Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

Various reposts

Various reposts

Time vs. intensity.

The silence to this oft asked question is because the amount of time and the intensity of your work depends on you. No one can give you that information except yourself. Intensity and time are inversely correlated. As the intensity of the work goes up the amount of time you can withstand that intensity goes down (and vice versa). Your own particular physiology is correlated with time and intensity. The degree of fatigue on any particular day is a factor.

Some questions to ponder:

How much time do you have to devote to PE?

How quickly, in general, do you recover from the work?

Are you prone to injury?

Do you suffer from skin irritation?

Most on this board have started slow, at low intensity, and worked their way up to the maximum time they have allotted for PE. Then, they work on increasing the intensity of the work during that allotted time. In general, the greater the time and intensity, the greater the gains, allowing of course for appropriate rest time for recovery.

Hope this helps,



I have some questions about hanging and maximizing my time and efforts. I’ve noticed that hanging weights in different directions limits the amount of weight and causes stresses that are unique for that “posture.”

Currently, I only have the time and energy to hang 5 days per week and then for only 3 sets of 20 minutes and yet my ligs in my pube area and the main lig in my cock are sore. That being the case, what would give me the best/most efficient workout for such a limited schedule? Right now I hang for 2 sets of 20min (16lbs) straight down and 1 set of 20min (10lbs) BTC

I also have a question about how a certain hang directions stress my member. Let’s say I was going to hang a certain way, and only that way, for the next year what would my results probably be?

What would happen if I hung only straight down while standing every time?

What would happen if I hung over the shoulder every time?

What would happen if I hung only between the cheeks every time?

Thanks for you patience and sharing your knowledge.



There are several ways to look at these questions. One is the practical, day-to-day, occurrences. Another is the physical changes. Then there are the straight engineering factors. All have to be considered.

Think of the pubic area from a strictly engineering point of view. The tunica, which surrounds the blood cavities, is very tough (hard rubber) and long. It is anchored in the body, close to the prostate. There are different amounts of penis, and therefore tunica held within the body. This is held in by the ligaments attached to the pubic bone (fan shaped) and the tunica on the shaft. Almost like a boom on a crane when erect. The ligaments are like rope bundles. Some of the strands are long, and some shorter. The shorter the fiber, the more stress that fiber takes in an erection. The penis is anchored firmly within the body.

Also in the system are blood vessels (plumbing) and nerves (communications). The goal is to pull out as much tunica as is possible (easy, fast gains) by stretching the ligaments, and also to stretch the tunica and associated structures (harder gains). These other structures, CC, CS, blood vessels, nerves, skin, etc, all are easily stretched. The limiting factors are the tunica and ligaments.

Another goal is to stretch the tough infrastructure without damaging the plumbing or communications. The blood vessels are tough (tear resistant), but easily stretched. The only problem associated with them is the fact that they become narrower as they are stretched, thereby limiting blood flow. The nerves are easily stretched and also easily broken, but also easily regenerated over time. One good reason for taking things slow is to give the nerves time to regenerate. As long as there are small gaps or tears in the nerves, they have no problem rebuilding. When the gaps become large is when one experiences a loss of feeling.

The tunica is fairly consistent, tough, and slow to stretch. It takes time and perseverance.

The ligs vary in toughness. You may have several short, but thin fibers, which are easily broken and/or stretched. This will give fast gains. Or you may have short thick fibers, which are hard to break or stretch immediately (tough gainers). Once these short thick fibers are broken, gains may be easy. Then later, the longer fibers come into play. Or I should say, as the shorter ones are broken or stretched, the longer ones increasingly come into play. As time goes on, more and more fibers are involved at the same time during the stretch. Short ones break or stretch, and the next shortest take more of the load. This is why gains eventually slow down for everyone.

This is also one reason why it takes increasingly higher weights to achieve gains. It is also why some people talk about the ligs becoming tougher. They are somewhat tougher, because they become thicker as they heal. But more than that, each fiber becomes more equal with the other fibers as time goes on, they increasingly resist the stretch in harmony. Then, one must become more refined in his attack. Vary the angles even more. For example: After hanging for several months, a good stress is to hang under each leg, over the side edge of the chair, while seated in an almost BTC position. This greatly stresses each SIDE of the ligament bundle, dividing and conquering. Then, a normal BTC hang will stress the middle of the bundle. The sides are already longer from the side stretch. So the middle then has to take the load. This is just one example.

