Question for Medical Professionals....

Wad,

Despite you saying that you disagree with me, I still think I actually agree with you(!)

Maybe I’m over complicating what I’m trying to say, and there are a lot of variables here, most of which are probably irrelevant. I just don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water since pretty much everything we’re discussing here has been covered by others, and still *the way* (or our own way) hasn’t been isolated.

Though you and I had different gains and losses, and over different time frames, and are at different stages in our PE career…there are some common areas. Rather than muddy the waters further, perhaps we should make pre-supposition like: Taking a break works(?)

Maybe it doesn’t work, but lets suppose it does. How would we ‘binary chop’ the on/off intervals between us in the most effective way to arrive at some kind of result?

I started PE again yesterday after a 9 month lay off, so if my history is anything to go by, I should get around 3/8” within 3-13 days. Before starting yesterday I was 7 1/4” BPFSL by 5 1/4” girth, so lets see what happens. After I flatline, lets say I take the shortest time off that got me results (17 days) then repeat? If that fails then I can double the time off and try again.

I was reading this thread when Shiver mentioned in the post above his break of 17 days I got an idea: I’ve heard that muscle density starts to break down after 21 days when taking a break from strength training. (I know, the smooth muscle in the penis isn’t the same as the muscles you would use when working out in the gym.)

But, maybe the muscles that get ‘toughened up’ while stretching or jelqing are affected in the same way. ie: When you take a break of over 3 weeks, your smooth muscles are deconditioned to the abuse of pe workouts and they give in faster to the stresses of pulling or outward pushing of blood when you resume after a break. The longer the break, the more deconditioned the smooth muscle fiber is.

Then, there is the point of losing those temporary gains we have worked so long to achieve and you have to kind of start over to regain those. Some have said that those come back faster. I’d rather keep my temporary gains and jump back into my pe workouts as soon as possible after a 3-week deconditioning period.

I’ve taken a 2 month break from jelqing and I lost half of my 1/2” eg gains during that time. It has taken me around 4 months to gain those back, but I also gained a 1/4” in ebp length during these last 4 months.

edit: I’ve been jelqing for 10 months on and off. My breaks are usually 1 to 2 weeks, but I also took that 2-month break once.

This sounds like a reasonable approach; I hope you keep us updated about your results. In fact, after my 2-month break, 3-week gain blitz, I also “flatlined” relatively quickly. I’ve not gained a mm during the past 7 weeks. :(

Maybe it’s time to try a 3-4 week break, and see if that helps to jumpstart me. If it does, I may go on a 1-month on, 1-month off routine. Certainly I’d refine this as I proceed and, also, we have to take “cementing” those gains into account. Hey, I’m in this shit for gains, not because I *love* to PE. Just as I go to work to get paid, not to socialize with a bunch of assholes, LOL. I’m willing to try any approach that will offer gains, regardless of how “unorthodox” it may seem.

New_Member:
Maybe while it’s true of muscles as they say, it’s also true of tissue in general?

Wad:
I just looked at your PDF after you said:

Maybe we’re reading the same data differently. The way I read your data, after your break you had *gained* in bpfsl (from 7.87 to 8.19) depite the 0.02 EL loss. That’s more fuel for the ‘BPFSL preceeds EL’ fire.

Oh yeah, I forgot the BPFSL - I was mainly referring to EL. But I did mention during my break that my weinie felt very “gummy” and was more easily pulled out, with minimal tug. I took that to be indicative of the tissues deconditioning (loosening?). I’ve always agree that a BPFSL gain probably does precede an EL gain.

Redwood,

In my profession, we have to do what is call a MED (minimal erythromal dose) prior to either infrared or UV treatments. This gives us the correct amount of time to leave the person under the light. Without it the patient gets burned, with either treatment. Don’t want to go there.

Shiver,

If you will re read my first post, I said I did not know whether or not the penis has a GTO., however the same principle will apply, too much force, the body compensates and refuses to do anything. But yes, normally the GTO protect muscle.

I like these words

Wad,

Can I assume that your friend who gained nearly 4 inches did so performing only manual techniques?

Yes. And with a very basic routine: jelqs and stretches - 7 days per week. And what struck me is this - his routine was simple and with very high volume (100’s of jelqs daily) and his stretching routine was only about 10 minutes daily (although he said he was gradually upping it) and his stretches consisted of mostly straight-out pulls.

Any other relevant factors? He’s a fitness nut and he follows a careful diet, including supplementation and he’s very active.

And he made big gains (probably double the length gains I’ve made).

What kind of rests or break periods did he take? Any idea?

Since I believe there is a chemical/hormonal response which toughens the ligs, etc, I wonder if there is a chemical/hormonal alternative to deconditoning time. Women produce the hormone relaxin during pregancy which facilitates stretching.would supplementation of relaxin help our ligs decondition? Just want to keep the gains coming!

Swinglow,

I’ve seen you ask this question in a couple of threads. See post #10 in this thread: any supplements recommended for best PE gains?

I’m supposed to be babysitting, but this has gotten interesting.

There have been lots of threads on the effects on relaxin. The problem seems to be that only certain tissues have relaxin receptors and therefore respond. I don’t know whether the penis is one of these tissues (but it may be worth a try). I’ve never heard of anyone trying it; I’ve only seen people post reasons why it wouldn’t work.

I find New_Member’s point about smooth muscle to be intruiging. We usually focus exclusively on connective tissue—ligs and tunica. However, the smooth muscle interspersed among the trabeculae in the CCs may have an important effect. If the muscle is tense (or plump), it may add considerably to the structural strength of the CCs and help them to resist elongation. The smooth muscle may also be responsible for the spongy or stiff feelings in our penises, which we usually associate with level of conditioning.

I recently came back from a 10-day break from PE and noticed my dick was much softer and more supple than it was before the break. Do you think my connective tissue changed that fast? I always thought connective tissue changed very slowly. Perhaps it was the muscles that changed their conditioning and caused the newbie-like feel in my penis?

This leads me to consider whether smooth muscle relaxants might be useful with PE. Could we use Caverject, for example, not to get erections but to relax the muscles and restore a deconditioned muscle tone? Of course, I’m making a lot of assumptions, like more “muscle tone” in the smooth muscle of the CC’s makes them stiff, but I think it’s worth considering.

Modesto,

Nitric Oxide helps relax some tissues greatly if enough time is given (days/weeks), but NO in erections is usually much shorter than that so it achieves stasis (lack of nocturnal erections being one cause of gradual shrinkage). Due to the nature of the penis in it’s response to NO causing an erection, we can’t realistically use this route. Caverject might do it too, but again it causes an erection so there’s only so long you can ‘keep that up’ so to speak. Caverject might be slightly better than NO facilitators in that PGE-1 inhibits TGF-b1, which is a major factor in long term ED from priapism (not just tunical fibrosis but venous inconstrictability due to toughening). There’s much more to it than that though; Certain tissues have Interleukin promoters (notably IL-1 and IL-8) where tissues are Interleukin sensitive, that trigger a cascade of events including collagenase, elastase etc. I don’t know if these are present in our target tissues as it’s not an evolutionary necessity.

I like your thinking though Modesto, and safe to say I have a whole series of experiments lined up for the new year that are not completely unrelated to what you mention. Watch this space :D

Interesting response as usual, Shiver. I will stay tuned.