PE Researcher -- Seeking Interviewees for Book

I’m not testing a hypothesis a la a traditional scientific model. There’s basically no literature on PE forums or communities, so entering the research with hypotheses would be a curious decision.

The method I’m using requires me to have a clear mind, but not an empty head. Of course I have some sense of why men might do PE and how it might affect them, but I rely on the data I collect to paint the fullest and most accurate picture.

I used the method for my recent research on a fight club, published just last month: Ritual Violence in a Two-Car Garage - Contexts

Some media coverage suggested the fighters were all tech workers and they fought because they felt emasculated as desk jockeys. My interviews included questions about both assumptions, but I discovered they were false. No hypotheses, just data-driven conclusions explained using social theory.

Also, note that even with a fairly small group (200 or so), their identities are masked. I can ensure the same confidentiality for anyone interested in speaking with me about PE and Thunder’s.

Scott Melzer
Associate Professor and Chair
Department of Anthropology & Sociology
Albion College
Smelzer@albion.edu

I’m not convinced, I still see the same dogma regurgitated in that little story that has been regurgitated through the decades, if you keep teaching people that this is what the status quo is, then it becomes the status quo, you are enforcing and giving excuses for behavior that may well have instinct in its origins.

And a tiny sample of a tiny sample is intensely selective no matter how many questions you ask.

Never the less I hope you commit to this project as much as you committed to the fight club and the NRA.

I might suggest that you start with the newbie routine and start a log here on your gains, you might find it gives you a different perspective on you very minimalist approach to collecting data and the mindset of those that have and continue to gain.

Don’t get me wrong Scott (I hope you don’t mind me calling you Scott), I have nothing against you personally but I don’t think you can actually understand what you are doing unless you are doing it yourself, it’s not “just” a mans background that starts him into PE there are intricate factors that keep men doing it for years, erection quality for one, understanding of their anatomy, and of course the broad camaraderie of a place like Thunders. But you are not even going to come close to being able to understand the mind behind the man with your small quarantined group. Get involved and I don’t mean slug it out for a few rounds on someones patio, I mean actually commit to it and find where it takes you personally then you might actually be able to understand the data rather than form conclusions from books that you read and were taught from that date back decades.

Then when you have done that, stick around be part of the community here, be active in discussions, learn, teach, and enjoy the rich nature of the life here at Thunders, you may actually find yourself at home.

Behemoth — Scott’s the name on my license, so yeah, please use that. It seems like we’re agreeing to agree on the sampling issue.

I’m studying multiple PE sites in an effort to get a better sense of the members and communities. I think in-depth interviews with members and reading the forums can provide a pretty good sense of what places like Thunder’s provide its members (beyond PE).

I’ve considered doing some participant observation. So far, I’ve found that the interviews I’ve conducted with PE forum users address everything you raise (motivations, reasons for staying, camaraderie). And of course, unlike nearly every other user, my posts wouldn’t be anonymous.

More importantly, I’m interested in the pressures and expectations placed on men, and how they deal with those expectations — this isn’t a general study of Thunder’s Place or all PE sites. If I was writing a book solely on PE I’d approach the research differently (50+ interviews, participate on the forums for a year or two, etc). Instead, PE sites are one important piece of the book — I’m not attempting to comprehensively study every single aspect of the sites.

As for the biology vs. Culture arguments about men’s behaviors .. Well, I’m not sure we can hash out all the evidence and arguments here. How about I buy you a beer if you’re ever in S.E. Michigan?

Scott

Scott Melzer
Associate Professor and Chair
Department of Anthropology & Sociology
Albion College
Smelzer@albion.edu

Scott, I suggest you to surf on this forum
Life, Love and Fantasies

you’ll find some interesting material I think.

Scott,

I really like your area of focus, I think it is underrepresented in today’s literature. However, I have to agree with Marinera about the lack of stated hypothesis. I just don’t think it is possible to not have a hypothesis. Additionally, lack of information does not preclude someone from making a hypothesis. And you hint that having a hypothesis would bias your research, but I argue a properly controlled process should eliminate bias and reveal facts which you can then interpret.

I hope I am not coming off to harshly, I am passionate about PE and your work will be one of the first academic analyses into the cob webs of our little club, so I would like to see it done well.

One thing you’ll find is a great deal of methods & approaches being discussed here at TP in regards to the practice of PE itself so yeah methodology is what we’re all about. This forum is full of men thinking and reasoning their way through whatever it is they’re trying to achieve in terms of PE, relationships, sex, or life in general. There’s some of the most critical thinkers I’ve ever interacted with here at TP.

