Jelqing - Helping or hindering gains??

dance,

Maybe if you put the lowest adjustment tighter than the one close to the base that would allow for tunica stretching even if the hanger covers the whole shaft.

just an idea.

Dance,

Now I see where we’re getting confused. I use the Starter model which is a much smaller unit. When I bought my hanger I worked on the assumption that the smaller the area of attachment, the greater the area that could be potentially stretched ……. well, that and the fact that my penis was so small the regular size would have been a struggle to attach! :chuckle: Fortunately, that isn’t the case anymore :) . For me at least, the Starter choice appears to have paid off.

I came to the conclusion, after wading through information on phalloplasty surgeons’ web sites, that stretching ligaments was not the only way to increase penis size. All of these surgeons vigorously advocate some form of traction after surgery. This is meant to set and improve on surgical gains - especially erect gains. Now many of these surgeons sever the ligament completely without reattaching it so it would appear that gains achieved after surgery are not dependant on stretching the ligament - something else comes into play…… and that’s what I’m working on.

lil1 :lep:

SS4,

Sure that is the obvious choice. I tried an infinite number of settings and the main thing was getting a comfortable hang which was really hard in the beginning. I still could not get it to do what I discuss above.

Lil,

I thought that the concept was after the lig was cut then one could pull out the penis without the hindrance of the lig.

Dance

In most phalloplasty procedures the ligaments are severed, the penis brought forward and reattached. The penis has to be reattach at some point (but not necessarily the ligament although the latest trend appears to be partial reattachment of the ligament - gives better erection angles). If it’s not anchored somewhere the erection will just hang downwards between the legs - not a good look :(

lil1

Whoa, lil,

Just what are they cutting besides ligament? I thought that they only cut and reattached part of the lig at a lower point and that most guys had to hang after the surgery to stretch the weaken ligs to pull out the “inner penis”? OR am I just full of shit? Wait, don’t answer that second question.

Pretty scarey, huh! Depends entirely on the doctor. Some partially sever, others sever and reattach, some do “V” plastys, “Y” plastys or “Z” plastys, ….. one thing is for sure, a lot of them have gone wrong over the years and it’s damned expensive getting it fixed up!

One thing I’ve just thought of ….. if we’re just stretching the ligs and pulling more penis out, why isn’t there more aches and soreness inside? After a good work out with the weights my shaft is sore, but this soreness doesn’t extend inside. You’d expect at least some discomfort there if ligs were being stress and more penis was being progressively pulled out.

lil1 :lep:

Sorry I forgot to answer your whole question. Apparently, the traction applied after surgery is primarily about preventing the penis from healing in it’s original position and combatting any possible shrinkage that may occur as the result of the formation of scar tissue. As to the question of whether it’s the ligs or tunica and CC that are providing the extra gains, I’m not sure that even the doctors know the answer to that one!

lil1 :lep:

So how quick after surgery do they have these guys hanging? Kinda sounds like disinformation from some of the Docs to me. Could they be saying that so the credit for length gains goes to the surgeon instead of the hanging part of the combo? Hmmmm…I wonder.

Sorry :xtop:

It varies, but usually between 2 and 6 weeks and the program lasts for about 6 months. Usually only hanging very low weights too. I’ve never quite understood how it could actually be done - I mean, you have a deep incision wound just below the pubic bone, if you’ve had the girth treatment as well there’s another incision on the shaft encircling the glans……. brrrr … and then you’re surposed to hang weights off it!

I have no doubt that surgery works, but hey, so does hanging. I realized this when I started going through all the phalloplasty web sites. Of course none of them said outright that it works (that wouldn’t be financially astute!) however one doctor did say that there was “anecdotal reports” on the internet noting that someone had gained 4.5” from hanging. Hmmmm ……. I wonder who that is!!!! :leftie:

It seems that the surgeons are selling a whole PE package, pushing the surgery and underplaying the role of hanging. And I agree absolutely that they are unfairly cashing in on hanging gains by shifting the emphasis to the surgery part which makes them more money. Let’s also not forget that many of them are making money off the hanging devices too!

Just make me even more glad I found Thunder’s :)

lil1 :sun:

Dance,

>So then you are referring to previous hanging models when you say you had tunica stretch from hanging right? Or do you still feel that way about the bigger also?<

You know the problem with all of this is the different perceptions gained from our own experiences. I went through so much over a long period of time that is is hard to correlate everything in my mind. I know that my biggest limiting factor, other than pure comfort, was the fatigue from hanging on the upper shaft. The lower shaft even into my body would be fatigued, but not to the extent of the upper shaft. Later, when I made bigger hangers, it still was a problem for me. My last hanger that I used for gains was 4.5 inches long. I still had tunica stretch. Of course, I was using a lot of weight.

