Is it true the girth gains hinder length gains?

There is a misunderstanding. I’m referring to the theory exposed here
quickbeam1213 - Is it true the girth gains hinder length gains?

The reason why it is flawed is that is supposing that girth gains are due to gains in thickness, where this is not true; tunica is very thin, girth gains are due to a longer circular tunica, so CC can expand more. Although some increase in thickness is probably happening, this won’t make much of a difference, per se, even less when considered that when stretching you are pulling the axial tunica not the circualr tunica, and the penis is flaccid, so void of blood.

Good point.

I appreciate your insight Marinera, I personally started at 6 x 5.5 a few years back. My length gains were actually pretty fast and most likely due to EQ. I went to 6 7/8ths x 6 fairly quick and then on to 7 1/8th x 6 but that took some time. I have never been truly sold on length first as I believe that for me switching up every so often has been beneficial. For example if I have a major slow down in length gains I will focus on girth for a while and work the tunica and let the ligs get a long break.

I had recently come off of a break from hanging and went to pumping , jelquing and clamping. When I resumed hanging I gained length quickly and went from 7 1/8th to 7 and 3 /8ths very quickly but if I had gone by the length first theory I believe that I may be still having issues.

Basically in my opinion I think it is wise to go another direction when one is stuck, You can always return to what you were doing before and it seems to me that the sticking point will be removed. I hope that makes sense..

It makes sense, IMO.

[/QUOTE] The reason why it is flawed is that is supposing that girth gains are due to gains in thickness, where this is not true; tunica is very thin, girth gains are due to a longer circular tunica, so CC can expand more. Although some increase in thickness is probably happening, this won’t make much of a difference, per se, even less when considered that when stretching you are pulling the axial tunica not the circualr tunica, and the penis is flaccid, so void of blood.
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I don’t get what you’re saying. How do you define/compare the terms “thickness” versus “girth?” Are these terms not synonymous?

I don’t see how a longer circular tunica through stretching allows CC to expand much in width, minimally at best. When you say “longer circular tunica”, are you meaning the length or circumference of the tunica (tube)?

Here’s another analogy that may help explain my point: If I stretch a long deflated baloon lengthwise, when I blow up the baloon, it’ll allow the balloon to reach a greater length for same given level of pressure. It will have lesser affect on width/circumference. When I blow up the baloon, & it forces more pressure to the sides, it promotes more width/circumference expansion for same level of pressure next time baloon is blown up. How is my reasoning flawed?

I’m aware the penis if made up a many types of tissues, & is a much more complex structure.

The skin of the balloon actually gets thinner when it stretches.

It is my understanding that girth is the circumference; thickness is the dept of a solid layer. So what I’m saying is that when you gain girth, the amount of solid matter in your penis doesn’t grow accordingly; a penis which is double your girth not necessarily will have double of smooth muscle, double weight of TA etc; it could be just a penis with a bigger lateral perimeter (<->) which allows CC to expand more when filled with blood.

The TA has two layers; one layer allows length expansion, another layer allows expansion in circumference (or, if you like more, lateral expansion). If the circumferencial tunica is longer, the penis is fatter when erect.

Exactly.

Many believe that the layers of the tunica become thicker, others believe the girth is due to the ability of the tunica to expand more laterally. It is obviously one or the other but not both. If the layers or fibers of the tunica became thicker than it would stand to reason that girth gains would hinder length gains. If the tunica was able to hold more blood in the chambers it would also expand but the expansion would be due to the increased ability to hold blood within ( chamber expansion ), therefore creating expansion or girth increase without the fibers of the tunica becoming thicker.

I believe in the second of the two possibilities because in my humble opinion if it were due to scar tissue or thickening of the fibrous tissues of the tunica then at some point even girth increases would become damn near impossible. If the tunica became stronger as in added fibers or scar tissue not only girth gains but length gains as well would basically become impossible after a few months of PE for those that gained girth.

Many people use the balloon analogy by saying if you stretch it it will be easier to blow up. I have another analogy using the same said balloon. It is agreed by most that if you stretch it out it blows up easier and this is because you have weakened or caused be tensile forces the ability to make the balloon walls thinner and/or weaker. Take the same balloon and place another balloon inside of it or make the same balloon material twice as thick. If this was done to the balloon it would be damn near impossible to blow it up and would take many more stretches to do so. You could stretch the first balloon a few times and blow it up but the second balloon would take many more stretches to get even half of the results you could with the first balloon. This sucks for guys with many layers of tunica!

The odds of the tunica being ones limiting factor for length in my opinion is not the case, rather the septum is what I believe hinders most in length gains but again so much of this is theory and opinion that I may be so wrong I am embarrassing myself.

I stay well clear of “science” when it comes to PE because there is next to zero available.

There is biology and anatomical information, but mostly we can extrapolate zero from those studies, otherwise by now, PE would be well understood and methods would be specifically reproducable, which they aren’t.

Each member has to steer the gauntlet of un-science and find out what work on them.

