Synergistic Effect of Pumping When Systematically Combined with Other PE Techniques

Avocet, Zep, and others,

I am beginning to get very enthusiastic when considering the possibilities with use of pumping particularly when coupled with other PE techniques and a potential additive or even synergistic PE effect

For convenience I would like to coin identification phrase:

Avocet8= method, see pumping 101 thread, we are talking about low pressure for limited time frames x days weekly (perhaps five days).

I was reflecting on hypothetical optimization techniques, and how they may be optimal. For example, I reasoned that pumping (external vacuum) when coupled with internal vascular pressure in an alternating way, you have the best of both worlds. For example, I would perform the avocet8 with jelqing, manual uli’s in-between each set of the pumping. IOW this gives you 3 sets of Avocet8 with jelquing, manual uli’s in-between. We know that uli’s have resulted in major gains for Uli, BIB et als. That can be considered an established fact. We believe strongly that pumping per avocet8 induces gains. When you couple this in a systematic way, the hypothesis is compelling that an additive, synergistic effect may be possible.

In summary you have external vacuum force coupled with internal vascular force, thus hitting it from comprehensive angles. One might conclude the avocet8 work out with a uli wrap or cock ring again to induce the internal pressure in a chronic way for perhaps several hours which we would call maintenance phase.

(You have the option of wearing a snug cylinder at no or low vacuum, but we are still only using 1/2 of the equation it seems and not the full spectrum. Though this may be a good method also, time will tell.)

My historical results with just pumping 30 min every other day with <4.5 mm HG, I gained 1 inch in circumference and probably 1/2 inch in length, the bad news is this took quite some time. With the JES extender I gained 1/2 inch in 5 months so I know this also works. BIB resulted also in some gains 3/8. 1/2 inch.
The JES extender allows for complete mobility while it induces chronic stretch which I like. With this additional knowledge, fasted and more efficient gains may be possible.

I look forward to hearing other ideas and insights.

Merlin “Alchemy of PE”

Merlin;

Well, it all sounds very logical to me. Plus my gains over a little more than a year seem to be far more than the average (going for 2.5 inches in length increase). But we have to consider, too, that some of us just seem to be more quickly “stretchable” than others from the point of view of individual penile tissue.

What appeals to me about short sessions of pumping at low pressure alternated with jelk exercises are the following: 1) far less chance of tissue damage and 2) much more frequent introduction of newly-oxygenated blood which would seem to encourge both cell division and micro-stress healing.

I’ve said here often that I’m more interested in flaccid gain than erect gain. I have an intuition that your method of very low pressure coupled with wearing a cock/ball ring for a few hours after PE could encourage flaccid increase. I’ve found that I often hold a consider amount of tumescense - so much so that I’m sometimes very conscious of what clothing choices I make so I don’t bulge too much in public. [Ironic, isn’t that, for one trying to build a larger cock? :-) ] Point is, the cock ring is loose enough to allow good blood flow, yet some expansion remains during those hours. And, perhaps coincidentally, I’ve had the most noticeable flaccid increase since November when I began wearing the ring after PE, which was not too long after I chopped my pump session times to less than half of what they had been previously which was up to 20 minutes in the cylinder. I now rarely exceed 6 minutes per vacuum pump session which amounts to 18 minutes in-cylinder per PE, as opposed to nearly an hour before.

I don’t know zep’s starting/current numbers, but sounds like he has a major unit both flaccid and erect. Hope he’ll chime into this discussion. There could be something to this method if we can tweak it.

Avocet,

<Gootimes to less than half of what they had been previously which was up to 20 minutes in the cylinder. I now rarely exceed 6 minutes per vacuum pump session which amounts to 18 minutes in-cylinder per PE, as opposed to nearly an hour before. >

Good insights, I assume you mean 3sets of 6 min. in cylinder as apposed to previously spending 3 sets of 20 min in the cylinder, is that correct assumption. How much time do you now spend intrapump session with the manual work and what is the range of your manual work? For example, I have found manual jelq/uli intra-pump combo encouraging.

