Curious J's Progress Thread

I started PE in late August while I was stuck at home with COVID.

Unfortunately, although I came to this site first, I independently found out about ‘Angion Method’ soon after. I told myself it would be a better approach to work on EQ first, as a prep for traditional PE, and so I did that for a couple of weeks. Then I found out. Welp. It truly did seem like it was helping my flaccid hang and all that, but it was clearly not doing anything for my erect measurements.

Since then, its been only heated stretching and jelqing. (Occasionally kegel and reverse kegel thrown in here and there.)

There have been many scares and setbacks, but I can now report with confidence that my boy’s been growing, slowly but steadily, with each month.

NBPEL started at 6.7 (generously) two months ago, and is now at 6.85.
BPEL started at 7.2 (probably somewhat of an undermeasurement, but it was not more than 7.5) and is now 7.8-7.85.

Girth gains have been more modest, on the order of 1/16 inch.

Curiosity has become conviction and commitment, haha.

I may post more about some of the pitfalls and issues I’ve faced (drastic loss of EQ, bruising, blood) in the future, and also update on the one fairly exotic thing I’ve tried, namely fat freezing.

The Angion method is a scam.

Congrats on your gains and welcome!

Great job and welcome to TP!

Thanks for the welcomes above! Following up with my first update.

I was a little disappointed by my measurements from a couple of days ago, which showed basically no growth over a month, and some measurements even lower.

For a while now, it has seemed like the only thing improving was BPFSL. On the one hand, my BPFSL is now close to 9 in. That seems *crazy* to me. It was unthinkable that such a measurement would ever apply to me, even a few months ago.

On the other hand, that measurement and the change in it over the past few months is spectacularly failing to translate into EL measurements. I would wager it has only weakly translated into FL (which I’m not measuring because it’s so noisy). And (for me anyway) there’s no intrinsic benefit to increases to FSL.

Further, the measurements of EL that I do put in my stats are "peak" measurements during a given episode. Typically, my NBPEL stays around 6.5 in.
This certainly has to do with EQ. But I did not/do not know how to improve that. Overtraining is not the culprit. My typical EQ is the same as it ever was before PE. And it does not change significantly when I take days off, as many other PEers report.

One thing I have noticed, though, is that my EQ surges as I near orgasm. In general, I do feel like I have to be stimulating my penis through the measurement process to get a good measurement (even if not to the cusp of orgasm). The moment I stop stimulating my penis, the erection starts to return to this baseline 6.5 inch level. With stimulation, it has typically been reaching 6.7-6.8. Closer to orgasm, my measurements surge even higher. I have tried to measure at this point, and it does look like they are significantly higher. But I have never bothered to carefully take such measurements, nor have I presumed to enter them in my stats, because they are localized to the time before orgasm, and don’t seem "genuine." (At least, not how I’m operationalizing these measurements.)

Fast forward to today. I started off in disappointment, with the usual 6.5 in. NBPEL. Then I started to play around with it (*cough*). Meaning, not just masturbate normally, but (and I don’t know how to describe this well) by flexing and relaxing the different muscles in the environs of my penis. Including not only the pelvic floor muscles (PC, BC, IC) and kegeling (which I think is a huge pitfall men fall into with EQ; anyway, it was for me), but also the muscles around the lower abdomen. My mindset was just to get everything in motion down there, to push the blood around, and feel the tension build in one region before shifting to another.

This was a first experiment, but the results were. Honestly pretty clear. Ie, it worked! My (length) measurements unambiguously and significantly increased. I recorded them as 7 and 8 for NBP and BP EL, respectively, but in fact those are conservative measurements. It’s striking how much there is to be gained from improving EQ.

On the cautionary side, I will say that this informal "technique" I tried out required me to focus on flexing and releasing different muscles and shifting muscular tension around, which is effortful and requires concentration. I also don’t have an evidence-based picture of the mechanism for why this would help. I suspect it has to do with the fact that I unconsciously hold tension in certain muscles (like the BC) and restrict blood flow as a consequence, so that this exercise caused some of that restriction to relax. I’ll need to do more tooling around. But it was very encouraging.

