ADP: All Day Pumping

I’ve been reading about vacuum hanging on the forum for the last few months, and I would like to open a dialog on the possibility of using negative pressure as an ADS device. I think that as long as a person uses very low pressure the risk of injury is low; such a device could fight of the turtle effect, and could serve a secondary role as a vacuum hanger.

What do you guys think?

That doesn’t sound bad at all.

However, my experience with negative pressure over prolonged periods is that fluid build up and water blisters may become a significant problem.

Did you try ADP? How long and at which pressure?

I will try this immediately after I finish designing a special nonchalant tube for ADP.

Check out the Brava system. Same basic concept and they have the research to back up their results. (They say it won’t work with the penis because the tissue is too elastic.)

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I have given this idea some thought in the past as a viable all night option since it does not cut-off circulation and would not interfere with nocturnal erections.

If you roll over and break the vacuum, you have only lost your PE session and not your penis.

Keep thinking…you might come up with something here.

This is my first post on these forums, and, though I’m a new member here, I’m not entirely new to PE.

I’ve been working on a similar concept for nearly a year now, and that’s just the time it’s taken me to (mostly) sort out the logistics of this whole endeavor.. I have yet to actually start doing this. One of the reasons I signed up to this site was to discuss this very procedure, which I believe is my best bet for real growth (as opposed to plastic expansion as seen with most mechanical PE techniques) short of physiological manipulation, which has proven to be unduly complex and potentially quite risky. I won’t go into my sordid and lengthy personal history just now, but I will describe where I’m at..

What I’ve discovered so far:

1. Application: The two most important factors are duration and sustained tension at optimal levels. In other words, the longer the better (I’m talking about time here). A bit of research into this (supposedly medically sound) technique, as applied to things like wound healing and limb extension, shows that Brava’s recommendation of 10 hours on/14 hours off is probably not going to produce the desired effect for most people, as most “real” applications of Mechanotransduction are usually conducted around-the-clock until the process is complete. There’s a website of very vocal dissatisfied Brava users who, though they may be just the usual small contingent of malcontented hard-or-non-gainers seen with every physical enhancement trend, might also be real victims of Brava’s desire to sugarcoat the Mechanotransduction technique in order to boost their sales. If they claimed that their device had to be worn 24/7, even fewer people would be tempted to try it. This is not to say that their recommendation doesn’t ever work for anybody, as I believe it’s safe to assume it does, but if as-near-to-continuous application as possible provides better results in less time, then that’s still less real-world time spent amputating the rest of your waking life, and superior results are superior results. As for tension, it will most likely be tricky to determine optimal vacuum levels, but I’ve experimented with regular pumping in order to gauge comfort levels, and it seems to me that, in my case at least, anything over 2” Hg would become uncomfortable and/or risky quite quickly, while anything under 1” Hg feels so weak that any potential benefit from this technique might likely be negated. Granted, going by feeling alone from just a 10-minute session is probably not the best approach, and the fact that 1” feels like “nothing” to me is probably a decent clue that lesser vacuum in the 1” range is, in fact, probably best. However, I think optimal level is likely different for everyone, and, as with all PE, the Tunica will be the real obstacle. Personal experimentation would be required for individual use.

2. The device: What a nightmare! I’m not much of a tinkerer, but I’m hardly inept either. All I can say for sure at this point is that none of the usual mail-order pumping equipment is suitable for this technique. Once again, certain criteria need to be met. In this case, that means comfort, discretion and, of course, efficiency.

Regular pumps are either manual - which would probably not provide proper sustained tension, or large, noisy electrical units which are simply not practical for long-term use. The one I have operates at 70 dBm (which is louder than my fridge), gets blisteringly hot within five minutes, and is about the size of a large electric pencil sharpener. Not exactly discreet.

Regular cylinders will only create a seal if they are held at a 90 degree angle to the body. Not practical for long-term use, I’d say. Short of cutting a cylinder in half lengthwise, diagonally, there would be no way to prevent it from jutting straight out ahead of the pelvic area for everyone to see. Even the most modestly endowed among us would not be able to get away with it, not to mention it would be difficult to maneuver around the cylinder for everyday activities - imagine sitting at a desk with it on. As for the diagonal lengthwise cut, a little basic math reveals that you would need to use a ridiculously large cylinder to do this, which wouldn’t be very discreet anyway. Additionally, the pelvic and ventral surfaces of the human body are not perfectly flat surfaces, so achieving a decent seal in order to generate a vacuum would be difficult at best.

