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Dad is weak; Can T help?

Yeah, strike that comment about my showing up with books and papers. Although I may bring Morgentaler’s book, since it’s featured on this doctor’s website :) .

I had a great visit with my father. He’s made some progress with his personal trainer. His body definitely looks better, but he’s still very weak and fell twice in the last week (!). Fortunately, he has a hard head.

He wants to take ownership of the decision to go on T therapy. Fortunately, he and I are in agreement, so the ownership issue is really a moot point. I think he realizes that I have some hesitation about being responsible for it (not being a doctor and all), and I think he wants to protect me from that. He’ll see the doctor in just over a week, and the treatment decision will be between him and his doctor. I take responsibility for finding a doc who is open minded about T; the rest is up to them.

I deliberately tried to manage his expectations. I want to set the bar low so that any progress at all is cause for celebration, but nothing more than incremental progress is expected. I also passed along to him your cautions that sorting out all the issues with his hormones could take a while. He’s okay with that.

Another possible breakthrough of the trip was discovering he can go off his BP meds. He’s been taking Hytrin, both for BP control and BPH. This year, he’s developed a bad case of urinary incontinence. I found something online that said that Hytrin is a smooth muscle relaxant, and that one possible side effect is that it can over-relax the urinary sphincters and cause incontinence. Dad called his doc and asked to switch to a different med. The doc said he didn’t need the Hytrin and could just stop it. I bought him a bottle of saw palmetto to help with the BPH. I hope it helps.

As for Shippen’s book, I really hope he decides to update it. His chapter on testosterone and women no longer rings true, in light of new data about women and HRT. I loved the book but agree it needs an upgrade.

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How about just using natural foods and other methods to help boost testosterone. Just changing some diet habits can make a big difference. For instance, does your Dad eat grapefruit? Eating grapefruit can block your livers ability to eliminate excess estrogen from the body. I incorporate most all of this into my lifestyle, it is not that hard:

http://www.nowl … ng-steroids.htm

13 ways to naturally Increase your testosterone:

1. Get more Zinc

Zinc is very important for the production of natural testosterone because Zinc prevents testosterone from being converted into estrogen (the female hormone) by making the enzyme aromatase not work (look at #3 below) plus…

Zinc itself turns estrogen into testosterone and Zinc helps produce healthier sperm and higher sperm counts so actually… Low levels of zinc can cause low testosterone levels.

Foods high in Zinc include oysters (a natural aphrodisiac), beef, liver, crab, seafood, poultry, nuts and seeds, salmon, brown rice, cheese, pine nuts, beans, turkey, milk, yogurt, and cottage cheese or you can supplement with at least 50-to-100mg of Zinc daily

2. Eat more healthy fats

Research has shown that men who ate diets rich in healthy fats like monounsaturated fats & Omega-3 fats had the highest testosterone levels so…

You can naturally raise your testosterone levels by adding more healthy fats by eating more nuts & seeds, fatty fish like salmon & tuna, avocados, olives, vegetable oils, and natural peanut butter and…

Eating a very low-fat diet can actually lead to lowered testosterone levels because your body needs healthy fats in order to produce testosterone but…

This doesn’t mean you need to eat a REAL HIGH fat diet - Just make sure at least 20-to-30% of your total daily calories comes from healthy fats.

3. Lose body fat

The more overweight you are or the higher your body fat percentage is = The higher your estrogen levels will be because body fat contains an enzyme called aromatase that converts your ‘manly’ testosterone into ‘womanly’ estrogen making your testosterone levels drop so…

Go on a weight loss workout program to lower body fat, reduce estrogen and increase testosterone and…

Try not to Diet or cut too many calories when trying to lose body fat because you don’t want your body going into starvation or survival mode which will cause your body to stop making testosterone so whenever you’re trying to lose fat & increase testosterone at the same time…

Make sure you focus on losing 1-to-3 pounds of fat a week mainly thru weight loss exercise.

4. Get rid of excess estrogen

To get rid of excess estrogen that makes you fatter & weaker so your body can naturally produce more testosterone…

You can eat more RAW cruciferous vegetables like broccoli, cabbage, and cauliflower because cruciferous vegetables contain a chemical called diindolylmethane (or DIM) that helps your body get rid of excess estrogen and… You can supplement with DIM to flush out excess estrogen or eat these other sources of cruciferous vegetables like Brussels sprouts, bok choi, radishes, turnips, collard greens, and kale and…
You can eat more fiber to naturally cleanse your body and flush out toxins that cause you to have excess estrogen (like the xenoestrogens from #5 below) - Most fruits & vegetables, nuts & beans are all high in fiber and…
You can also supplement with Red grape skin extract (resveratrol) to help your liver remove excess estrogen.

5. Try to avoid Xenoestrogens

Xenoestrogens are man-made estrogens that are found in things like pesticides, artificial growth hormones & steroids, air fresheners and plastic containers and these xenoestrogens will increase your levels of the female hormone estrogen while lowering testosterone so…

Eat more organic fruits & vegetables that are free of pesticides and if you do buy your fruits & vegetables at a regular grocery store… Make sure you wash them to lower your chances of consuming any xenoestrogens and…
Eat more naturally raised meats instead of eating beef, chicken, pork and even milk that was raised using artificial growth hormones and steroids and…
Use glass products to store food & water instead of plastic since plastic products tend to produce xenoestrogens that’ll get into your water & food especially when heated and… Even some canned foods contain plastic coatings that contain xenoestrogens and…
Don’t use any perfumes, colognes, or air fresheners that have parabens listed as one of the ingredients. Parabens are xenoestrogens.
Please note: It’ll be fairly hard for you to 100% completely avoid all xenoestrogens but if you follow the other tips on this page (especially tips #3 & #4) - You’ll still be able to naturally increase your testosterone while getting rid of excess estrogen without having to worry so much about trying to avoid xenoestrogens and…