It happens. Don’t stress out over it.

Some guys have such wildly variable EQ that BPFSL is the only consistent, repeatable measurement they can get. While it doesn’t directly relate to BPEL, it’s still a reliable measure of progress.

Interesting. Please do a follow-up post and let us know how that works out for you over time.

2 cents.

EQ? What is your age, this is very important we know this, it could be age or PE or both and we need more info to help you. As I always say, basketball players lose all skills from 30-34 and yet we don’t stay up at night wondering why? I lost stamina at 30-34 and again 40-43 it just so happens I was doing PE during that first 30-34, I can’t blame PE on that.

Water pumping for me has been heaven-sent, my EQ is back and better than ever. For me it works wonders, I think I will water pump for life now at least once a week just for EQ.

Long overdue for an update. Thank you AndyJ for the encouragement and BMTB for the 2 cents.

So, yeah, I’m 32. And sure, point taken and all that. But what I experienced was a very sudden change, so maybe I’ll just give some more of the relevant background.

To start with what we all know, natural physiological and hormonal changes are gradual (e.g. Testosterone on average drops 2% year over year). More personally, my EQ at no point in my life has been a 10. As long as I can remember, it has been what I would now consider about an 8. And even as I entered my 30s, it was still around an 8, and lower than that only if I was in a period of high stress or fatigue. As it happens, it was in November, at the age of 32, that I had the best EQ of my life. It was just a fuckin’ hog for four days straight. No pharmacological assistance. And a 10/10 for EQ. (At the time, I just thought, "Damn, could it really be that this stuff works?") In fact, it wasn’t just EQ that was top — it looked bigger and fuller, flaccid, too.

In *that* context, my EQ very suddenly dropped to somewhere between a 3 and a 5 in December. I knew this was a classic sign of overtraining so I took a break. As a reward, my FL shrunk and I started experiencing hard flaccids all the time. One culprit I think I correctly identified was kegels; I learned that if they were overdone, they could result in pelvic floor tightness and result in constriction of blood vessels. I started doing reverse kegels to correct that. But I think I accidentally overdid that, too, and gave myself a hematoma (hahaha, oy vey, smh). That’s cleared up, luckily. But even so, I wasn’t all the way back to normal.

It’s true that there are a whole lot of confounding variables, and it’s impossible to account for them all. One is that in December it just got cold where I live, plain and simple. This seems to be contributing at least partially to the apparent stretched-length losses and flaccid retraction and the like. Another is stress — I am finishing my PhD and around that time started facing a whole mess of deadlines, applications, interviews, and the pressure to finish writing my dissertation. There are others, too. All of them are surely contributing factors. But unclear which if any is the really decisive one.

Things are a fair bit better now, luckily. Here’s what I have changed.

Around mid-January, I introduced 20 min of NIR as a warm-up to PE sessions. I have also since halved my stretching time (was 10 minutes per session, now 5 minutes), and shifted some attention away from jelqing and towards Uli #3s. I now use jelqs as basically a warmup for Uli#3s, rather than featuring them as a primary exercise. By the end of the session, I draw the Ulis out to 20-30 seconds, so that they are shading into becoming short "clamping"-type exercises (which is something I am considering trying in another month or two).

Since then, flaccid hang and fullness is drastically improved. I have also had the first girth gains that I can be confident go beyond the margin of error. EQ is back up to 8+/- (although I have not replicated that magical long weekend of 10 EQ). NBPEL is now at 6.8 as a kind of baseline. This represents a very modest tenth of an inch gain relative to when I started. But when my EQ is especially good, NBPEL reaches 7-7.2 inches ,which is more encouraging.

On the other hand, BPFSL, after increasing steadily for months, and reaching almost 9 inches, has not increased in about a month, and has maybe even retracted a tenth of an inch or so, to 8.8.

That said, I am very curious about water pumps. I have done a bit of research, but wanted to try manual exercises for 6 months to a year to see how far I could get with that first. Reasons including: wanting to use the no-cost methods that were ready to hand, wanting my penis to "acclimate" to the stresses, and wanting proof of concept before making expensive purchases.