This is a lot of typing already, but I’m working on a somewhat different device that I think shows some promise, and, if there’s any interest in my doing so, I will elaborate on it in a later post.

3. Supplements: This can go all over the place, but I think there are two basic things that need to be achieved that could potentially aid in this technique..

First of all, according to Brava, approximately half of the apparent gains made during application cycles result from edema - I.e.: water being drawn into cells.. In other words, a “pump”, same as you get from working out or a regular pumping session. They recommend that once you achieve your desired dimensions, you determine how many weeks of sustained use were required to attain that goal, and continue application for an equivalent number of weeks. At the end of that time and upon discontinuing application, your absurdly oversized boobs should drain and deflate, ideally leaving you with the desired dimensions seen from plastic deformation all those weeks prior. Now, of course, not only could it be irritating and risky to live with three months of what is essentially swelling, but it also seems that users require extra time to compensate for it. With this in mind, it makes sense to aid your body in minimizing this response. If swelling is your body’s cop-out reaction to tension that it uses before getting on with cell division, then why not do away with that reaction altogether? Would that not make the process safer, easier, and faster? I suspect it would. The only time in my now seven years of PEing where I was able to observe any undeniable, rapid result was during a period where I was suffering from an attack of both Fibromyalgia and Bursitis, and was taking massive doses of MSM and Advil to minimize the inflammation. A bit of very basic and rather incidental exercising during those two weeks got me nearly 1/2” x 1/4”, which is the only verifiable quick gain I’ve ever made. During all those years where I would Jelq and Kegel for hours, all I ever got was temporary swelling, donuts, and urine flying every which-a-way the next morning. By my math, this means that anti-inflammatories can be a useful adjunct to any mechanical PE approach, but especially to this one.

Second, if the goal is sustained cell replication, might there be something out there that would encourage such a physiological response? So far, a few things have come up, such as Comfrey/Allantoin (Naturopathic/Herbal) and Arnica (Homeopathic). If by encouraging cell division and proliferation, these compounds (or others like them) help provide a superior result in less time with reduced risk, then they can certainly be the final piece in a potentially very effective puzzle.

I would very much like to continue a real discussion about this technique on these boards if anyone’s interested and has input or is willing to attempt this along with me so we can compare observations. I estimate that my own device should be ready for use within the next month or so (mail order delays over the holidays being what they are), and results and preliminary conclusions should be apparent within a week following the start of application, after which, it would be great to be able to bounce ideas off other people’s heads.

Thanks for an excellent first post, Outsider. The question that’s now burning in my mind is whether you ever tried to replicate the fast gains you saw while you were taking MSM and NSAIDs. Also, what were your dosage levels?

Do you think it is possible that the fibromyalgia and bursitis themselves, rather than the drugs/supps, could have been responsible for your fast gains? After all, these diseases affect the connective tissues and could alter the way they respond to stress.

My personal take on long duration, low vacuum pumping is that it’s an excellent concept but a vey difficult thing to make happen in the real world. I’d be inclined to start with a small, discreet ADS, and try to wear that for as many hours per day as possible.

As with so many other things in life, it seems that the more questions I answer with regards to PE, the less I feel I can actually be categorical about. Here we go, nonetheless.. This might be long-winded again.

It did strike me that the specific situation I was in at the time may have been responsible for the strange result I obtained. However, there is a lot of debate over the precise mechanisms of Fibromyalgia, such as whether it even has any real, physiological root or is merely a triggered pain event with no tangible cause. As for Bursitis, I suspect it is the less likely of the two to have produced an environment conducive to gains, particuarly as it is a far more localized event involving fluid inflammation, and I also believe the onset of Bursitis was the result of my not being a whiner and having gone jogging in sub-zero temperatures when my girlfriend asked me to, despite having Fibromyalgia at the time, which caused me to run lopsided to compensate, thus triggering the Bursitis.

Fibromyalgia is an environmental illness, which compromises the body’s immune integrity. Is this a desirable state for a positive PE outcome? Perhaps.. But how to test that, I have no idea. Part of my personal history is with long-term environmental illness of all kinds, which I personally believe hindered my penile (among other things) development to a very significant degree. During the worst years of it is when I first attempted mechanical PE with any sort of concerted effort, and my results were less than sterling to say the least.

