Hey again everyone!
Originally Posted by avaya1
That’s a very impressive answer. I wonder how well the experiment is currently going for you?
Much the same as it had on 8/20. I have not applied the MSP since that post; a mixture of time constraints and illness. Had the diagnosis not so closely sounded of hypochondriacism and histrionics, I’d have sworn I came down with the H1N1 flu! As sometimes the closer one comes to their goals the less driven they are to attain them (‘which proves I’m not a complete nut job,’ as memento once said), the significant improvement in coloration attained early in my trials was enough to pacify any sense of urgency. While I’m still very interested to test other OTC TGA-containing products and, even moreso, locate a highly concentrated TGA solution with as few secondary ingredients as possible, I’ve been giving serious thought to EDTA. The product comprised of pure calcium disodium EDTA I mentioned in my previous post is heading my way via FedEx. I plan to create a 50/50 solution of water and EDTA and submerge my penis for 20 minutes (arbitrary); I’ll write with greater detail once the product arrives!
Originally Posted by mbm23
What do you mean by ethyl-based?
If a solution were to contain 70% TGA, then the ethyl alcohol ‘base’ would be 30%. My intention ("base") was to indicate ethyl alcohol would be either the largest constituent of the solution or, as is the case in my proposed 70/30% (w/w) solution, the second largest constituent after the main ingredient (the one whose effect is intended). I’m probably inappropriately applying the term relative to it’s definition in chemistry jargon. :) My father is a wildly accomplished chemical engineer, and by virtue of proximity I’ve picked up a bit of the lingo. Sadly, I don’t understand most of it (haha!). The issue may be moot, though, if this company’s product gives any indication of the typically prepared TGA solution: http://www.sigm aaldrich.com/ca … =0&QS=ON&F=SPEC
Their solution mixes TGA with water; ethyl alcohol a no-no, then?
Originally Posted by mbm23
From the patent mentioned in your first post:
\"The use of formulations containing chelating agents, such as EDTA or desferroxamine (already proposed by some authors, see Meyers in 1966 and Goldman in 1992) give variable, uncertain results, likely due to their difficult diffusion through cutis, since topical way is the most preferred"
The first page of the referenced 1966 Meyers paper: http://ang.sage pub.com/cgi/pdf … extract/17/1/66
As is indicated in the opening paragraph, the aim of Meyers’ therapy is application of a topical chelator for the purpose of removing hemosiderin (right up our alley!). The following sentences are from the fourth paragraph: "Disodium ethylene-diamide tetraacetate, also designated as disodium ethylene diamide tetraacetic acid, endrate, or EDTA, is a safe chelating agent. It was applied topically in the treatment of dermatitis appearing in nickle [sic] and cobalt miners by Rostenberg and Perkins in 1951. Grant used it as a collyrium to dissolve calcified corneal opacities." "In 1954, Kurtin and Orentreich used EDTA in the chelation deactivation of nickel ion in allergic ezcematous dermatitis." Although the author does not specify exactly how effective the treatments were, one could infer from the phrasing that each application was successful since they were plainly introduced to support the author’s hypothesis. I have not researched how nickel and cobalt-caused dermal pigmentation differ in either their physical manifestations or treatment mechanisms compared to iron-caused dermal pigmentation. Intuition suggests dermal embedding of the offending elements is, physically speaking, either equal to or more deeply placed than iron. The rationale: Hemosiderin deposition occurs in the papillary dermis, the highest layer of the dermis directly below the dermal/epidermal junction. Insofar as nickel and cobalt deposit themselves in the dermis, the highest possible placement is, obviously, the papillary dermis. Whether or not they may be deposited even lower, reaching into the reticular dermis or, even lower, the subcutis (if physiologically possible), is inconsequential; so long as the placement is dermal, nickel and cobalt rest either alongside hemosiderin or below it.
OK, OK, I’ve made the point; so what? Well, so long as EDTA effectively chelates cobalt and nickel when applied topically, if the solution (most likely water-based*) is reaching low enough in the dermis to chelate the ions, and EDTA’s chelating ability of an iron complex like hemosiderin is roughly equal to that of nickel and cobalt, EDTA could prove a viable—and far simpler—means of ousting discoloration! I’ll return to this subject shortly.
Originally Posted by mbm23
This really doesn’t sound like something I’d like to place on my dick.
At least not in "[s]olutions having concentrations comprised in the 0.5-15% w/w range", as it is claimed in the patent.
