Testing LOT Theory

This means, by the way, that we should change the standard measuring method.

Introducing the TPSMM 2.0 (Thunder’s Place Standard Measuring Method 2.0):

Take hard ruler, extend from pubic bone along the penis angle. Now rotate the ruler along it’s length axis 90 degrees, so that the scribed section of the ruler is against the upper side of the shaft, along the middle (makes for easier reading). Now the ruler will not be able to slip in further down the p.s. bone (illusory gains due to lig lengthening) but will rest against the outer most part of the p.s. Maybe not as fun a measurement as the old one, but changes will be accurate over time, since the p.s. isn’t moving.

MM,
This is a very thorough thread and does raise a LOT of questions. :)

Anyway, as you’ve stated yourself, it’s also possible that the assumptions of your simulator are wrong; not enough is known (but certainly no reason to not ask questions).

Regarding the LOT Theory, I never really used it to guide my training. I regarded it as helpful, curious, perhaps a forecaster of lig gains, etc. But, like you, I’ve never thought that *huge* lig gains were possible; for good length gains, the tunica would have to pitch in.

I think 6:00 stretching is very easy - just grab your penis, even all of it if you want - and pull downward. I think all PE’ers should incorporate some of this into their routine. But I’m a firm believer in dual fulcrum stretching (A-stretches, V-stretches…mods, such as momento’s bracing a small jar against his sack then pulling over top & down, etc.). These really take the (weaker) ligs out of the picture & help to focus concentrated stresses on the tunica.

I still hold out some hope for Bundled Stretches (I’ve experimented with them & felt deep stresses - not simply the skin twisting - when I did them), but I’m not too comfortable with the rather uncontrolled nature of tornsional stretching.

However, regarding potential gains from “pulling out the inner penis,” I have to disagree with you. You stated that you felt that no more than 0.2” from this was possible. I am certain that I’ve experienced more than that. Whether we’re talking about pubic hair climbing higher up the shaft, or the “tree roots” syndrome some guys get (I’ve experienced both of those situations), its possible to visually “see” this.

I have hairs noticeably higher up my shaft, and the base of my penis clearly looks different than pre-PE (not just wide, but almost terraced-looking - different from the rest of my shaft, even just a 1/2” above).

I believe I’ve managed to “draw out” about 1/2 inch (or damn close to that). Like you, however, I think guys who are imagining 2” from this are delusional. I’m not even sure if 1” is possible (I tend doubt it; however, I’m sure I got 1/2”, and I doubt that I’m some freak of nature). So, possibly 1/2 to 1 inch, and no more.

Since most guys here are looking for more than an extra inch EL, we clearly need to focus our attention on the tunica, not the ligs. Out of my total 2” EL gains, maybe 25% of that came from lig work - the other 75% came from jelqing & tunica work.

Great article, nonetheless.

Hey, Wad. Thanks for commenting. I think the reason your hair is creeping up your shaft can be explained simply by the fact that your shaft as a whole has grown, but your skin has not kept up. The skin on the shaft is very loosely adhered to the underlying tissues. It may not be adhered at all, a fact that makes dry jelqing possible. As the shaft grows, it pulls the skin forward. Scrotal skin and lower abdominal skin get recruited to cover the new real estate.

It’s not that the base alone has grown, or that inner penis has come out. It’s that the shaft as a whole, inner and outer, has grown, and you’re trying to fit a small sock on a bigger foot.

As for the other structures you see, some might be the facia under the new skin that has been recruited. Some might be adaptive changes in response to hanging. We know that hanging increases base girth. But I’ve also seen from my own MRI that girth under the pubic bone is actually smaller than elsewhere. Thus, hanging is not pulling the thick inner penis out, since the inner penis is thin. A better explanation, I think, is that hanging causes the base of the penis to thicken, perhaps as a defense mechanism to adapt to the applied stress.

I agree with you 75%! And thanks!

Modesto,

What is the name of the two parallel ligs that I feel running down the dorsal side of my shaft. They feel like they attach to the center of my PB and run almost all the way out to my glans.

I’m trying to palpate and understand what exactly is in there.
Amazing thread by the way.

Any help would be appreciated.
Shunga

I think I have the same question: there are two very strong, tendon-like ligs on either side of the shaft that are attached very low and far back on either side of the PS. I haven’t seen them represented in any anatomy drawing. I’m very curious to know what they are called. They feel like the main limiting factor when I stretch.

EXACTLY!

There are no tendons or ligaments in the visible shaft of the penis. The two corpora cavernosa share a common wall, called the septum, that some guys can feel. It runs down the center of the shaft above the corpus spongiosum. It is tunica material and should not be any more or less stretchable than any other part of the tunica, although some guys swear it is causing them problems.

What WestLa said.

There are no tendons in the penis, officially, but the structures you’re talking about can sure feel a lot like tendons when you try to stretch.

The culprit, I believe, is the “dorsal thickening” of the tunica. Check the wiki under “tunica” and you should find more information about it. The dorsal thickening is a thick, dense band of connective tissue on the dorsal side of the tunica that runs the length of the outer shaft from the pubic bone forward. It’s thinner in the middle than on the sides, to make room for the dorsal vein and other blood vessels and nerves. This gives it the impression of two separate “tendons.” Some of the fibers of the dorsal thickening actually originate from the crura (separate “legs” of the corpora cavernosa) deep in the body. Others originate from the suspensory ligament. The two structures fuse together near the pubic bone to form this mother of all limiting factors.

Lots of guys mistake the septum for the dorsal thickening, and they are very close to each other. The big difference is that the septum consists of very few lengthwise fibers, so its resistance the stretching is not really impressive. The dorsal thickening is a whole different beast, however, and that can certainly be the limiting factor to those of us pursuing length gains.

Thank you Westla and Modesto! Very informative thread indeed.

After more careful investigation and palpation, I think you nailed it here. V stretches and fulcrum work seem to hit this dorsal thickening the best for me. Slow and steady wins the race.

Shunga

Had lengthening surgery where ligs was cut so now I’m longer out erect pointing down than pointing straight away from my body. Do I still need to stretch ligs in hanging or should I just do over the shoulder in order to get gains when pointing straight out away from my body? I guess lot doesn’t count for me or does it? Thank you. By the way. Have not started hanging yet. Looking for a hanger or will make one shortly.