Only during the last year or so have I made any major inroads into overcoming these admittedly rather nebulous afflictions and regaining some form of vitality, and I have seen many previous physical endeavors suddenly begin to bear fruit after years of stagnation. Not only that, but supplements I had sampled to no avail several years ago when combating these illnesses now appear to have an effect on me, and so I’ve begun wondering whether I should just try again for the manual PE and see if it could finally work for me.

But I digress somewhat.. The point is, that specific two-week period of my life was notable for several reasons. I began working a contract that demanded a gruelling 14-hour day average from me, for 6 days the first week and 7 days the second week. I was extremely tired and had little time to concentrate on anything other than work, so thinking about PE wasn’t tops on my list. Neither was maintaining my usual diet and workout regimen, sleeping as much as usual, having sex, relaxing, and so on.. Not only that, the temperature had begun to plummet and, as usual when that happens, my flaccid went from it’s summertime 5” x 4.5” to it’s winter-long, cold-induced 4” x 4”. Despite all this, I had a raging libido during that entire period, for reasons unknown, and had frequent, very healthy erections every day. This led to a bit of minor PEing, just because, but no real concerted effort.

The interesting thing is that the weekend previous to this two week period, I had tried a three-day sample of a (rather expensive) combination of supplements I believed at the time might aid me in triggering a positive physiological PE response. It may or may not have worked, but my libido and everything associated with it skyrocketed, and along with that came the Fibromyalgia. Now, whether the supplements caused the attack is debatable (though I associated the two at the time), as FM is a stress response, and it was a very stressful weekend for me in many other ways - death of a friend, failure of a creative effort, relationship difficulties, and an extreme case of my usual size insecurities..

So what’s my point? I suppose it’s that I haven’t been able to pinpoint the precise circumstance or set of circumstances during that period that set me off. There were so many variables, and, unfortunately, many of them can’t be replicated. Also unfortunately, there have been no further gains (though, luckily, no further attacks either) made with the same combination of supplements I had experimented with during that weekend prior to everything going haywire, and, not only that, I have now even lost the girth gains I had made, which is a real shame because it’s what I need most and have the hardest time gaining. Those two weeks were the only time my girlfriend has ever seemed to be at least somewhat satisfied with my size.. It felt nice. Too fleeting, alas. Back to my usual uncontrollable visualizations of her with someone else she enjoyed more. Lovely..

So, to answer your question of dosage and whether I’d attempted to try again with the MSM and Ibuprofen.. I had toyed with the idea that it may have been these compounds that produced the result, instead of what I’d initially thought was at the root of it. This is what led me to theorize that anti-inflammatories might be useful for PE, which is part of my now-planned future regimen. I take a number of compounds on regular rotation for all sorts of things, many of which have anti-inflammatory properties, and have noticed absolutely no edema when pumping or while performing any other PE activity. It’s to the point where I wonder how anybody gets any sort of size increase (even temporary) while pumping, as I look like my usual, skinny, rock-hard-but-too-tight erect self in the pump at 6” Hg. Incidentally, I also took whack-loads of Glucosamine and Chondroitin at that time along with the rest, and, though I have now ruled out Glucosamine and Chondroitin from any positive PE equation after reading a number of threads from this site, I may yet attempt to sample that cocktail again should the MSM/Advil route not bear fruit a second time. As far as dosage went, I wasn’t shy. I have used MSM for a number of things on and off for several years now and I know I can tolerate high doses, so I went for an easy 20-30 grams a day. I took about the same amount of Glucosamine, and about twice the recommended daily dose of Ibuprofen, under past recommendation from a doctor “friend” who told me that painkillers prescribed for bursitis were essentially Advil, but a much stronger yet still safe dose. I felt absolutely no obvious side effects from any of this.

As you mention it, and since I have been thinking of trying this combination again anyway, here’s what I’ll do.. I just got home from work, so I’m going to pop some MSM and Advil, and pump for as long as I feel comfortable with, using the regular, cumbersome equipment at extra-low vacuum. Check the results. Maybe I’ll try for a three-days-on sort of thing and report on my progress. After that, I’ll take a break, say two days, and then do the same dosage, but give myself a proper manual workout for three days like I haven’t done in some time. Then take two days. Then do the same thing without chemical assistance, and take some more time off. I’ll report on my progress each step of the way. Yeah, I can think of a number of reasons why what I just outlined is not the most, uh, empirical method of collecting data, but I guess what it comes down to is that if I get some decent gains doing any of this, I’ll gladly take it, and wonder what approach was most responsible at a later time. Patience, right? Hah!

