Hey Bib... Fatigue and limiting factor questions

I recall you posting before that it is best to use as heavy a weight you can comfortably hang until reaching fatigue, they dropping the weight to continually stress the tissue until you need to move onto the next limiting factor, whatever one determines that is. Of course, this was before your LOT theory, which I have been following.

My LOT is around 7 currently, and based on that I have been concentrating on tunica stretching in upward angles. I am now focusing straight up towards my chin with my shaft as close to my body as possible, as it really seems to focus on the septum. Since I have little gain potential left from lig stretching, it makes sense that the tunica is where I need to concentrate for future length gains.

Assuming my LOT doesn’t rise appreciabley to once again become a factor for length gains, once I break down the tunica, particularly the septum, by using as much force as possible, I should continue to focus on stressing it with whatever force necessary to keep it stretching in the right direction. Based on all of this, the only limiting factor I should have is my tunica/septum, right?

Also, assuming I remain diligent in stressing these tissues, how long in your experience does it take for them to get stronger and more resistant to continued stretching? Is overnight long enough for them to rebuild and make the job that much more difficult?

Thanks.

RB,

>Assuming my LOT doesn’t rise appreciabley to once again become a factor for length gains, once I break down the tunica, particularly the septum, by using as much force as possible, I should continue to focus on stressing it with whatever force necessary to keep it stretching in the right direction. Based on all of this, the only limiting factor I should have is my tunica/septum, right?<

Well, the tunica will be the general limiting factor. But there will be millions of individual limiting factors within the tunica, each with the capacity to provide their micrometer of gain. Is this what you mean, or am I missing something, as usual?

>Also, assuming I remain diligent in stressing these tissues, how long in your experience does it take for them to get stronger and more resistant to continued stretching?<

It is a continuous process. For each failure of the collagenous tissue, there is a repair. For each repair, it is usually stronger than the original tissue. Usually, unlesss it is a massive tear, the tissue heals back in relatively the same position, length. But if the stresses are a relatively continuous traction, they do not have this opportunity, and the entire structure becomes longer, or bigger.

I read an article or research study that described the after failure situation in the collagenous tissues as sort of a crinelation (sp), where the tissues were microscopically folded upon themselves. In normal healing, these damaged tissues bond together, within a collagenous matrix, in effect keeping the overall tissue structure the same length, if not shorter, and after healing, making them stronger. With repeated stresses, these microscopic areas, in the process of healing, are retorn. If the stress is adequate, the stress not only keeps the tissues elongated, but creates new tears.

>Is overnight long enough for them to rebuild and make the job that much more difficult?<

The repair process begins almost, if not actually, immediately. The question is, are you able to provide the stress within X amount of time to reopen the tears. In the majority of cases, I would think you could do this within a couple of days, if not a week or more.

The above is one reason I always liked hanging. You can always quantify the amount of stress, and can be relatively certain when and if you are providing the amount of stress needed for gains by the level of fatigue.

Good topic. I am not sure I covered what you are looking for. If not, just ask more questions.

Bigger

*Well, the tunica will be the general limiting factor. But there will be millions of individual limiting factors within the tunica, each with the capacity to provide their micrometer of gain. Is this what you mean, or am I missing something, as usual? *

I meant that if one is concentrating on the tunica/septum, no other angle of attack other than straight up is really necessary until the ligs/LOT elongate/rise to the point of taking some of the stretching stress, right?

As for continual stress, as you know I don’t have the time nor privacy to hang. However, I’ve been trying to emulate the hanging concept as best I can by manual stretching. In the mornings, as the wife gets ready upstairs and the kids are eating breakfast, I can usually get in a 15-20 minute stretching session. When one hand tires, I switch, and shake the shaft when the head starts to turn blueish to encourage circulation. Then througout the day at work I do 7-8 5 minute stretch sessions. Later at home as privacy allows, I’m usually able to get in another 30-60 minutes of stretching. As I lay in bed at night, I typically can stealth stretch another 5-15 minutes right next to the wife.

All in all, I’m probably getting 60-150 minutes of stretching per day, spread throughout the day. Hopefully this approach will let me continually stress and elongate the tissues before they adapt too much and stagnate progress. What do you think?

RB,

>I meant that if one is concentrating on the tunica/septum, no other angle of attack other than straight up is really necessary until the ligs/LOT elongate/rise to the point of taking some of the stretching stress, right?<

That is correct. However, there are an unlimited number of angles of stretch above the LOT. Each one will impact different areas of the tunica.

>As for continual stress, as you know I don’t have the time nor privacy to hang. However, I’ve been trying to emulate the hanging concept as best I can by manual stretching.<

That is fine. As long as you can provide the stresses needed to tear or re-tear, you are doing some good.

