of sorts.

Peace.