PE and the Changing Tunica

Bib wrote: “Collagenous tissues under stress have been proven to increase in density, including thickness. The tunica walls will get thicker, not thinner. That is one reason gains slow over time.”

I believe this is a crucial distinction for those who fear tunica thinning as a result of PE.

Erectile Tissue
The soft, spongy tissues of the penis (corpus cavernosa, corpus spongiosum) are what fill with excess blood during erection. Actually, the blood continues to circulate, it’s not truly “trapped” in the penis (unless we manually trap it with our hand or a cock ring, etc.). But the rate of arterial in-flow is greater than the venous drainage, hence a “hard on.”
These tissues are normally what we target in exercises like the jelq, holds, ulis, etc. - since it stands to reason that the more blood our cock can hold, the bigger our erections will be. But the spongy tissue is not that difficult to “work,” nor is it the limiting factor. Enter….

The Tunica
This is the tough, fibrous band which encircles the spongy tissue. It is dense & resistant to stretching (it has to be). Think of the tunica as a sheath, or a conduit for our spongy tissues - which are soft & swell with blood, but the tunica is what maintains erectile rigidity and shape - think of it as a “mold” into which the softer erectile tissues fill-out.
When erect, our spongy tissues are sort of a “hard on within a hard on.” We need that soft tissue for expandibility, but we also need that tough sheath for firmness & form.
I suspect that the spongy tissues of the penis are more similar between men than is the tunica. Just as some men have really thick tendons & ligaments (compared to others), I bet that some men have a much more stubborn tunica than others. This could account for some of the differences in gains - in addition to the LOT theory.

Does the Tunica Thin or Thicken
Some men have expressed a concern that PE will cause their tunicas to thin out; however, I feel that Bib is correct in saying that “….The tunica walls will get thicker, not thinner. That is one reason gains slow over time.”
Even though my penile volume has increased a significant 64% since beginning PE (6.12 x 5.2 = 13.17 ci, to 7.2 x 6.14 = 21.60 ci), my erections are actually firmer now, and they are uniform and straight.
If the tunica really was thinning out, the pressures from the swelling spongy tissues would begin to reveal deformities (bulges) in the shaft, uneven erections, etc. Also, I don’t believe there would be the same pressure buildup with the tunica - i.e., my erections would be softer as my penis increased in size (if the tunica was thinning out).
As I said, the opposite has happened for me: bigger penis = harder penis. This would not be true if the tunica were thinning or weakening.

Just want you to know I appreciate the threads like this that you have been involved in. This kind of deep examination is what we need to get to the root of growth and health.

I am perplexed by what to do about this mysterious tunica. My girth growth was immediate but my length growth is minuscule. I have a feeling that my ligaments and tunica toughened up quickly and are now sitting in defiance of my dominion over them. Now what to do?

I am about to construct a bib hanger from the plans on this website. I am following your thinking on this issue to find out which way to approach hanging. I am thinking, after a break in period, doing the reverse pyramid approach, diminishing intensity. I have a lot of 8, so I would mix OTS with BTC hanging.

How to handle a thickened tunica and ligs? How much pressure would cause growth and how much would just make them thicker and even more resistant to growth? These are my questions.