Like I said, I have been doing more Uli#3, and preparing to explore clamping in a month or two. But I wonder if water pumps are really the way to go for those like me who have a hard time making girth gains and really need an assist with EQ.

Oy vavoy. This period of stagnation has driven me to do another round of in-depth research through the forum and elsewhere on the internet, and prompted me to take a longer decon break. I realized too late that, even though my physiological indicators got to be basically fine (e.g. No hard flaccids), the fact of stagnation itself should have prompted it. Decon is active rest!

I’m now going to be taking a lot of my cues from 5squared, scienceguy, and the longer stretch, and try out vacuum hanging. Manual stuff has been instructive. But, as they’ve said, there’s no way to measure the force applied. It’s just not very methodical. Besides, I’m tired of tugging so hard I feel like I’m about to rip the damn thing off, and squeezing to the point of giving myself tendinitis in my hands. It’s exhausting. It’s time-consuming. And the TotalMan kit was not too expensive, at about $65 all told.

Inspired by their examples, I’m going to be more methodical, and better about operationalizing my measurements (which have been too noisy, I’ve come to realize). My vacuum hanger just arrived today, and I’ve tried it all on using their video guides. I’ve set up my spreadsheets. I used kyrpa’s calculator to gauge the target load. And I’m using an NIR pad for heat.

Cycle 1 will start next Monday, after I finish a two week decon. (I think this should be enough, because I had accumulated only about an hour of total stretching over the prior three weeks.)

Going to start with a "dipping my toes in" routine (I think it came from 5squared), and then progress (slowly!) toward the target routine, which is based off of kyrpa’s strain theory. Phase 1 is the initial build up of weight. Phase 2 is the heated phase. And Phase 3 is the cooldown.

Toe-Dipping Routine

Phase 1 15 min. 18 oz
Phase 2 30 min. 36 oz
Phase 3 15 min. 48 oz

Target Routine (indexed to strain calculator)
Phase 1 15 min. 2.5 lb —> 4.2 lb
Phase 2 30 min. 4.2 lbs —> 7.2 lbs
Phase 3 15 min. 8.6 lbs

Will try for 4 weeks and then check back in!

____
Re the measurement noise: In reexamining everything, I came to notice lots of problems with my measurement methods. This was surprising and frustrating because there is nothing "inaccurate" about the measurements I have recorded. They have all reflected real ruler measurements. I have not fudged numbers. I did not bend the ruler. Nothing like that. There were just a number of things I hadn’t even thought of or noticed before that were creating too much noise. Some are relatively straightforward, like measuring in inches, or inconsistent ambient temperatures. Other issues, about measuring technique, were pretty frustrating when I noticed them.

The biggest thing was realizing that changes in my posture that are so subtle I was not conscious of them can affect measurements significantly. I always measure SO, standing up. But, for example, sometimes I might lower my head to a greater or lesser degree, in order to better see the ruler markings. This can actually change the measurement by creating a very slight hinge at the hips. I’ve found that measurements can easily vary up to half a centimeter, or around .2 inches, because of this, even though the change in my posture is hardly visible from the outside. It is frustrating to think that my length measurements have been affected by something so unrelated as the ambient lighting conditions. Dammit!

So I am now measuring with exaggeratedly "good" posture and keeping my head upright. This and a couple of other changes generally bring my measurements down. Alas. But they result in lower artifactual variance across measurements, so it’s all for the best.

Question I’m going to just drop into the ether, in case someone feels inclined to answer (if not, hopefully I’ll figure it out myself, and then be able to report back with some wisdom):

If you’re not getting high strain values for vacuum hanging, by what markers can you discern which of the following situations you are in:
(a) your tissues are tough, and you needed to take more decon time to let the tissues heal/soften properly, or
(b) your tissues are fine, you just aren’t adding enough weight?

Basically, I’m wondering if anyone has faced similar experiences. How did you think through deciding whether it was time to back off and decon, or else to just increase the load?