Merlin

Edit: per the low/no pressure cylinder maintenance, you reasoning sounds correct, we can experiment with this and make experiential determinations in due course, unless someone on this board has had derinitive experince already. You observations per cock ring seem to point in that direction.

M

M;

I begin with warm-up stretching, standard jelking, then fully erect ulis (if they’re really uli’s - I confess I never understood exactly what a real uli is), total about 6-8 minutes, then go to the cylinder and always enter cylinder hard. I go along with Thunder’s suggestion that pumping hard may reduce the amount of lymphatic fluid sucked into the penis - hence, better blood work. So, 6 min in at low pressure, about 6-8 minutes of workout. I only do one warm wrap, at beginning of all this.

M&A —

I definately notice that there was a unqiue relationship between pumping at very low vac rates and combing this with other proven PE methods.

I also recently discovered that after a longer pump session during which sizable girth measurements occur then I can built on this and obtain similiar size results in significantly less time. I believe this is exactly what Avocet is saying, right.

For instance if on day one if I pump for 3 sets with intervals of masaging or ulis/jelqing, then on day 2 this time is reduced with simliar results.

For me it seems the catalyst for this builting on effect is to pump in conjunction with intervals of jelqing and more importantly massaging the area just beneath the skin of the penis in order to force out any residual fluids

My starting measurements were 6x5 in 8/00, now 8x5.75 however I have done no girth work since September when I started hanging as my primary PE exercise.I do know that I can pump past 6 inch girth in about 5-10 minutes ans hold that size for extended periods of time.

With these new considerations for pumping I may rethinking my program to incorporate some miniual pumping. For me girth is easiler to obtain than lenght consequently that has been my primary focus.

thanks,

zep said: <I do know that I can pump past 6 inch girth in about 5-10 minutes and hold that size for extended periods of time.>

Now. I get the part about vacuum expansion, pressure, yada yada. What I don’t get is why, when tissues expand at this rate - skin surface expands via blood/lymphatic fluids sucked in beneath it which inflate the whole unit lengthwise/girthwise - this doesn’t carry over and reflect in a normal erection faster than it does. This real growth has to be about cavernosa volume expansion over time?

And, how long can you hold that size either pumped or PE’ed? For me it was many months before I saw anything near a 24 hour effect.

Guys,

I have been continuing in my reflections per multi method intervention. Take for example a body builder, working on the deltoids. One can perform a superset scenario, an accepted superior methodology, involving multiple movements in a specific sequence. For example, one might do the following sequence for the deltoids- lateral rowing, press behind the neck, press in front of the neck, bent over rowing for posterior deltoids, and upright rowing, and so on for other body parts including guess who? (Mr. Third Leg)

As an example, for length PE work one may proceed as follows: 1) stretching phase w/ BIB hanger 3 sets of 20 min. with jelqing intraset, then upon completion perform approx. 10 minutes intense jelqing and ulis. 2) Maintenance phase consists of wearing the JES extender adlibitum as it keeps the penis in a stretched phase chronically under about 2.5 lbs force. (Similar to longitudinal wrapping popularized by a member of this board). This methodology may reduce the need for extensive multi set work done with BIB hangeralone, and still achieve the same gains . Could 3 sets with BIB plus adlibitum JES theoretically equal more sets of BIB alone, thus increasing efficiency; time will tell.

A multi set scenario with the pump might proceed as follows: 1) expansion phase per avocet8 suggested schedule, 2) intraset intense jelqs and ulis alternating, 3) complete pumping phase with more intense jelqs and uli for x minutes. 4 Maintenance can consist of uli wrap or static cylinder no/low vacuum for up to several hours.

It is noteworthy to indicate the extent of work is an individual thing, optimum rather than maximum intervention is best as maximum will result in overexercise and no results. The range is extreme, for BIB I understand his hanging lasted for 8-12 hours daily with legendary results, for luvdadus it is my understanding from reading his post that his work out is less than an hour.

These are interesting ideas, which I hope will challenge and stimulate feedback.