Girth, the tunica is a double-edged sword. We need it to be tough to maintain pressure (erectile hardness) & form (erectile uniformity), or we’d just have a swollen, bloated floppy erection - which we couldn’t use anyway. However, when trying to increase the size of our spongy tissues, that same tunica defies our efforts.
I also have a tough tunica (I’m the guy with huge bones & thick horse tendons, ligaments, etc. - good for weightlifting, football, etc.; bad for PE). I got some quick gains early and things have slowed for me. Don’t get me wrong, I love the added size & firmness (so does my wife), but I would like more, of course.
I would recommend to you the approach I’m following:
(1) Read (& believe) Bib’s LOT theory - especially the parts dealing with tunica stretching.
(2) Don’t neglect hot wraps - I believe that damp heat can help to loosen the tunica (temporarily), making it more yielding. I know that a good hot wrap leaves my penis really soggy & pliable.
(3) Be relentless, don’t let that tunica rest. Beat the bastard! I am becoming more of a believer in frequent, briefer workouts. There’s something about allowing the tissues to return to normal - which we don't want to do. Keep the tissues in an expanded state, force them to heal that way. Even if the volume is the same, I think the frequency is more important. In other words, if you did 300 jelqs 5 days per week, that would be 1,500 jelqs per week - a fairly decent total. But if you broke it down to abbreviated sessions, it might be 75 jelqs, 3x/day, 7 days/week. I’d try it as soon as I wake up, again during mid-day, and before bed. That way, your penis is never getting more than an 8-hour break from jelqs.
I know you can’t do a full warmup 3x/day - but maybe get a good warmup on your morning workout, or evening - either one.
And I believe this approach is even more crucial to stretching - due to plastic deformities, tissues contracting to normal, etc., etc. I think you should stretch a minimum of 3x/day - at least 10 minutes or so (but build up to it slowly). You might eventually be doing 1 hr per day, every day.
(4) Make the stretching INTENSE - no gentle little tugs - that’s a waste of time. Stretch like you’re doing a FSBPL measurement. Try to pull your penis as far as you can - just be careful about where you grip it, use powder, and keep doing circulation slaps, jelqs, etc. Pay attention to the glans (color, temperature, deformity, etc.). Focus most stretches at 10:00 or higher.
And be consistent! That is the most important approach.

The non-grip area is along the top as I look down on it, right? This is where the essential nerves live?

Yep. Also, just keep an eye on it in general. It shouldn’t become too discolored or cold. Use common sense, circulation is very important. Every couple minutes, I’d slap it around, do some jelqs, etc. Also, I don’t believe in holding a strong stretch for more than 1 minute (I mean a MAJOR pull).

Awesome, Wadzilla! My printer is now working on this thread. Thanks! :)

glad I could help man

:)

I got a question.

So when you do girth exercises does that make it harder for you to gain length?

taco,

It’s a prevailing theory - not proven, but suspected. I would say that if your length goals aren’t that much it doesn’t matter. But if you want to gain more than 2 or 3 inches, girth work might make it tougher to do so.

I’d recommend focusing on length first, then going after girth when you’re at or near your length goals (besides, working one will have some effect on the other anyway).

Common sense would suggest as much. Assuming there’s a limit to the gains made in any collagenous structure then the increase in girth will cut into the possible length gains from tunica stretching. Of course, most people tend to get their first length gains from stretching the ligs so you can gain length that way (assuming you LOT is fairly high, and the LOT theory is valid of course).

Does the tunica get thinner or thicker with PE?

IMHO both is correct… If you are working with heavy weights (short time stress, high loads) you want to achieve structural damage. Collagen fibers will tear and heal. This tissue is always stronger and thicker than before.

If you are working with low force stress (ADS, manual stretching, stretchers, milking) a realignment of collagen fibers will take place over time. So the tunica gets thinner. From a study I found somewhere in the net:

“Eight patients (age 58.5±5.3 yrs.) affected by Peyronie?s disease (…) were trained to use a mechanical penis stretcher. (…)

Results: The tunica highest thickness resulted 1.8±0.6 mm before and 1.6±0.3 mm after PS. The septum latero-lateral maximum thickness was 2.2±0.7 mm before and 1.8±0.8 mm after PS. Penile length, dorsally measured from penopubic angle to meatus, was 100.5±27.3 mm before and 104.6±22.2 mm after PS.”

There are guys like DLD, MagnumXL and others who had fantastic gains within weeks. I think you can’t achieve those gains with a “hangers tunica” (very thick and very strong). But you could achieve it with a tunica that actually gets THINNER because you are not using heavy weights. Just my 2 cents.