A newbie taking the bodybuilders perspective

http://www.vetp ro.co.nz:888/Ve … s_glutamine.htm

What is glucosamine?

Glucosamine is a key component either directly or indirectly of all five GAG molecules involved in the maintenance of normal joint function. The body makes its own glucosamine by combining glucose and glutamine, an amino acid. Glucosamine is obtained commercially from chitin which is found in the shells of crustaceans. It is available as either glucosamine sulphate or hydrochloride.

Are you already taking a protein supplement for your bodybuilding program? If so, check the ingredients and the amino acid list on your product to see if it is not already supplying you with all you need.

Currently, I only take a multi & ginkgo biloba regularly. I have a protein shake after a resistance workout, but typically not day to day.. (Although really thinking about a regular shake/meal replacement because I’m eating 5-6x daily)

I found the forum initially, when I because curious about pills and pumps. Tried a pill, and did notice increase pump and harder erections. This got me thinking that I could make real improvements with correct PE exercises and supplements. (The knowledge base here is pretty impressive when reading through the posts).

Because of the regularity of stresses placed on the penis, from what I’ve heard, L-glutamine is a idea healer especially if you over-train. Exercising as little as 24 hours (if not less) apart, quicker healing/recovery might mean quicker gains.

I am looking to add more supplements, and there seems to be some great cross-over area here. Any thoughts on Glutamine? Do you take or take any other supplements which might be great for both PE and Bodybuilding?

Thanks gprent!

Glutamine is important, however if you are drinking a protein shake post-workout, most likely that has enough glutamine in it to suffice. Optimum Nutrition’s Gold Standard whey protein has 4gs of glutamine per serving, which is more than enough if consumed daily. As far as glutamine being a wonder substance, unfortunately there is no such thing short of direct steroids or hgh supplementation. When considering other essential amino acids such as the aforementioned l-lysine, l-arginine etc as hgh boosters, you have to look at the big picture. All proteins are made up of amino acids, so when you eat steak, for example, you are consuming these amino acids. Specific amino acid intake will not increase hgh levels nearly as much as specific exercises such as deadlifts, squats, and bench presses. If you want the highest possible hgh levels, work out using primarily compound exercises (exercises that include more than one joint-set in the motion, if you need more information just pm me), drink 2-4 servings of whey protein (2 directly after a workout) a day along with 5-6 complete meals, and get a lot of sleep. The two times your body creates HGH are when you workout, and when you sleep. The more fibers you stimulate, the more hgh produced (hence compound exercises). Also, take GABA an hour before you go to bed, it is an HGH precursor that will increase hgh levels and also help you sleep. Sorry if that was a little much, but Pm me if you have any questions. One more thing, another added bonus of Optimum Nutrition’s protein is that it contains Branched-Chain Amino Acids, which are amino acids that have yet to pick their specific form.they are floaters per say. These BCAAs fill in the gaps where amino acids are needed and do the best job of supplying the correct amino acids at the correct time.

Yeah optimum whey 100% gold is the best protein I’ve ever had. I have seen much better results using this than others. It has won awards from bodybuilding.com,

I know it would make sense to apply the logic of bodybuilding to PE, however the penis isn’t a muscle. I’m defining muscle by the following definition:

1) A tissue composed of fibers capable of contracting to effect bodily movement.

Here’s the discrepancy: although the penis does have fibers, they do not expand, they do not contract either, and lastly they do not effect a bodily movement. The penis’s blood chambers do become engorged with blood which causes it’s volume to drastically increase during an erection (which is not muscular expanding, ex. Flexing your arm [that is contracting anyway]), however it is dissimilar to the process in which muscles experience.

Lastly, a muscle’s function is to move a specific bone, part, or bodily substance, however wouldn’t you agree that it is more logical that the penis is what is being moved (by the muscles at the base of the groin area and the BC), as opposed to what is doing the moving?

-M.C.543

High dosages of ginseng will drop your blood pressure to the floor. I’m more concerned about if he got a paper cut he would bleed out. Now if these are not standardised dosages of ginkgo or ginseng then it is not as bad as it may be. Beings standardised is far more potent that non-standardised herbal formulas.