Each micron of gain is dependent upon breaking the next limiting factor. That next limiting factor may be large or small. This is an argument for going up in weight quickly. Break or stretch each limiting factor before the preceding limiting factor has time to heal and become tougher. But it is a balancing act between gaining and being safe. The relative soreness or fatigue in an area is an indication of what has transpired. If you are very sore in an area, you have pushed it far enough. You need to work on another area for a while (a day or two).

Changes in the limiting factors are also a reason you have to go down in weight from time to time. Your current limiting factor may be one or more tough thick ligament fibers for example. Then, as your maximum weight goes up, one day these fibers fail. When they do, you achieve gains, but also incur the next limiting factors. These next limiting factors may be thinner, or fewer, and require somewhat less weight to break or stretch. That is why from time to time, you just cannot hang the maximum, at a certain angle, that you could previously.

Look at a broad example: You have the tunica hanging straight down. Then on top of that, the ligs are attached, also hanging straight down. Now apply a stress to them. Which structures take the stress first? It depends on their individual lengths. For most (if not all), it is the bundle of ligaments. The shorter ones first. So when hanging straight down or BTC, the tunica may not be affected at all, taking none of the stress. Only the ligaments. Now, as the angle rises, say to hanging straight out, the ligaments take less and less stress and the tunica takes more and more stress. So then when hanging straight up (over the shoulder), most (if not all) will have all the stress on the tunica and the anchor points within the body, and none on the ligaments. Further, hanging over the legs will stress the sides of the tunica, and the anchor points within the body on each side.

The tunica and each individual fiber of the ligaments all have different load capacities. All are subject to a maximum load factor, above which they fail. When they fail, they either stretch or are broken. In either case, the body subsequently repairs them. This repair time varies between fibers and individuals. The key is to control the damage done to the structures and allow time for repair. In order to do this most efficiently, the best way would be one at a time. This is not possible, but the varying angles of stress will allow the most efficient method of stressing individual fibers and therefore achieving the goals.

So now, we know the problems, and what needs to be done. How is the best way to go about it? It depends on the individual and what has transpired before. If you are very sore in the pubic bone area (the ligaments), it is time to work on the tunica and anchor points. This means over the shoulder and legs or straight out, 90 degrees from the body. If the tunica (shaft) and area above the testicles is sore, it is time for straight down or BTC.

The above is very generalized. There are subcategories of stresses that can be applied to give the most efficient types of work.


Thanks for the tip. One thing I am still concerned about is the fairly rapid
discolouration of the head, especially last night when I finally hung 7.5 lbs.
I think it was not more than 10 to 15 minutes that it was at the point where I
felt I need to dismount the hanger. I’m not sure how this will translate as I
go to even higher weights, but we’ll see. It would seem to require even more
tightening which may accelerate discolouration during hanging.



Actually, the hanger is designed to allow for blood flow, even when very tight. The problem with lack of blood flow to the head comes when the hanger is too loose and slides too far down to the head and cuts off all blood flow to the head. I probably have not made that clear.

Lets say you want to hang 7.5 lbs. Also, let’s say the area impacted by the hanger on the head is 1.5 square inches, and the shaft takes none of the force. That would be 5 lbs. per sq. inch on the head alone. This is enough force to cut off most of the blood to the head.

Now, let’s say you tighten enough to where none of the pressure is on the head, only on the shaft. The shaft well covers 9.36 inches. At the same 7.5 lbs., that would require 0.80 lbs. per sq. inch. on the shaft. Quite a difference.

The hanger has six lanes designed for blood flow. The veins and arteries within the penis have the ability to direct blood flow where needed. Just because the pressure is high on the internal structures does not mean that blood flow is restricted, as long as these low pressure areas are available.

I do not want to attempt to evaluate the degree of discoloration. You decide when it is too much. But I have hung with as much as forty lbs. without too much discoloration. What I would describe as a dark red. Not purple. When it goes to dark purple, you either have on too much weight, or the hanger is too close to the head, or it is not tight enough.