It seems that however you look at it, we stretch & force blood to create stresses on the penis, and the penis naturally will make adjustments to accommodate those stresses. We believe the penis will accommodate by growing, whether it be in length and/or girth. I would prefer to believe (partly due to improved PEQ) that it accomplishes this through new cell generation, cell enlargement, or little of both, as opposed to weakening the skeletal muscle or causing scar tissue.

The balloon analogy would assume that to get larger, the rubber gets thinner, weaker, & so some integrity is lost. If the balloon gets too big, KABAAM!!!! The penis may not blow up, but it can get injured as we all know. I would hope that in the case of the penis, its response is to accommodate new size by strengthening, creating & expanding the cells to a level necessary to meet the the demands of a newer, larger dimension. I’m not aware of anyone here that has said, “I gained 1 1/2 inches, but now I can’t hold a healthy erection. I wish my penis was smaller.” LoL

Amen a-unit. I just don’t like experimenting with no results, & it’d be nice to have some biological evidence that might support a PE routine that works best for me. But it’s sort of interesting. In the end, I only care that it works, but appears many members are questioning their routines. Nobody wants to work their ass off for a year & see virtually nothing, and start all over again with another routine.

Thank you Marinera for explaining your definitions of girth & thickness. I suppose we are after both, desiring a stronger & healthier penis. Oh yeah, & bigger. HA HA!!!

As you said, the TA is surrounded by an inner circular layer & outer longitudinal layer, but to gain girth, IMHO both layers need to expand outward, & to gain length, both layers need to lengthen. And that goes for all the other parts that make up the penis. I can envision that one layer may be harder to expand laterally & the other layer to expand longitudinally. I can sort of see your point that by lengthening the circular layer, you get increased girth, but IMHO it seems that that’s possible because stretching loosens the integrity of the circular layer, allowing for the same outward pressure to push the layer out wider. There are studies with Penis Extenders which of course focus on length, & there was no or minimal (not statistically relevant) increase in girth. I’m not saying I’m right, but that I would like to understand how you came to your conclusion.

biggee — as far as limiting factors, I would say any cells that are considered skeletal muscle or fibrous envelopes fit into that category. To grow, everything must give, in one way or another. Our job is to figure out how much tension & pressure is needed to spur growth, but not cause damage.

I wonder if we shouldn’t consider creating a P90 PE program. :) I used to just use an extender. Results came s-l-o-w-w-w-w…. Then I added jelqing, & for whatever reason, I pushed through a plateau that I was sitting at for months. I’ve just recently added pumping, & will be interested to see how that works out. So basically, I still believe that I can’t find a substantial reason to focus on length or girth separately. In fact, I believe that girth & length exercise work synergistically.

Let the party begin!! :)

Charlie dog, there may well be something to switching between length and girth focussed exercise.

I suppose the tissues need rest eventually.

Charlie dog, I like the PE90, that would be great. I think discussions like this are important. I would imagine that as the balloon gets bigger there would be some repair happening and it would at least be enough to repair in such a way that the original strengths be maintained. I don’t want my balloon to pop!

I know that for me when I had been hanging for some time and was no longer getting results from doing 20 minute sets with 35 pounds that it was time to do something else. At that point my stretched flaccid had finally became longer than my BPEL so I figured a deconditioning from hanging was in order. I took two months and did absolutely nothing for length. I just pumped jelqued and clamped and when I was feeling ready some 2 plus months later I began hanging again. I made a fairly quick gain and we will see what happens.

I have often thought that doing some crazy ass girth work before hanging would yield great results for length but there just inst a way to do it without creating a painfull hanging session, what a bummer.

Which conclusion? I am a bit lost. Maybe what makes you confused is the idea that stretching expands girth? When we say ‘stretching’ we generally mean longitudinally, as in ‘manual stretching’; but PE is basically all about stretching, not only length-wise, girth-wise too. If you clamp, you are stretching both tunica layers; if you pump, the same is true; generally speaking all girth-oriented exercises work lenght too, where length-oriented exercises expand the axial tunica mostly. That’s why you see some people gaining a lot of length from clamping, where is virtually impossible to gain a lot of girth doing regular stretches*. So I was saying that to gain girth you have to stretch the circular tunica, this way the CC can hold more blood. This will not be much of a limiting factor for length gains beacuse the girth isn’t coming from adding much ‘solid stuff’, so to speak; that’s why Bib’ post was flawed.

Does this clear up things?

*except at the base, for reasons that aren’t much clear still.

Hey bigee — Appears we both went through the same process to push through plateaus. Ride On!! Yes, we need to keep this discussion going & sharing what’s working.

Marinera — yes that clears things up. We are on the same page actually. Ha Ha…

I’ll be back later. Just wanted to get a reply in today

I’d like to pose a question:

2 penises: 1 is 4” girth & the other is 6” girth. Both are 6.5” erect length. Assume all other variables similar. Assume they are both using extenders, same tensions & 1,200 hours to gain length for 1 year. Just for fun, we’ll say both their goals are to gain .75”

In a year’s time, do you believe, and/or have supporting evidence, that one of them will be able to gain more length than the other?

Now I’ll add a twist. Assume we change 1 variable. The only difference to their 2 PE programs is that the one with 6” girth sets his tension 25% higher. Do you believe your answer will have changed, and how?