Actually I was more focused on the 1000mg of L-Arginine ingested daily. For many people, that could cause unsafe blood pressure levels, especially one who seems to have a heightened level of physical activity. Arginine at that dosage needs to be cycled within 7 day macros, as system buildup ends up retaining much higher levels than simply the day to day 1000 mg ingestion.

Interesting because I read an article by Bill Phillips back in the early EAS body for life days that recomended dosages up to 10,000 mg per day of L-Arginine. The NOS item I am taking currently recomends 3,000 pre workout and another 3,000 post workout. The only item that has caused me blood pressure issues has been Test enanthate above 300mg. I will try to find that article, not sure if I still have the supplements guide or not. It was very interesting because it included lab testing of marketed supplements. I was suprised to learn that even some Weider products did not contain the dosages of ingredients that they claimed.

L-arginine and your weiner!

United States Patent: 6,565,851

Issued: May 20, 2003

Inventors: Rohdewald; Peter (Munster, DE); Ferrari; Victor (Feutersoey, CH)

Assignee: Horphag Research Limited (Geneva, CH)

Appl. No.: 865189

Filed: May 24, 2001

Abstract

Use of proanthocyanidins as an active ingredient of a stimulator as a source of arginine and a source of nitric oxide in the treatment of erectile dysfunction. The active ingredient stimulates the endothelial NO-synthase enzyme, which acts as a catalyst for the synthesis of nitric oxide from its substrate L-arginine or its salts. The nitric oxide in turn activates theguanylyl cyclase, which leads to an increased development of cyclic guanosine monophosphate, which causes relaxation of smooth muscles. Blood vessel diameter may increase. The stimulator may also have Sildenafil or enzymes that inhibit an enzyme phosphodiesterase type5 from reducing an amount of the cyclic guanosine monophosphate. The substrate may be amino acid L-arginine, arginine salts or a dipeptide of arginine and aspartic acid.

DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION

Due to its content of proanthocyanidins, Pycnogenol.RTM. food supplement—and other vegetable extracts containing proanthocyanidins—is often used as a preventive measure against atherosclerosis and venous insufficiency. Up until the publication on Apr. 6, 2000 of German Patent Application No. 19845 314.0, it was not predictable that this food supplement could also specifically be used for the treatment of erectile dysfunction. Surprisingly, it turned out that the proanthocyanidins have a stimulating effect on the endothelial NO-synthase enzyme and thus serves as a stimulator.

The remedy preferably contains a mixture of proanthocyanidins from 50 to 100%, preferably 70%. The effective dosage of proanthocyanidins is 100 to 300 mg, preferably 200 mg.

The dosage amount refers to the daily dose for a male patient weighing 70 kg. For a male patient weighing less than 70 kg, the dosage needed to be effective would be lower and may be as low as 40 mg.

The well known pine bark extract Pycnogenol.RTM. food supplement is used as a proanthocyanidins containing remedy for the treatment of erectile dysfunction. In this instance, an application of 125 to 375 mg of Pycnogenol.RTM. food supplement is recommended for a 70 kg male.

As mentioned above, nitric oxide and nitric oxide-synthase play and important part in the erectile physiology. Studies with NOS-inhibitors, such as e.g. L-NORAG or L-NAME, which have been injected intracarvenally, revealed that an erection induced by electro-stimulations was suppressed. Being afterwards injected intravenally, the natural substrate for NOS, i.e., L-arginine, was able to partly recover the erection (Jung et al., Yondei Med. J. 1997, 3 (5), 261-269). The simultaneous injection of NOS-inhibitors and L-arginine led to a suppression of the effect of the inhibitors. Although L-arginine as a natural substrate of the endothelial NO-synthase enzyme is—as mentioned previously—able to partly decrease the effect of the NOS-inhibitors, it yet has not been taken into account as a remedy to promote the erectility.

According to the invention, the preferred remedy in addition to the proanthocyanidins also contains L-arginine (or its salts) as an effective component in an amount of at least 0.5 to 2 g. According to the invention, the combination of proanthocyanidins with L-arginine (or its salts) is particularly efficient. The L-arginine (or its salts) is the natural substrate for the nitric oxide synthase.

The active ingredients proanthocyanidins and L-arginine (or its salts) may be taken simultaneously that for maximum effect and benefit in treating erectile dysfunction. In addition, additional ingredients may include further pharmaceutically acceptable auxiliary or carrier substances, so far as they are, for example, used to get the active substance into the shape suitable for the desired medication.