Precisely my point, when you continue to write that men do certain behavior for certain reasons, then you tend to make that the culture, and if you bring those assumptions from a very small group of men then you are creating a dogma from the minority to rule the majority. We are still stuck with narrow minded interpretations written by so called leaders in the field to this day, that people hold to be true because that is what they have been taught.

I don’t wish to derail your efforts so I’ll leave it there, and as for the beer, well I don’t drink beer as it feminises the male body, but I would take you up on a wine after all I’m all about being masculine and do enjoy a good chat.

>and as for the beer, well I don’t drink beer as it feminises the male body<

Source? Good one, I mean.

Scott,

Qualitative research seems an obvious route in for an area where there is scant understanding. As anonymous forums, in general, are a form of qualitative research for readers, what do you hope to achieve with an interview that you feel you could not achieve though study of 12 years of archived posts other than saving time and maybe restricting the field of view?

Best question yet!

Some social science geeky-ness for those of you new to that particulate party:

People with a strong preference for a demographic approach often discount the importance of case studies. There are fields where you can go all quant and garner a deep understanding. Social sciences as a whole don’t work that way. Qualitative and Quantitative Methodology are equally used in most social science disciplines with different schools of thought preferring one over the other.

Quants usually already knows what is expected from the results. They have some solid hypothesis and are gathering date to prove/disprove. On the other hand, researchers applying qualitative methodology are often doing so in the gathering preliminary data phase; before the formation of any theory beyond “hmmm… this looks interesting…”.

Any decent social scientist will bounce the 2 approaches off each other at some point.

Marinera – Thanks for the link, I’ll check it out.

Mizguy – Thanks. I think some of us are defining “hypothesis” differently. I’m using that term in the strictest scientific sense – a theory is used to develop hypotheses about the relationships between variables, and data are collected (via experiments or surveys in the social sciences) to test the hypotheses. I’m not using that approach. Of course, I bring to the project my own training and interests. I’m not an historian or biologist or psychologist .. I think that what you suggest would work well is pretty damn close to what I’m doing. (Oh, and you’re not coming off as harsh – I’m enjoying the dialogue.)

Donttazemebro – Yeah, I’m picking up on the forum’s methodology obsession! Makes sense.

Behemoth – My book tries to capture the range of men and masculinities, not a single, dogmatic standard. In other words, I’m trying to capture reality. People change, norms change, cultures change. For a sociologist, that means we’re always chasing a moving target. It also means job security! (Michigan has better breweries than wineries, but sure, wine it is.)

Scott Melzer
Associate Professor and Chair
Department of Anthropology & Sociology
Albion College
Smelzer@albion.edu

Memento — Forum posts are certainly valuable data. I see them as complementary to interview data, helping convey a clearer picture of the community and its members. I’m sure I can find forum data on more or less everything we would discuss in an interview, but it would be difficult to gather all of that information on any one forum member. There’s also something different about having a conversation with someone and trying to understand them better. I’ve found that people’s (and especially PE site members’) anonymous online identities are quite different than their actual identities. Interviews bring people to life in a way that anonymous forums don’t allow.

Iamaru — Would you mind if I outsource all future methodology questions to you? Obviously you have some training or have read on the topic. I’m enjoying the geeky discussion.

Scott Melzer
Associate Professor and Chair
Department of Anthropology & Sociology
Albion College
Smelzer@albion.edu

Hmm, I disagree that we simply differ by definition. In fact, I think you are taking the very approach you claim not to be taking.

Theory - The social pressures on men cause them to partake in manly behavior I.e gun groups, fight clubs, PE sites

Hypothesis - You won’t explicitly state.

Relationship between variables - various facts about why men pe

Collecting data - Your surveys

I guess what I have been ineffectively saying is that I don’t believe science can be done without a hypothesis. I don’t think saying “there isn’t enough data to form a hypothesis” is a legitimate excuse for not stating a hypothesis. From reading your work I could infer one, but I am not going to insult you by posting it here.

There isn’t a way to say that in a civil way?

Anyway, there is a problem here anyone can see, and I’ll try to illustrate it with an example. Let’s say I join a group who believes to have seen at least a UFO; then I say ‘Everybody in this community who wants to have a secret interview with me for a book I’m going to write down, contact me.’.

The hidden question is: do I believe those people have seen UFO, or not? If I don’t believe in UFO, I am going to give an interpretation of what interviewed say, if I do believe in UFO another interpretation. I could say ‘Well I have an open mind and I can’t know if UFO are real or not, even less if those people have seen one or not, it isn’t relevant to my inquiry.’, but that would be simply not true.

Said it straight forward, if I believe UFO are not real than it’s unlikely that I’m going to change my mind about, and anything any member of said community could say would be interpreted like the product of a deluded mind.

To be clear, I was referring to this

I guess you can write down what you think without insults, Mizguy. :)