Merlin Alchemy of PE

Zep amd Avocet,

Zep brought up an interesting point which you were also interested in. If we could pursue this.

<For instance if on day one if I pump for 3 sets with intervals of masaging or ulis/jelqing, then on day 2 this time is reduced with simliar results. >

This also occurred to me, I would like to know more about this “building on” process from the previous day’s work by reducing the time duration of pumping the next day. One point that strikes me is you guard against over working the tissues while building on the previous days results not allowing the tissues enhancing effect to subside.

Before I say more, I would appreciate any further thoughts on this daily time frame variation pattern.

Merlin Alchemy of PE

Merlin;

I don’t know. I’m sure I’ve done what Zep is suggesting without having thought about it. Instead of 8 minutes in the cylinder (three sessions of this) for example, I might do three 4 - 5 minute sessons the following day simply because of the time constraints of that particular day. Whether that has ever caused a change I couldn’t say. The trick would be to drop the routine down (in time) on the day following some measured increase, which I haven’t had in a couple of months of this most recent plateau.

Unrelated; one odd thing I have found and verified is this: I have a goal in my head of 6.50 girth (am 6.25 now). Way back, sometime in the fall, a couple of us talked about this at PE Forums: we noticed that our nocturnal erections seemed larger to us than our PE ones. I have “caught” a couple of these and measured them and they have been 6.50 or very slightly more in girth and I can _never_ duplicate that in daytime (waking) hours. Obviously I can sometimes, under certain conditions, reach 6.50 or more but not through any manipulation I do during PE. A reason for this difference might be that nocturnal erections (during REM sleep) are thought to occur through a different neural pathway, and that that different neural event creates a different tissue reaction.

guys —

The fact that limiting the pumping duration to less time when pumping daily seems to coincide with the approach of pumping for predetermined intervals at lower vacuum.

This theory is somewhat opposed to conventional pumping to date.

It becomes a tricky matter to” force” myself to discontinue pumping when I know if I pump for longer intervals the size with continue to increase.

So I’m coaxing my penis to grow not forcing it ; what I’m thinking is that this limited pumping totally minimizes the adverse lymp fluid built up and maximizes the expansion phase.

Hope is thought helps,

Zep says <So I’m coaxing my penis to grow not forcing it ; what I’m thinking is that this limited pumping totally minimizes the adverse lymp fluid built up and maximizes the expansion phase.>

On the other hand, it’s sexual erections most of us are interested in and they are primarily blood-driven, I assume, with little to no lymphatic fluid pulled up.

Interesting conundrum.

avocet8—

It is my understanding that the flow of lymphatic fluid into the penis during pumping exists in a space between the skin and the erectile tissue. On the other hand the flow of blood into the penis during pumping occurs within the corpora cavernosa portion of the penis.

These appear to be two opposite forces; the first creating a negative force ( pushing in on the penis) while the second is a postive force ( tissue expansion), this later effect is a TRUE growth senerio while IMO the expansion of the penis by lymphatic fluid built up a total negative and couter productive to long term penis growth.

Subquentely, a person wishing to maximize a pumping program should attempt to increase blood flow while limiting lymphatic fluid.

While the skin must ultimately expand to see growth, it shouldn’t occur at the risk of performing a possible counter- productive stimulus.

Very good point, zep.

A —

Remember it isn’t about size is size at any price, it’s size is good when results are permanent, and if you pump in a counter productive manner why bother.

So the question remains is there a correct means of pumping that yields permanant results.

Having thought about it a good deal, now into my second year of pumping, and talked with other experienced pumpers, I believe that pumping gains, achieved by pumping alone, are not permanent. Stop pumping entirely and you will likely go back gradually to Square One, is my view.

But I do feel strongly that pumping and jelking exercises are an excellent combination; the pumping augmenting length and girth expansion and the jelking somehow cementing in the gains over time. Not just because I like to do it, but either I happen to be genetically, tissue-wise, a great PE candidate or something about what I’ve been doing (pumping and jelking) has made a number of things click in a relatively short period of time.

If it’s technique, it would be useful to isolate how that operates.