Surprisingly, proanthocyanidins have a selective and specific effect on the blood vessels in the erectile tissue so that a remedy containing proanthocyanidins can preferably be given orally. As such, the remedy according to the invention thus exists in a form suitable for oral medication.

When taken with a known oral treatment remedy for erectile dysfunction, i.e., sildenafil (Viagra), proanthocyanidins help stimulate the endothelial NO-synthase enzyme, which serves as a catalyst for synthesis of nitric oxide from the substrate L-arginine or its salts. The released nitric oxide activates the guanylyl cyclase, leading to an increase in cGMP, which causes relaxation of smooth muscles, which in turn is the condition needed for increased blood supply. Thus, taking proanthocyanidins and L-arginine or its salts would complement the taking of sildenafil (Viagra) in the treatment of erectile dysfunction.

In addition, there are other substances that are available that have the same, or substantially the same, mechanism of action as sildenafil. These other substances, which may be considered inhibitors, are formed to inhibit phosphodiesterase type 5 and/or prevent the decrease of cGMP. The taking of proanthocyanidins and L-arginine (or its salts) would complement these other substances by countering the persistent inability of a man with erectile dysfunction to get an erection and to maintain it long enough for satisfying sexual intercourse.

A clinical study was conducted on forty participants who had erectile dysfunction. The study involved the effect of taking arginine asparatate, which is a salt of arginine with aspartic acid. One gram of arginine asparatate contains 566.85 mg of arginine.

The participants were grouped according to their variant of disturbed erection. The variants are in five categories: weakened, delayed, hesitating, losing and normal. The “weakened” variant signifies that the penis increases in size and becomes hard to a certain extent, but it is not enough to enter the vagina. The “delayed” variant signifies that if it is possible for the penis to become hard enough to enter the vagina, but such may require additional time. The “hesitating” variant signifies that before or after sexual contact, the erection is unstable and thus makes the sexual intercourse more difficult. The `losing” variant signifies that during the love game there is good erection, but such is lost when trying to make contact or during intercourse. The “normal” variant signifies that no appreciable disturbed erection was present.

The clinical study was over three months. During the first month, only 3 doses of 1000 milligrams (mg) of arginine asparatate (Sargenor) were administered daily to each participant. By the end of the first month, there was improvement in erectile dysfunction in about 10% of the participants. During the second month, 2 doses of 40 mg of Pycnogenol.RTM. food supplement were administered daily to each participant, together with the 3 doses of 1000 mg of arginine asparatate. By the end of the second month, there was a statistically significant improvement of erectile dysfunction in 80% of the participants. During the third month, 3 doses of 40 mg of Pycnogenol.RTM. food supplement were administered daily to each participant, together with the 3 doses of 1000 mg of arginine asparatate. By the end of the third month, there was further improvement of the erectile dysfunction condition even for some of the participants who had not shown improvement during the second month. Overall, there was a statistically significant improvement of erectile dysfunction in 92% of the treated participants.

The following statistical analysis of the results from the clinical study calculate the probability of whether the observed differences between two treatments are statistically significant at a certain level.

After 1 After 2 After 3
Variants of month months months
Disturbed Before A only A + P A + P
Erection n D n D n D n D
Weakened 22 (55%) 20 (50%) NS 5 (12.5%)* 2 (5%)**
Delayed 12 (30%) 10 (25%) NS 2 (5%)* 0 (0%)**
Hesitating 2 (5%) 4 (10%) NS 1 (2.5%)* 1 (2.5%)**
Losing 4 (10%) 4 (10%) NS 0 (0%)* 0 (0%)**
Normal 0 (0%) 2 (5%) NS 32 (80%)*** 37 (92.5%)**
*p < 0.05
**p < 0.01
***p < 0.001

NS=not significant, n=number of participants/patients, D=percent distribution, A=arginine asparatate (each month at 3 dosesx1000 mg daily), P=Pycnogenol.RTM. food supplement (2nd month at 2 dosesx40 mg daily, 3rd month at 3 dosesx40 mg daily), p=probability.