Finally, After you first put on the hanger and tighten a little, hold the hanger and pull out the head as far as you can while tightening the rest of the way. This will help capture more internal structures for the hanger to attach to. Hope this helps.

Uli’s vs. pumping


Great questions. You must realize, I have a great fault. That is; I always assume that people know more than they might. This is not their fault, but mine. If I say something you do not understand, just ask about it. I will try to explain as best I can.

You can concentrate on the btc angle. However, not all the time. First, you can get benefits from the other angles, and also, you will quickly become over fatigued if you just do this. I hate to use another poor analogy, but it is much like bending a wire until it breaks. You are simply stressing structures in different ways and directions. Each will lend benefits. Divide and conquer. How do you tear a large phone book in half? One page at a time.

Fluids. Great question. These fluids are mainly water. This water, for the most part, comes from the blood. When you place any part of the human body under pressure or vacuum, these fluids will move through semi-permeable membranes in order to attempt to alleviate the pressure or vacuum. These membranes encompass cells and groups of cells. Most blood constituents are too large to move across these membranes except the water.

When under a vacuum, such as with a pump, the inner chambers may inflate with blood. But the water is quickly PULLED through the membranes to attempt to neutralize the vacuum. The inner CC pressure will go down as this water buildup becomes more and more at cross-purposes with the inner blood pressure. IOW, the fluids are pushing both ways: ultimately against the outer skin and inner tunica. Therefore, no tunica pressure.

With ULI’s, the pressure originates within the chambers of the penis and acts upon the tunica which holds them very rapidly and directly. I define the marginal interior stretch as that inner pressure above the normal erection pressure. The higher the pressure, the greater the stretch on the tunica. This pressure is what causes the water to be PUSHED through the membranes. The inner pressure can be extremely high until the layers between the skin and tunica become very swollen. At that point, the skin will also stretch some laterally. But it will eventually counteract the interior pressure and provide an equal outward force against the tunica, neutralizing the inner force you produce. But for a very long time, there can be great lateral force on the interior of the tunica before any swelling can compensate.

Of course, you have the option of not reaching this point. With a ten minute set, followed by light milking, you should not have much fluid buildup. Many sets will probably show some swelling, but it should not be enough to stop the stretch of the tunica.

Further, the head is an extension of the lower chamber (CS). It does not have the additional layers of tissue or a normal, shaft type skin covering. That is why the head does not show much swelling from fluid buildup. There are no semi permeable membranes between the chambers in the head and the outer skin. The swelling is almost all from inner blood pressure. This is why with pumping, you run the risk of blisters. This is simply fluid trying to get out and neutralize the vacuum. There is no stretchable shaft skin to accept the water.

Of course, the one all encompassing trump card in this game of physics is the biological ability to heal. When the structures have been stretched to the max, they do not recede immediately. But rather slowly. During this time, the body sends in the medics to repair the overstressed areas. The structures are repaired in their newly distended form. Not back to the original condition. That would be impossible. Realize however, that this is a slow process and one, which by its very nature must occur over a long period of time.

This is also the mechanism by which the penis becomes stronger, either by hanging, or by milking or ULI’s. It also explains the increase in mass.

It is the tendency in biology, when something is injured, for the body to overcompensate in fixing the damaged part. This is why a bone when healed is stronger at the fracture (darker when x-rayed). Or scar tissue is obviously thicker and more course than normal tissue. It is why knots occur after pulled muscles are healed. Calluses on the hands or feet.

A little complicated, but really just common sense.



How do I tell if I am overworking? After my workouts, I only feel a little soreness in the ligs when I push against my pubic bone. Other than that just a little tenderness in the skin.
That is almost exactly the way I would describe how you should feel after work. You should also be fatigued in the shaft from time to time. Overworking would be hanging at a higher weight, having erection failure, head problems (numbness), or any PAIN in the area after work.