—-

Context:
-this is my first time hanging
-previously, did only manual stretches and jelq/uli
-manual stretching only about 20 minutes a week (but probably with significantly higher force than with vacuum hanging)
-took two weeks completely off of all PE before vacuum hanging
-given my measurements, kyrpa’s calculator returned 67 oz and 115 oz for my .1 MPa and .17 MPa weights
-however, following 5squared’s recommendations (see previous post), I started much lower; originally maxing at 48 oz;
-have done 7 sessions of 1 hour duration so far (average strain 1.33%)
-after a week of strain values below 1.5% (with one exception) I gradually increased that to 78 oz (I.e., still ~40 oz short of kyrpa values), but strain is still only 1-1.5%
-heat source is NIR, gets to 40 deg C within ten minutes (skin surface temp, anyway)

You might try creeping up your weight a little to see if your strain % gets above 2. Keep it as low as possible at get 2-4%. Although the calculated numbers are an estimate, you haven’t yet tried them. You might need just a bit more but still under the estimated weights, right at them or even a bit over to get the strain target.

On the other hand, I think some have reported gains at lower strain % rates, so you might just see how a few months of 1-1.5% results. If you are making gains then it’s working and if it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

Thanks, TenaciousD!

Following your advice, I’m going to suck it up, and continue to creep up the weight. Today was at 1.9%, so I’ll probably stay here, or at most add just a bit more. I’m still about two pounds short of the kyrpa values, so this feels like a good place to ride it out for a while.

Finally hitting my stride as I near the end of my third week of vac hanging. Very grateful, and starting to feel optimistic/pumped about this program.

Strain is sometimes low (.5%), but usually 1.5-2.3%. Slowly working out the kinks in my measurement procedures, but I think I’ve figured out the last major issue today. H/t again to TenaciousD for encouraging me to creep up the weight, which seems to have been the right move.

Results so far: 208mm —> 216mm BPFSL (pre-measurements). So, cumulative "strain" of 3.8%.

Current routine:
45 oz — 15 minutes
Apply heat (NIR)
Build up to 97 oz — 35 minutes
Remove heat
115 oz. — 15 minutes

I will probably extend this cycle for another two weeks, maybe three, just because there were so many stumbling blocks for the first week (and really, for the first two weeks).

Haven’t been measuring girth, but unit feels a little thicker, too, and more prominent dorsal veins. Possibly because of the brief clamping (~3 minutes) that I do in order to tape up and put on the vac. Hanger. Admittedly, it could be illusory though, because this wasn’t something I set out to measure.

In the middle of week 5 of 6 in the first cycle. I’ve increased weights to
45 oz — 15 minutes
Add heat — 10 minutes ( to reach 39 deg C+)
Build up to 107 oz — 25 minutes
Remove heat
123 oz — 15 minutes

I logged really excellent strain on Monday (2.5-3%). My best measurement post hanging was about 226mm, as compared to about 219mm pre. I began at 208mm at the beginning (pre).

However, the next day, I logged effectively 0% strain with the same load, pre and post at 218mm.

Today, again same load, my pre and post were 217 and 219, for a strain of 0.92%.

I think I will finish out the week, but this may be an indication it’s time to start my decon/active rest a week earlier than I had scheduled. The prescription is to take a rest when "cumulative strain" reaches around 8%. I am not sure what that refers to. Is it when your pre measurements start to represent an 8% gain over your initial pre measurement? Or is it when you post measurement represents an 8% gain over your initial pre measurement?

(My Monday post measurement of 226mm relative to my starting point of 208mm has definitely hit the 8% threshold, but definitely not my pre measurements, which have most recently been around 218-219mm.)

As an aside: by golly is this way better than manual methods. It took a while to get the hang of it and to work out the kinks in the vacuum chamber and all that. But now that I have it down, it’s much quicker, I can get work done throughout the session, no more tendinitis in my hands, and its more easily trackable. In case anyone’s reading and considering, I’d say that for me it was definitely worth the upfront investment, and if you’re serious about doing PE for at least 6mo to a year, it is probably worth it for you, too.

Just went through the thread. I was wonder where did you find your information on strain and what specific routine to use?. Thanks