In view of the clinical trial results, a dosage between 200 mg and 2 g of arginine per day together with a dosage of 60-360 mg of Pycnogenol.RTM. food supplement per day would be a therapeutically effective amount to relieve erectile dysfunction. According to the clinical study, the amount of arginine administered per day was about 1.7 grams, which is computed on the basis that 3 doses were taken of arginine asparatate, with each dose containing 566.85 mg of arginine.

The clinical trial used Caucasian men as the participants and the results show that 80-120 mg of Pycnogenol.RTM. food supplement is effective. For men with a lower body weight as compared to Caucasians, such as some Asians, positive results would be expected with a lower dosage. A dosage as low as 40 mg Pycnogenol.RTM. food supplement would be expected to be effective. Also, turning to the higher dosage level, one must consider that a small portion of the population is of tall height and overweight, which is expected to need a higher dosage to be effective. The highest dosage of Pycnogenol.RTM. food supplement used so far in other clinical trials (against edema of the lower legs) was 360 mg daily. The dosage of 300 mg is within the dosage range which had been tested clinically and one can expect that men with overweight and oversize need such a higher dose. Therefore, a dosage range of 40 mg-300 mg of Pycnogenol.RTM. food supplement would be effective, with the amount of the dosage that would be effective within the range depending upon the body weight of the man taking it.

Of course the same arguments hold for L-arginine and its salts. For men of lower body weight, a dosage of L-arginine or its salts as low as 200 mg would be effective and for men of greater body weight, a dosage of L-arginine or its salts as high as 2 grams would be effective. Thus, a range of 200 mg to 2 grams of L-arginine or its salts is effective depending upon the body weight and size of the man taking it. The effects of arginine are also dependent on the dosage and on the time elapsed between intake and sexual activity. The clinical study was based on daily intake only and did not specify any particular dosing intervals or prescribe a dosage regimen instruction for the patient participants to take, such as taking a certain amount of arginine at a defined period of time before sexual activity. Such instruction would be expected to better optimize the effectiveness of treating erectile dysfunction with these substances.

The dosage of Pycnogenol.RTM. food supplement may be 1-1.5 mg/kg and the dosage of L-arginine may be 15-40 mg/kg, preferably taken simultaneously to maximize their effectiveness in treating erectile dysfunction.

The reference to NO-synthase in this application is with respect to endothelial nitric oxide synthase, as opposed to inducible nitric oxide. The inducible nitric oxide synthase acts in an entirely different way and on a different place as the endothelial nitric oxide synthase.

The inducible nitric oxide synthase is produced in macrophages, white blood cells, which use the produced nitric oxide as one of their weapons against virus or bacteria, it is an inflammatory response. The endothelial nitric oxide regulates physiologically the vascular diameter and it is this enzyme which regulates erectile function.

Various changes and modifications may be made to the embodiments without departing from the spirit and scope of the present invention.

Claim 1 of 17 Claims

We claim:

1. A method of relieving symptoms of erectile dysfunction by stimulating nitric oxide (NO) synthase enzyme and releasing nitric oxide, comprising administering both proanthocyanidins and a substrate, which is a source of arginine and, subsequently, of nitric oxide; stimulating an endothelial NO-synthase enzyme with the proanthocyanidins; and releasing the nitric oxide from the substrate in response to the stimulated endothelial NO-synthase enzyme acting as a catalyst for synthesis of the nitric oxide, the proanthocyanidins and the substrate each being in therapeutically effective amounts to cause a sufficient amount of the nitric oxide to be released from the synthesis to relieve symptoms of erectile dysfunction.

First post! Hello.

One. Bodybuilding and penisbuilding

But doesn’t heavy lifting with compound movements drastically increase testosterone levels for hours afterwards? Also, during an intense workout you’re also forcing your cardiovascular system to work extremely hard. I know lifting isn’t technically aerobic but I certainly gasp for air after heavy squats! I feel my heart pumping blood like it was trying to douse a fire by gushing blood over it.

Plus, like the penis, girls love the look of quality bulk (ie not fat!).. Why? Like someone mentioned earlier, a large penis you can tell is a healthy penis. Large skeletal muscles I think also produce the same unconscious response to outright displays of impressive health. Result: synergy especially with upper body and calves.

The only two drawbacks are
1. Overtraining - taking tissue building resources away from the unit - making a nutrient rich blood supply all the more important.. Hence the importance of high quality/availability/quickly absorbed protein shakes.