There are times when i’ll hook up 10-12lbs and I feel like I couldn’t add another pound(usually from skin pulls or pressure points) but after I finished I hardly feel worked out enough . Then there are the times that I’ll put on 20-25lbs and it feels very comfortable and bearable and I get a good stretch. I know I moved up rather quickly but to get any kind of worked out feeling I need the heavy weight.
First the feelings about how much you can handle are not unusual. I should have asked if you had gained anything lately, or if you are on a plateau.

I have not talked about this much because it is an inexact science, and I have only had the one experience. But the first thing you have to do in hanging is drive toward stressing the areas which benefit (gain)from the stresses. The skin is easy to stretch, but can be limiting until it is. The area where you wrap and where the hanger is attached will affect how much the skin is stretched.

Concerning the ligs and shaft, you may have to hang heavier weight during a period in order to break through a set of LFs. Then you may not be able to hang this max weight again for a day or two or even longer. A lower weight may give good stresses for this period because with the tougher LFs out of the way, the subsequent LFs are not as tough. Realize, there are many of these situations in microareas all through the ligs and shaft.

In talking with others, it seems that the need to lower weight is a good sign. Described as an ‘electric’ feeling, it appears that good stretches occur during these periods. The key is not to push things and overdo. When you simply cannot hang your max weight, or there is discomfort, move down. If you have to move down to less than one half your max weight, then stop in order to avoid overstress. Do not fight it.

Using heat will insure you are stressing pliable tissues and help you to avoid overstress. It will also give more results with an equal amount of work.

Realize also when you change angles of hang, this will present new stresses that will require consideration of the amount which you can use. The max stretch I found was to have my butt over the edge of the chair with the weight hanging straight down, penis between my balls, and between my cheeks. Then I did lower ab crunches, pulling the weight up. Oh lawd!! This is a very advanced technique and must be worked up to. Lower weight MUST be used.

The only one who knows how much weight to use is the individual hanger. There are times when lower weights for longer periods is more beneficial than heavy weight for shorter periods. I found I could usually hang my max weight in the mornings up until 11:00-12:00 a.m.. Then I would have to hang progressively lighter weight into the afternoon. Generally, if I wanted to hang some at night, I would have recovered enough from the days work to hang my max weight for short periods. Sometimes, I would go several days where I could not hang my max. The key is whether or not you can feel the stress. If you can’t, then change because you are probably wasting your time.

Finally, you should try and make sure you are not limited in weight from hanger attachment problems. Pinching or any pain from the hanger is counterproductive and can skew your perception of the amount of stress. As I always say, the best thing you can do in PE is become attuned to what you are feeling. Learn to read these feelings; know exactly where they are and why they are occurring. If there is a hanger problem, fix it before proceeding.

Erection problems is another story. It seems like I never get 100% hard anymore. I have been mainly hanging and only jelq occasionally now. When I first started jelqing though I would wake out of my sleep with rock hard erections.
This is another tough area and one which makes me leery of giving weight recommendations. First, it seems I had the softer erections always when in a period of gain. This could last for a couple weeks.

But I also had erection problems from abuse due to bad hangers (bruising) or overstressing. When you stress/stretch your penis, you are also stressing/stretching the nerves. If you have any growth, you must be aware that the nerves involved must also be changing, at least to a certain extent. Using common sense, the nerves will also be a limiting factor. This is why if you ever have erection problems due to decreased sensitivity, you must take time off until things return to normal. No question.

These areas are the toughest things to talk about in PE because they go directly to the risk/reward relationship. You ask good detailed questions. The more detail and information you can provide, the more I can say. Everyone must realize however that this is an individual thing.


This topic was explored a couple months ago. I wrote about it then and have thought about it from time to time. I’ve also palpated and tried to compare my penis now to my penis almost two years ago. It’s impossible to come up with anything concrete. Of course there is no way to utilize scientific method in a situation like this. The horse is out of the barn, and you can’t put him back. But I will state the facts again and give some educated guesses/opinions. Ok, here goes…..

General appearance

PrePE my unit was fairly nondescript. When erect, it was not impressive; fairly pale, little venation, smallish head, at best ordinary. Now, it always has much more color (erect or flaccid), prominent veins, and larger head/glans. Wife described as “a little scary” recently; no offense intended or taken.