>All in all, I’m probably getting 60-150 minutes of stretching per day, spread throughout the day. Hopefully this approach will let me continually stress and elongate the tissues before they adapt too much and stagnate progress. What do you think?<

I have no doubt that this will work, as long as you are able to provide the lbs of stress needed. Are you reaching any level of fatigue?

Bigger

I think I am, but with fatigue being so hard to put into words, who knows?

I’ve been hitting many angles above 9 to stress the tunica, but currently feel like the septum is my limiting factor, and I feel the most stress on it when pulling straight up towards my chin with all I got. I just started focusing on this angle in the past two days, so I’m guessing it may take some time to fatigue it.

By fatigue, do you mean the stretched tissue feels like if you stretch it any farther it may tear? If so, I’ve gotten to that point using other angles of attack, but eventually even that feeling stops, as I feel like they’ve stretched as much as possible in those angles and the septum is coming into play as the limiting factor.

Awesome thread guys, thanks for keeping it on the forum! :thumbs:

Bump for Bib…

Bib, I have some questions in my post above (in case you don’t see it due to this post), but wanted to add the following observations.

This is my 4th or 5th day of intense straight up towards my chin tunica/septum stretching. I feel like I’m getting somewhere, as it doesn’t seem to require as much force be applied to get that tingling stretching feeling in my shaft.

On the tingling, I assume that is the creation of micro tears. I get this pretty good for the first few minutes of each stretching session, then they taper off as the stretches are held, even if more force is applied. Is this normal? I assume the shaft can only stretch so much at a time. If so, does it make sense to hold the stretch for an extended time past the point where the tingling is no longer felt?

Based on your hanging experiences, did you feel this tingling during your entire 20 minute session, or did it taper off as mine does. If you felt it the entire time, do you think that’s indicative of my applying too much force initially? Would I be better off applying just the level of force that allows the tingling to continue throughout the entire stretching session? I’m concerned that too much force could be making my tunica/septum stronger before longer and become more stretch resistant to future efforts. Similar to heavy weights/short duration vs. moderate weights/extended duration hanging.

RB,

> I think I am, but with fatigue being so hard to put into words, who knows?<

Soreness, or the lack of ability to handle a given stress. Do you have any level of soreness at the end of the day?

>By fatigue, do you mean the stretched tissue feels like if you stretch it any farther it may tear?<

No, fatigue is either soreness, or a slight discomfort much as if you did a high intensity weight lifting workout.

>On the tingling, I assume that is the creation of micro tears. I get this pretty good for the first few minutes of each stretching session, then they taper off as the stretches are held, even if more force is applied. Is this normal?<

I can not compare this with my experience, because I would not describe any of the feelings I had while hanging as a ‘tingling’. During the day, as more hanging minutes built up, my shaft would become weaker and less able to handle the stress. There was no pain involved, just a solid understanding that the stress was too much. Then, I would have to reduce the weight and therefore the stress.

It sounds as if you are saying you are able to handle more stress as the day goes on. If your shaft is not telling you that the stresses are becoming too much, then perhaps there is not enough stress.

>I assume the shaft can only stretch so much at a time. If so, does it make sense to hold the stretch for an extended time past the point where the tingling is no longer felt?<

I really have no idea about “hold the stretch for an extended time past the point where the tingling is no longer felt”. I do not agree that the shaft can only stretch so much at a time. The amount of stretch is governed by many things. The first being the amount of time that the ligs require to squeeze out fluid before reaching the marginal stretch. Then, after the marginal stretch is acheived, the strength of the next limiting factors all along the shaft.

>Based on your hanging experiences, did you feel this tingling during your entire 20 minute session, or did it taper off as mine does.<

No, first, I did not feel a tingling. Second, as the twenty minute set progressed, I felt much more stress. Many times, I would have to cut a set short because there was simply too much.

>If you felt it the entire time, do you think that’s indicative of my applying too much force initially?<

I have no idea. We do not seem to have experienced the same things.

>Would I be better off applying just the level of force that allows the tingling to continue throughout the entire stretching session?<

You want to apply the amount of force needed to bring about fatigue, as early in your session as possible, and then continue to apply a lesser stress while in that fatigued state.

>I’m concerned that too much force could be making my tunica/septum stronger before longer and become more stretch resistant to future efforts.<

No. It is the early max stress that produces the breaks in the next limiting factors and cause fatigue. Then the reduced stress works on the usually, less strong, next limiting factors. The additional strength in the tunica and septum come about mainly from the healing process. As long as you continue to apply stress, and do not allow the tissues to heal in a totally retracted state for a long time, you will acheive gains.

Over time, your penis will become stronger, no matter what, unless you take an extended break. That is why guys find that they have to continually increase the amount of weight hung in order to continue to see gains. Or take an extended break and start over. Why do many hangers see good gains at five pounds or less during the early part of their career, and then a year or two later, they require twenty pounds to see a lesser gain? Also, it is interesting that they can easily stand this huge increase in the amount of weight hung. Their penis’ are stronger.