>It seems that your design has done exactly what you set out to do and that is, “putting LESS stress on this area and more on the shaft toward the base.” I notice you capitolize “Less” implying that there is still some stress.<

That is the idea. It seems the upper shaft should still get plenty of stress if the hanger seats on either side of the head.

>My penis when pulled and wrapped is almost completely covered by the hanger. A little before the head and between my body and the hanger is all that is left uncovered. So if that is the case and my penis is flaccid and compressed by the hanger, then how is it possible to stretch the tunica? <

Well, there is not one single point or area that grasps the shaft. It is grasped all along the area of attachment and the front thumbs seat behind the head. If the upper shaft did not receive stress, then the head would never feel any pressure at all. I don’t think this is ever the case unless you are using very low weights.

In order for the area of attachment to not receive any stress, the anterior portion of the hanger would have take it all. It does not.

>I feel no pressure whatsoever on the tunica, or upper shaft. The only feeling I get is in the ligs because of the effectiveness of the hanger. I guess if the hanger did attach in some way to the upper shaft and assist in the hanging I could see the point, but the way it worked for me was all the pressure was at the base. <

That is interesting. If you wanted the upper shaft to get more stress, you could either toe-in the hanger to where the front thumbs provided most of the grip, or loosen the hanger some to where the hanger slides down more behind the head. This would defeat some of the purpose however.

>In fact I thought we always wanted to avoid that pressure in the upper shaft. <

As I said, I always had too much stress on that area. So, I developed means to lessen it and put more on the base.

>I never could get it to dig in or create any tension in that area (except when I wrapped wrong and you corrected me by telling me not to have any wrap between the hanger and the head. The skin of the shaft goes over the head and you said that is ok and natural so where is this stress of the tunica? <

If the hanger is pulling behind the head at all, there is stress on the entire tunica. It will not be the totality of the weight because the rest of the shaft under the hanger is absorbing some. But it will be a significant amount. If the upper shaft is smaller than toward the base, this would make sense. The upper shaft would not need as much stress.

>I always wanted the hanger to work the way you describe (upper part sort of digging in and attaching below the head or resting on the ridge. I always thought that was the way it was supposed to work based on an old description. So it sound as if I missed out on some gains. However, for a long time I asked you why it would not work this way and then come to the conclusion that I must have misunderstood your previous description.<

I don’t remember that conversation in particular, and it appears to be a case of opposite experiences. But it may be that you just did not use enough weight to where the front thumbs came into play. Then there might not have been enough stress on the area to feel it.

>If it worked that way with me then I can see your point. However, like I say it just compressed the whole skin of the shaft and as I hung the the skin moved forward even over the head and all the pressure was on the base.<

Now it seems you are talking about something entirely different. First, if there is enough weight that the skin is moving forward over the head, then the front thumbs should come in contact on either side of the head. If the pressure is then felt on the base, that is probably skin pressure which will only result in skin stretch. That is fine until the skin has stretched enough to where the weight affects the ligs.

The skin is the first limiting factor which must be stretched. Neither the tunica or the ligs will be affected until the skin is stretched.

>In our previous conversations, and some you had with others, you said this was normal and fine, but now it sounds as if you are saying not optimal. <

I know some of that was not very clear. My point was and is, the true gains will not occur until stresses are placed on the tunica and ligs without the skin interferring. But the skin must be stretched first. I feel like some guys only stretched skin when using things like the swimcap wrap etc. That the internal structures and head were not grasped in order to transfer stress to them rather than just skin.

Perhaps for guys with a larger upper shaft, the Starter would be better. Allow for more stress on this larger area than with a regular hanger. It is an interesting point which I had not considered before. I still think the regular would be fine for a total tunica stretch by toeing in slightly. Then, if the upper shaft became too stressed, you could correct the toe to even or toe-out.

Bigger

Guys, this is such a great thread—-I have to tell you that I am writing this from my “PE attic” where I have set up the old computer— and I am hanging BTC with about 15 lbs, and feeling a good lig AND “upper” SHAFT (ie near body) stretch.

This is the first time for this particular “multi tasking” event.

Lil1, I don’t hang at 40 lbs all the time. I hadn’t hung for a while, and I liken the 40 lbs thing to driving down an expressway— suddenly your mind wanders and you’re doing 140 kph. It was soooo comfortable — pulling forwards and a little down—-I was shocked to see the spring balance on 40 lbs— . Funny you should mention the Sydney Gay Games— I had a joke with Avocet8 about that.