First you must realize, my penis is not just much bigger (4.5”erect). The entire area is completely different from when I started. I would describe my genitals prePE as infantile. Almost complete retraction when flaccid into the body (nuts also). After almost two years of work, everything now hangs; is very prominent. Obviously the ligaments that support the entire area have been stretched/grown to express this difference.

Further, the penis was extremely high. It had never “hung” when flaccid, semi-hard etc. It pointed up (head) when flaccid, and as it became erect extended straight up. Now the best it can do is straight out when erect. I think it requires too much pressure from blood to allow it to go any higher. As it fills with blood, it hangs lower (gravity) which requires increased pressure to overcome gravity.

Where it exited my body was several inches away from the “base” or the prostate. Now it is what I consider normal. It exits much lower, only a couple inches from the prostate.

I know that I had good early gains from this ligament stretch; from everything being pulled down and out of my body. If I had to estimate, I would say around two inches.


However I also know that my head used to be well below my navel when laying down and erect. Possibly 2-3 inches below. Now it is a couple inches above my navel. If all gains were from lig stretch, I don’t think this would be possible. Unless penis inside the body was pulled “out” which allowed it to go “up” further when laying down. There may be some truth to that but I don’t think very much.

I know that the tunicae does grow/stretch. I have never said this before, but after a couple months of the uli#3, there is no doubt. I am now well attuned to my tunicae. I can “feel it” when it is under great pressure from the exercise. I can actually feel the stretch just like any other stretch. I know that it is stretching/growing laterally. I feel it does the same lengthwise. I have since realized that I feel the same thing when hanging. It is just not as pronounced.

More mass, stretching Vs growing

I am relatively certain that all gains are not simply from stretch. I have had a huge increase in the amount of flaccid mass. With no blood engorgement, there is MUCH more mass than before outside of my body. Several times more mass. Some I am sure was simply pulled out, but I can not believe this is the case with all of it. When flaccid, I can still feel a lot of mass within my body as well as the mass outside. I do not believe I had just a little mass outside and a whole lot inside prePE. I feel certain the stresses placed on my member have resulted in an increase in tissue. I have no idea of the mechanisms involved in this or the type(s) of tissue.

Permanency, future

Since starting PE, I have worried about this issue. I don’t worry much anymore since reading of Sean’s experience and thinking about it a little. In my case, it would seem to be like trying to put biscuit dough back in one of those cardboard containers. If I stopped PE completely; no milking, nothing, I would expect to lose a little simply from decreased health. I would not mind losing some even on a maintenance program which I intend to continue. It would be irrelevant.

I do not wish to gain any more length, and little if any girth. I do believe some work is needed for some abstract length of time to “cement” gains. A poor analogy would be: if you stretch a rubber band one time, it snaps back with little loss of integrity. If you stretch it constantly, it eventually will lose much elasticity, become longer, and become unable to return to it’s former shape. My wife does not want any more length, but would not mind a little more girth.

Work, efficiency and hanging, milking, Ulis

I think you will find that the one thing all big gainers have in common is tenacity. This is expressed in the consistency and levels of work. I believe you will find that as long as the techniques are performed properly, the best results are attained by those who are able to work the most. I was lucky in that I PEed all day while working. I work at home with very infrequent interruptions. I was able to incorporate PE in my daily activities with few problems. Some men do not have the time or privacy to do this many hours per week. If they are consistent however, I feel they can achieve their goals over time. The key is consistency. Most on this forum who complain of small gains admit to little work. I believe others think they are working a lot, but are only fooling themselves. I must say I think I could have achieved the same results with less work. I probably went overboard once I realized PE was possible.

The three techniques I have experience with are hanging, milking, and Uli#3. Below are my opinions mixed with a little common sense.

I think for someone who wants length, hanging is the most efficient way to go. If done properly, I think it is also the safest and easiest. It does take time to develop a comfortable routine, but this is a one time expense. Once you have become accustomed, you can perform many activities while hanging. Therefore this aspect of PE actually can require no time.