Bigger

Ok, just completed a session, here’s what I think is going on-

As I mentioned above, I have a high pain tolerance. It is hard for me to pay any attention to being “sore”. When I started my session, pulling upwards VERY hard with a firm grip, I feel the “tingling” develop along my entire shaft. I guess some would call it a soreness, but nothing that prevents me from working through it. As I maintain the pulling pressure, the tingling gradually dissipates, but perhaps it is actually soreness that I am growing used to, so it no longer registers as “soreness”, or at least to a lessor extent.

When I’ve completed the session, I continue to feel a lingering mild tingling/soreness sensation, but again, it isn’t anything that will prevent me from going right back at it.

Based on this, would you recommend I continue to apply as much force as I can comfortably manage once I feel the strong tingling/force, or back off and use less pressure, which assumes I am reaching fatigue as you describe it?

Bib, had a thought… Did you feel the same fatigue when you were using the uli thing and working girth?

I get the same general tingling sensations when I clamp off and get fully puffed up. Not a pain but I guess some might call it soreness, and it gradually subsides as the inflation is maintained, much like what I’m experiencing as reported above…

One other thing… :)

Do you think that for a person with a LOT of 7:30, the ligs could come into play at a straight up towards the chin stretching angle and take some of the stress once the tunica has stretched a bit? I’m wondering if perhaps I need to get my LOT down to 6…

RB,

>But if targeting the tunica in a straight up the body angle, the ligs shouldn’t come in to play, right?<

I should not have used the word ligs, but rather collagenous tissue. Either the ligs or tunica will require a bit of time to reach the marginal stretch. That point at which, when exceeded, will result in the breaking of bonds and an eventual gain.

>I would suspect there has to be some limit to the level of stretch the shaft can take at a time, otherwise we could be much much longer after a stretching session, which I don’t believe is the case.<

You are referring to a measureable gain. I am referring to the millions, or rather billions of loci where a breaking of a bond can contribute to an eventual gain, possibly far into the future.

>Also, in the absense of healing, I would think the tissues would reach the point of injury. I’m wondering if I’m just getting to this point rapidly, and staying there? <

I do not know what this means.

>How long do you recon a break should be for the tunica/septum to lighten up and again react to normal stretching pressures? Did you encounter getting too strong and taking a break while you were chasing length?<

I always think of the atrophy that occurs when a cast is used to allow the mending of a broken bone for six weeks or more. It is not the some, but a month or two should be enough to see some difference.

>As I mentioned above, I have a high pain tolerance. It is hard for me to pay any attention to being “sore”. When I started my session, pulling upwards VERY hard with a firm grip, I feel the “tingling” develop along my entire shaft. I guess some would call it a soreness, but nothing that prevents me from working through it. As I maintain the pulling pressure, the tingling gradually dissipates, but perhaps it is actually soreness that I am growing used to, so it no longer registers as “soreness”, or at least to a lessor extent. <

But when you are through for the day, do you feel any soreness? When you get an erection, is it sore at all? It is probably hard to quantify, especially if you have a high pain tolerance. But you should be getting some feedback from your unit, that a controlled damage has taken place.

>When I’ve completed the session, I continue to feel a lingering mild tingling/soreness sensation, but again, it isn’t anything that will prevent me from going right back at it. <

So you have never reached total fatigue? That point at which you simply think, “fuck this”, and quit for the day, unable to take anymore stress?

>Based on this, would you recommend I continue to apply as much force as I can comfortably manage once I feel the strong tingling/force, or back off and use less pressure, which assumes I am reaching fatigue as you describe it?<

I would recommend you use the amount of force which will bring about fatigue and FORCES you to lower the force. IOW, why lower the amount of stress if you are not reaching fatigue anyway?

Look at it this way. At a certain level, the stress is going to change the tissues. Usually, when these tissues are changed, they let you know about it by causing pain (too much), or soreness. If you are not feeling anything, the stresses probably are not high enough to cause changes in the tissues. Different people are different. But usually, your body will not let you go too far in tissue manipulation.

>Bib, had a thought… Did you feel the same fatigue when you were using the uli thing and working girth?<

Surely. Sometimes to a greater extent than with hanging.

>Do you think that for a person with a LOT of 7:30, the ligs could come into play at a straight up towards the chin stretching angle and take some of the stress once the tunica has stretched a bit? I’m wondering if perhaps I need to get my LOT down to 6…<

For the vast majority of guys with an LOT of 7:30, I doubt that the ligs come into play at all hanging or stretching straight up.

Bigger

*So you have never reached total fatigue? That point at which you simply think, “fuck this”, and quit for the day, unable to take anymore stress?*

Never, and I have gained 3.5” in BPEL…

I did notice some lingering soreness over the weekend, but I have never ever gotten to the point referenced above…

I’ll try really hard this week and see what happens.