2. Big thighs (my curse, but I’m addicted to squats) squash your testicles and make the penis seem relatively smaller- ie visually, you have three things now competing for attention - abnormally large penis, and abnormally large thighs! Hence the sum is less than it’s parts here. Aaargh! I have considered abandoning all leg exercises and increasing low intensity cardio, but this is boring and doesn’t give you a satisfying immediate result. However, anything that exercises the heart should be a good thing. So if you have a LOT of free-time, why not workout 5 hours a day like Bruce Lee, assuming this doesn’t force you into catabolism! (Eat, boys, eat!)

Two (tangential and racist thought) Bruce Lee’s package
We all know he was fantastically fit, but was his penis also in exemplary condition
(Hence large)?
I don’t know.. I’ve seen only a few pictures of him, and my eyes were too busy admiring showpiece features (ripped abs/ intensely low bodyfat levels) rather than checking to see if he had a bulge or not. He married and kept a white woman in those earlier times, and I can’t imagine that he was a fun person to live with.

Three (conjecture): N.O. Supplementation, benefits some, bad or irrelevant for others?

I worry about the effects of long term N.O. Supplementation, because are you not severing the brain-muscle link by taking external sources of N.O.? Ie - the body learns that mental arousal is not a precondition to N.O. Circulation.. Could this produce erection problems at some future date?

For the short term, maybe N.O. Is beneficial for sedentary persons, for whom the brain-body link is probably already somewhat atrophied? In physical therapy and rehabilition, they speak of muscle ‘re-education,’ which I assume means re-establishing the neural circuits that were neglected and made dormant by long periods of bed-rest, etc. In the short-term though, N.O. Could start of a ‘virtuous upwards cycle’ by increasing blood circulation all over the body, partly eliminating the problem of inducing motor activity in a weakened (and/or extremely lazy) individual and hence freely give a precondition to regaining health, and reversing function and atrophy.

For very fit individuals, there may be not need N.O.
Through their training they’ve already got a well-grooved NO release response? So maybe for them they don’t feel any different on N.O. As it does not actually add anything.. Assuming NO supplementation boils down to basically partly mimicking the cardiovasular environment of very well-trained men.

Four (silly analogies warning): drugs are bad!

I think in general,, if you’re already in great physical condition it’s better to avoid ginkgo biloba, ginseng, or anything that usurps the central nervous system’s control of bloodflow by actually crossing the blood-brain barrier chemically messing around with it’s natural mechanisms. I think the body and the brain always wants homeostasis, hence the challenged involved in forcing anything to act differently or grow larger or stretching any human limits in euphoria, happiness, etc. Physically (ergogenically spreaking) we evolved to be a certain size for good reasons, assuming we came from rodent-like things that were small enough to survive whatever fucked off the dinosaurs (another interesting question). In evolutionary terms, we as the entire animal kingdom are much like the stock markets after the Great Depression; tentatively, slowly creeping back to larger/higher sizes. In the wild, large anything is not necessarily better for survival.
The brain also possessing an extremely strong homeostatic mechanism. This is why you may develop physical dependence on any drug that RAPIDLY forces the stimulation of parts of the brain - it tries to fight back and return to baseline conditions by reducing or downcycling itself. That’s why once you stop crack or coke or heroin, you feel like SHIT for weeks, because the brain has just been bludgeoned (raped?I.e. Made to act against it’s ‘will’ – abnormally euphoric, abnormally active, etc) and it’s own mechanism have shrunk. Which, incidentally, is another side-effect of amphetamines, even Ritalin or Adderall.

P.S.
The one thing I have learned for sure in my life is that I’m actually wrong most of the time no matter how certain I feel, so I fully appreciate and do not mind in the least anyone who rips me a new one for bad logic/non-sequitors or other foolishness! But I hope it was at least mentally stimulating for youz. And I apologize for any sloppiness in coherence. As an ex-drug addict it takes me some time to impose order on my thoughts at times. I have tried my best to slow down the writing of this post and improve the quality of my communication.

Just to elaborate on my Bruce Lee comment, which, after a later re-read, I found conveys my thoughts badly. It was a little joke saying well, having a successful am/wf marriage back then, he must have had a big cock as well! Obviously I don’t know. Also, it shouldn’t matter, but I’m east asian (korean) myself and I lived in his home town.