The reason it is the safest is in the fact you are utilizing known stresses, both weight and pressure. You can with certainty increase or decrease stress loads. You must however have a safe attachment device for hanging.
With milking, the inward pressure from the hands as well as the outward pull of the arms is unknown. I think there have been many more reports on this forum of injuries or desensitizing incurred from milking than from hanging. The results may vary also from many variables. How strong are your hands/arms? How long can you exert these unknown pressures? How much stress/injury is occurred and how will you know when you have gone too far? How much actual work is achieved week to week, month to month?

I think the value in milking is in the ability to increase blood flow and therefore overall penis health. Another poor analogy is angioplasty. With milking, you are able to work on the blood vessels with the hands. As long as you don’t apply too much pressure, the massaging action alone should lead to more supple vessels, and help in plaque removal etc. Depending on the amount of pressure, I think milking can increase girth due to the lateral pressures exerted on the tunicae.

The Uli#3 is definitely more efficient however in this regard. The inner pressure that can be achieved is remarkable. I feel certain this exercise is useful in increased circulation and overall penis health also.

These are just my opinions and observations. I wish I could produce a more scientific report but I can’t. Hope it helps in some way.


First, continue to remember to be patient. Hanging a roll of duct tape it good. Get the kinks worked out first.

Warning signs. Two classes, three kinds, two are bad and one is good.

First are stresses that are unrelated to enlargement. These are skin irritation, trauma to nerves, vessel damage, bruises, red spots, etc. These are caused by faulty equipment, improper attachment, or overworking. They are bad, but some of this will occur no matter what. Try to limit the amount of blood in the head before attaching the hanger. Be sure the skin is not ‘bunched’ under the wrap. There should be no pain while hanging. Make sure the hanger is beveled, no sharp edges. Make sure no part of the hanger rides on the top of the shaft, immediately behind the head. If while hanging, something does not feel right, stop. Take of the hanger, and milk to return total circulation.

Second are stresses which cause the enlargement. Stretch marks on the skin, ligament soreness, shaft soreness, general genital fatigue. This means you are working, getting a good stretch and making progress. Do not attempt to increase the workload (time/weight) as long as you feel this. Be sure to rest enough to allow for recovery.

Last are stresses from overwork. This includes pulled or ruptured ligaments, torn tunica, severe bruising. These occur when you lose patience, increase the work load too quickly, have an accident while hanging etc..

>a: is it normal for the head to swell up to almost erection size while the shaft stays flaccid?<

No. The head should not swell much while hanging, even at five pounds or so. See my post on discoloration. The weight alone is usually enough to restrict blood flow (in and out). Also, the hanger will be tight enough when you hang to limit this.

>b: what change of colors are bad…my head went from dark red to a light blue with shades of purple. is this bad?<

Yes. Anytime your head becomes dark, take off the hanger and restore circulation. Slight coloring is ok, but keep an eye on it. You had a situation where the inflow of blood was not restricted, but the outflow was restricted. The wrapping and hanger prevented any blood from leaving the head.

>c: how can i be sure that the shaft is taking most of the weight? i felt the sensation throughout the whole organ including the head it felt like.<

Practice. There is a definite learning curve to hanging. Experiment with different tightness’ and hanger placement. You will learn to feel when the pressure is on the head, or the shaft, or both. There should be no discomfort around the head. You may have some discomfort in the shaft and base area from the stretch. It should not be severe. If it is, stop.

>d: i hear people talk about 15 minutes but all three times i tried i had to remove it after 10, why?<

This is not unusual. As your body adjusts, your penis will become ‘stronger’. You will be able to increase time and weight as this occurs.


Over a year on and this stuff makes excellent reading for me at this stage. Thanks Bib and my mentor.

God I wish it was October!!!

I know this has nothing to do with this thread, but I just felt like saying it!

Oh and…GREAT READ!!!

<------- You likey?

If you don't take the time to do the PE exercises how do you expect to gain? The fairy godmother of PE?

One of the best articles on hanging

Love you bib

Wish you were my mentor


Bib still answers questions at the forum on his site,

He hasn’t been active in PE for over 10 years though, just supports his products, so his advice is still almost the same as it was in all the old gems he has here.

Before 5.5" x 4.1" ///////// Now 7.4" x 4.9"


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