In the meantime, I’m still open to discussion about all the rest. Thanks for the reply, by the way!

From Wikipedia on Relaxin:

“Specific disorders related to relaxin have not been described, yet it has been suggested that it could be linked to scleroderma and to fibromyalgia.”

Veeeeeeeeery interesting!

I have read Sagestop’s posts in the Patent Pending Chemical PE threads where he claims he can get Porcine Relaxin online, though whenever I try the mail-order site he claims to get it from, I am unable to find anything of the sort. I would be very curious to try this now. I think I might PM him for more info.

..

No major update on my experiment yet - didn’t really expect one anyway.

Outsider,

This is all great stuff. I’m buried under work right now, but hope to respond more fully once I manage to dig out.

Thanks! I do my best. And I am committed to this task.

I’ve also been a little busy as well, and the holidays are right around the corner. I don’t expect to have much in the way of progress reports for a while, but I’m liking this Collagen/Relaxin/MSM axis quite a bit. While I’m waiting for my device to be ready, and waiting also for consultations with Dr. Adams, maybe I’ll keep forging ahead with this idea.

This should possibly go in another thread, but since I’m here.. Following up on discussions about both chemically-assisted PE and heat-assisted PE, well.. Wasn’t it determined that the heat technique could provide spectacular, immediate results, but that the effect was essentially softening of collagen bonds, which could then be deformed and re-set? If so, and as there’s a natural limit to that extensibility, perhaps it’s a good approach for steady, continued gains at a decent rhythm to stretch that technique as far as it goes, take a break so bonds can gel, and then apply something that can break those bonds, such as Relaxin (or DMSO/Castor Oil, Nattokinase/Serropeptase/Bromelain, MSM, Carnosine, what have you - anything or everything that might attack collagen bonds).. Take that as far as it goes.. Rinse and repeat.. I don’t know, maybe.

I’ve seen that there are several members here working on theories along these lines, but I think there should be some concerted effort towards unifying all these ideas and, most importantly, trying them out. Just knowing about all this stuff is already encouraging to me, so I’m absolutely willing to be the guinea pig on this. Frankly, I don’t see I have much to lose, but a lot to gain. I’m waiting for an IR heating pad, and I’ll order some Relaxin and such just as soon as I can. I think I might be very active on these boards for a while.

Actually, I hope I’ll be active, because that’ll mean I have real progress to report.

The Outsider,

Trying to figure out what is going to work based on 2 or 3 days of “testing” is just not going to work. Any reasonable single test would have to last for months in order to evaluate its results.

You are over thinking this by about 1000 percent and getting lost in details and chemicals that the average good gainer has absolutely no need of in order for this rather simple process to work.

Here is something to try first. Eat and sleep well, exercise and do PE. I think you will find that this is a pretty hard gaining combination to beat.

I’m overthinking this precisely because the methods you just outlined have utterly failed to work for me since 1999. I eat very well, sleep more than enough for the most part, work out religiously, and PE just as much as I can without taking risks, and I’ve never seen a millimeter of verifiable gain from any of that. I’m not the average good gainer, I’m a spectacular non-gainer.

Besides, the PE techniques outlined in these pages might work after a fashion, but I don’t think any of them lead to “true” gain, and that’s what I’m after.

I know three days is not the best timeframe for testing - I said it myself above. I suppose I’m in a rush because I’m alone for the next week and I finally have time to try things out. Nonetheless, these tests were not quite what you may be thinking, but merely a way to judge immediate, short-term reaction for gauging comfort levels and long-term viability of these solutions.

Edit: And I just always think that there has to be a better way.

Pardon me for focusing only this one point, and I don’t mean to criticize, but I want to say for the record that I disagree with this statement. The gains I have made using the techniques outlined here are “true” gains. They are substantial and (so far) permanent. Anyone can make a mistake about an eighth inch gain, but I’ve put on a full inch in length and a full inch in girth. There’s no mistaking the change.

Perhaps these techniques haven’t worked for you, and thus have yielded no “true” gain for you. If so, I understand your sentiment. But the techniques have worked for others, I being one of them.