Bib and Dance..and everyone really…We desperately need a video— or webcam or something to illustrate the concepts of what we’re all grappling with here (No pun intended). —- The many and varied and very subtle aspects of hanging and how to do it.. I reckon that would get us on the “straight and narrow”, to mix the metaphore.

As an illustration of this type of conceptual problem and pictorial solution, Bib’s simple drawings have got me hanging much more effectively, and renewd my PE fervour as my recent posts will attest..

Just a few drawings— worth much more than a million words

During and once finished hanging I do feel that most of the stretch is in the part of the shaft nearer the body, and in the ligs. I have also wondered why my ligs aren’t sore inside my body eg next day— as Lil1 points out. I still don’t have to lower the force— excepting that the hanger might be getting uncomfortable.

I have the standard Bib, setup with some toe out in order to grasp the shaft.

I’m also kind of wondering if I shouldn’t do 2 hanging sets with the standard moulded Bib, (BTC) and one set —- probably pulling forward —- with the old modified Bib which puts more pressure on the part of the shaft nearer the glans.

Bib- do you have a comment about that?

Bib— Also —Did you not get most of your gains with the earlier designs?? Or were you experimenting with the more complex moulded hangers for a good deal of your gains??

(I also have to say that got confused with terminology of some of the replies in this thread concerning “upper”and “lower” shaft, which is why I have been careful to spell out just where I mean).

Sorry that this rambles a bit— that is the nature of writing with a fair degree of uncomfortable stretch going on in the nether regions!!!!!

Lil,

You say,

“if we’re just stretching the ligs and pulling more penis out, why isn’t there more aches and soreness inside? After a good work out with the weights my shaft is sore, but this soreness doesn’t extend inside. You’d expect at least some discomfort there if ligs were being stress and more penis was being progressively pulled out.”

This is why we seem to be on different pages. I totally feel it inside. In fact I was scared when I really started getting it right that I was getting a hernia or something else. I have seen others complain of the same discomfort and then Phat responded to me that those are normal feelings. Inside of my body beyond the penis shaft gets very fatigued. This to me has been the goal of hanging. Yes sure some of the shaft yes but also the ligs. When I finally started getting sore in that area I started to make some gains.

Dance

Bib,

Very interesting. One of my problems is that I am also remembering when I was hanging which I am not currently. :( I wish I could experiment a little now, but perhaps in a while I will be able to hang again. Anyway,

>If the upper shaft did not receive stress, then the head would never feel any pressure at all. I don’t think this is ever the case unless you are using very low weights.<

That was always my experience. Yeah I tried the adjustments and kept questioning and trying, but I just thought I must have misunderstood. It was not a matter of low weights. I used the max weight I could handle in the ligs (not the skin) at the time. I was hanging 13.5 pounds when hanging totally BTC and the ligs (inside the body) were getting hit as much as they could possible handle and fatiguing. In the OTS and OTL I would do 20 pounds. I don’t see that as the problem.

<It seems the upper shaft should still get plenty of stress if the hanger seats on either side of the head.<

I never got it to grip behind the head. I could have sworn we had quite a few conversations about this. I am working off of memory now and there may have been a small amount of stress in the tunica, but I believe most if not all was at the base and it would not do any kind of gripping at the head.

<In order for the area of attachment to not receive any stress, the anterior portion of the hanger would have take it all. It does not.<

In my best recollection it pretty much did in my case. At least most of it.

<If the hanger is pulling behind the head at all, there is stress on the entire tunica. It will not be the totality of the weight because the rest of the shaft under the hanger is absorbing some. But it will be a significant amount. If the upper shaft is smaller than toward the base, this would make sense. The upper shaft would not need as much stress.<

It did not pull behind the head. I guess this must be the key in my case. Here is the way it is. The base was about 1/2 inch larger in girth than the mid shaft, and the head was 1 inch smaller than the base circumference. I guess the upper shaft was somewhere between 1/2 and 1 inch smaller than the base. (That is why I am doing so many ulies etc., which is working). I tried and tried to get an adjustment that was comfortable and this was the best I could find.

<If you wanted the upper shaft to get more stress, you could either toe-in the hanger to where the front thumbs provided most of the grip, or loosen the hanger some to where the hanger slides down more behind the head. This would defeat some of the purpose however.<

Yes I tried that, but if I remember correctly it was too painful and I just could not get it to work right or grip behind the head. Now I am confused about your statement of defeating the purpose. I thought you are advocating putting the hanger more behind the head?

<Now it seems you are talking about something entirely different. First, if there is enough weight that the skin is moving forward over the head, then the front thumbs should come in contact on either side of the head.<

I wrapped to the base and put the hanger far back away from the head. The skin moved forward and covered about half the head, but the hanger would not grab or grip the head in any way because the hanger was still a little further back and the skin was covering the head.