Depilatory products typically contain between 3-5% TGA. (Source: Input the following into Google search, barring quotation marks: "Depilatory creams showed an average content between 3 and 5%". The first result displays the same sentence within it’s hyperlink summary, part of a science journal.) Judging by it’s strength relative to many other depilatory solutions and cremes I’ve tried throughout the years, I’d wager the MSP I use (recounted in detail in post #13) falls nearer to 5% than 3%. Perhaps the secondary ingredients are effective as buffering agents, going beyond their duty as post-depilation skin conditioners to lessen TGA-skin contact and keep the disulfide-busting action from dipping into the hair follicle (80% chance). Or, more simply, perhaps TGA in concentrations of 3-5% simply isn’t terribly sensitizing (95% chance). Yeah, I know: Most likely, both commingle to some effect. I imagine upwards of 15% TGA could get wild, and by 20% you may as well just go the route of TCA and reap the benefits of resurfacing along with discoloration elimination. Nevertheless, TGA in the quantity present in the platinum-canned MSP product is easily tolerated. While all due precautions should be taken before slathering MSP on your stuff in toto, I’m confident you’ve nothing to fear.
Originally Posted by mbm23
2. Potential structure of the compound with the trivalent iron
I assume this would be some kind of octahedral structure, with three anions of mercaptoacetate coordinating the iron cation.
What would be the chemistry of the ligand exchange (thermodynamically and kinetically)?
I assume that understanding the specifics of the chemical reaction would go some way in determining the efficacy of TGA’s hemosiderin chelation. While no chemical process can possibly transpire unperturbed in textbook, regimented causation within such a complex environment as the human body, knowing the possibility exists is still a must.
Unfortunately, I have no idea what you just said, hahaha! Experience and supposition has led me to believe there’s quite definitely something to TGA’s depigmenting activity; if we can nail down TGA’s exact relationship to hemosiderin, definitively assess it’s epithelial permeability and determine the ideal concentration suited to our purpose, we’ve done it!
Of course, it could just as well be EDTA, too. Nothing personal, TGA!
Speaking of which—hey EDTA: I really want to find a champion in you! I left the topic earlier after mentioning EDTA’s (inferenced) effectiveness for nickel and cobalt chelation bodes well for our aspiration. Hopefully EDTA’s iron-chelating activity is equal in strength to the aforementioned two; since hemosiderin finds it’s home at the highest altitude of the dermis, if we can assume EDTA can reach the dermis well enough to effectively rid of pigmentation caused by nickel and cobalt-induced dermatitis, all that remains is confirming EDTA’s iron-complexing profile. *Sigh* I know I’m taking for granted that EDTA’s effectiveness was evidenced in something as abstract as the style of an author’s syntax, but my conviction in my logic endures! The 1966 Meyers paper is available for complete review for a $32.00 fee; a bit steep, in my opinion. To be honest, it makes no difference to me anyhow. At this point, I’m so encouraged by the extent of my research that I would take part in the EDTA experimentation if even the next page of the .pdf read: "EDTA is useless when applied topically for the treatment of hemosiderin-induced varicose staining. Give it up, Bill."
Oh yes: You referenced the patent’s downplaying of EDTA’s effectiveness. "Difficult diffusion through the cutis," they say. Interestingly, in the very same article (the often referenced 1966 Meyers paper) EDTA was successful in treating dermis-oriented conditions. In addition, the phrasing of ".give variable, uncertain results." contains not only two nebulous adjectives, but implies by the one, "variable," that there were positive results to accompany the negative. Inasmuch as EDTA is gentle and unlikely to cause harm by topical application, could a fitting strategy be to immerse your penis in a high-concentration EDTA/water solution as often and for as long as possible? If one wishes to maximize results and hasten resolution by experiencing as many effective episodes of topical chelation as possible, such would make sense.
I don’t enjoy relying on faith when the possibility of assuredness is always lingering around the corner. Faith implies an aspect of hope, which is expectedness without an idea of causation. Assuredness is expectedness with a firm idea of causation; while you can be assured and still end up being wrong, your former conception of the truth (before amending) held true to valid modes of logic. On the other hand, faith implicitly relies on an ideated result without a causal mode of logic. As much as I’d love for Godzilla to be real, the mode by which he could exist is not an explanation I can provide logically. Thus, it’s just a hope, and a fantastical one at that.
I hope TGA turns out to be discoloration’s swan song. I really hope EDTA proves the super-simple alternative to a depilatory system. I know natural penis enlargement—some jelqs, a few manual Ulis, and a bit of downward and upward manual stretching—gives me a larger penis. :)
Thanks for the responses—talk to you all later!
Bill