<If the pressure is then felt on the base, that is probably skin pressure which will only result in skin stretch. That is fine until the skin has stretched enough to where the weight affects the ligs.<

This is not skin stretch in my case. I got the skin-limiting factor out of the way a long time before this. Even after that, if you remember I gained bp and not nbp? I then worked very hard purposely stretching the skin a great deal and was sucessful at doing this. Additionally, I always advocated pulling the skin out from the hanger so there was no skin stretch. This is not the problem in my case. I absolutely without question felt discomfort totally in the ligs. Remember I kept asking Phat about hernia or what was going on with this pain inside my body. I hung the max weight that my ligs, not skin, could take.

I guess it was just that I focused solely on the ligs and not the tunica and what you are describing. I just never could get that and after trying and trying and talking I gave up and just worked on the ligs. I guess when I start hanging again I will pay attention to it and toe in more. Also I am gaining girth in the upper shaft and head which might help.

I do find this very interesting and thank you for your feedback.

:)

Dance

P9

>Bib and Dance..and everyone really…We desperately need a video— or webcam or something to illustrate the concepts of what we’re all grappling with here (No pun intended). —- The many and varied and very subtle aspects of hanging and how to do it.. I reckon that would get us on the “straight and narrow”, to mix the metaphore. <

I don’t see how a video or pictures would help. What is crucial in the situations is how it ‘feels’. Hard to show on video. Whether the skin is loose or tight. Where the stress is felt, etc.

>I’m also kind of wondering if I shouldn’t do 2 hanging sets with the standard moulded Bib, (BTC) and one set —- probably pulling forward —- with the old modified Bib which puts more pressure on the part of the shaft nearer the glans. Bib- do you have a comment about that?<

I think it should be more a concept of how the hanger is adjusted. Putting the two halves of the hanger is spatial relation to give the amount of stress wanted at each of the locations.

>Bib— Also —Did you not get most of your gains with the earlier designs?? Or were you experimenting with the more complex moulded hangers for a good deal of your gains?? <

Almost all with the earlier designs. Most of my hanging with the newer versions was simply testing. A few sets at very high weights. But the old handmade versions were of the same concept, just not very neat.

>(I also have to say that got confused with terminology of some of the replies in this thread concerning “upper”and “lower” shaft, which is why I have been careful to spell out just where I mean).<

I was referring to upper shaft being toward the head and lower shaft toward the base.

Dance

>I never got it to grip behind the head. I could have sworn we had quite a few conversations about this. I am working off of memory now and there may have been a small amount of stress in the tunica, but I believe most if not all was at the base and it would not do any kind of gripping at the head. <

You may have and I simply did not understand. It is a question of perception. I always strove to get less stress toward the head and more toward the base. So the opposite thought would have been foreign to me.

><In order for the area of attachment to not receive any stress, the anterior portion of the hanger would have take it all. It does not.<
In my best recollection it pretty much did in my case. At least most of it. <

This is really great to me. Taking stress away from the head is probably the biggest problem in making a good hanger. When/if you start to hang again, I will help you to adjust the hanger to get more pull from the head. It should not be a problem.

>Now I am confused about your statement of defeating the purpose. I thought you are advocating putting the hanger more behind the head? <

No, it is not advocating. Each individual has to examine his own situation to see what is needed. My limiting factor was fatigue in the upper shaft. So I tried to take stress off the upper shaft. If you are not getting any stress in the upper shaft, a little adjustment should do the trick. For example, you may only need a straight adjustment with the bottom hex nuts equal.

As you know, there are a million different settings for the hanger. More than you could even try out. Whatever the case, if you get a setting which is comfortable, then you can make small adjustments from there, as time goes on, to try and target areas for stress.

>I wrapped to the base and put the hanger far back away from the head. The skin moved forward and covered about half the head, but the hanger would not grab or grip the head in any way because the hanger was still a little further back and the skin was covering the head. <

OK. The stress has to hit somewhere. If the skin is not taking the weight, the head is not taking any weight, then the lower shaft and ligs must be taking it all. One thing would be to move the hanger closer to the head. Then if it is a little less tight, or toed in a little, the hanger (front thumbs) should be able to ‘seat’ behind each side of the head.

Bigger

Well ok when I begin again I will try, but I remember trying and trying to get this but it never worked for me because it was too painful. I was going for comfort and trying to hit the ligs instead of both because I did not see it the way you are telling me now. Also the little added girth in the upper shaft and head may help, but then again that is mainly erect.

Dance