Also note: Since most xenoestrogens accumulate in your body fat - your best defense against xenoestrogens is to lose body fat (look at #3 again)

6. Get at least 6-to-8 hours of Sleep every night

A university of Chicago study showed that men who got little sleep had way lower testosterone levels than men who got 6-to-8 hours of sleep and… According to a University of North Carolina study… Your testosterone levels can drop down by as much as 40 PERCENT when you don’t get enough sleep and generally…

Your testosterone levels are 30% higher in the morning than in the evening and this is why you may be more horny in the mornings and as a matter of fact…

A loss of morning erections or loss of sexual desire in the morning could be a sign that your testosterone is declining so you need to get 6-to-8 hours of sleep every night because while you’re sleeping…

Your body produces the most testosterone and the better you sleep the more testosterone your body will produce while you sleep so if you’re having trouble getting 6-to-8 hours of good quality ‘testosterone producing’ sleep every night - Look at 33 Secrets to a Good Night’s Sleep

7. Stress Less

When you get stressed out - your body releases a “stress” hormone called cortisol that shuts down testosterone production…

Research led by Population Council endocrinologist Matthew Hardy found that stress hormones like cortisol overpower the enzymes responsible for ensuring that cells in the testes produce testosterone
Cortisol also makes you gain belly fat and you already know from #3 above that the fatter you are = you’ll have more estrogen and less testosterone so…

You need to stop worrying about the little things, avoid overtraining, control your temper and look at these ways to lower stress and Being more positive can reduce your stress levels and increase Testosterone…

A recent study found that fans of a losing team had 50 percent lower levels of testosterone after their team lost and fans had up to 100% higher levels of testosterone after their team won.
Taking a natural supplement like Ashwagandha can also help reduce cortisol.

8. Take 1000-to-1500mg of Vitamin C per day

Now if you have a hard time avoiding stress - you want to start taking 1000-to-1500mg of Vitamin C per day because…

Vitamin C has been shown to lower cortisol levels allowing your body to make more Testosterone and like Zinc…
Vitamin C reduces the armostase enzyme that converts your Testosterone into Estrogen.

9. Workout like a man

You can force your body to produce a lot of testosterone when you…

Do Compound exercises that train several large muscle groups like Power Cleans, Squats, Deadlifts, Bench presses, Chin-ups, Dips, and Military presses and you can still do isolation exercises like triceps extensions, bicep curls or chest flyes for definition but if trying to boost your Testosterone and build more muscle quickly - stick with compound exercises and…
According to a Swedish study… To get the biggest boost in testosterone when you do your compound exercises… Make sure you use heavy weights that will allow you to only do about 3-to-5 reps per set and you want to do about 5-to-8 sets of each compound exercise you do but…
You also want to limit your workout time on those compound exercises to 1-to-2 hours so just do only 1-to-2 compound exercises followed by a few optional isolation exercises twice a week (Mon. & Thur. for example) and as for burning fat…
Avoid ‘sissy cardio’ where you walk or run for long periods of time and start doing Manly Cardio workouts like Hill sprints and intervals 3-to-4 times a week and limit your long duration sissy cardio workouts to only 2 times a week and…
Make extra sure that you rest harder than you work out because overtraining leads to more cortisol and lower testosterone (see #7 again) and you may need to get 8+ hours of sleep to allow your body to recuperate and produce more testosterone after you workout like a man (see #6 again) and…

10. Try to get Sexually Stimulated as much as possible

If you’re not getting sexual stimulated or sexual aroused very much right now (especially if you’re over 40)… You can dramatically boost your testosterone levels by getting sexually stimulated more often so basically…

You need to start doing almost anything you can to get a sexually stimulating ‘Viagra free’ erection and German scientists even found that simply having an erection causes your levels of circulating testosterone to rise significantly and look at how these other 3 studies prove how much your testosterone can rise after getting sexual stimulated…

In a study done by Ludwig Boltzmann Institute for Urban Ethology in Vienna… 10 men viewed a 15 minute pornographic film and the men’s testosterone levels increased 100 percent afterwards.

Another study published by Psychoneuroendocrinology used sexually arousing films on 9 males and testosterone levels increased within 10 minutes of sexually arousal.

In a study published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior… Testosterone was measured every 15 min for 3 hours in 8 men before, during, and after the showing of a sexually explicit movie and there was an average increase of 35% in testosterone so…
Not getting sexual stimulated or aroused for long periods of time can actually decrease your testosterone levels so if you find it hard to get sexually stimulated… You can do all the other 12 things on this page to increase your testosterone which will increase your sex drive or libido making you get sexually stimulated much easier and/or…

You can take a supplement like Horny Goat Weed to make you get sexually stimulated more easier to ramp up your testosterone levels.

11. Make sure you’re getting enough vitamin A, B & E

Vitamins A, B, E (along with Vitamin C & zinc) are all essential in the production of testosterone and not getting enough A, B, & E Vitamins will lead to lower testosterone levels but… If you’re eating plenty of fruits & veggies, lean meats and nuts then you shouldn’t have to worry too much about supplementing with any extra A, B, & E Vitamins.

12. Don’t overheat your testicles (your balls)

Your testicles need to be 94-to-96 degrees or about 2 degrees cooler than your body temperature to function at it’s best and produce the most testosterone so…

If you’re wearing tight underwear, tight pants, take long HOT baths or do anything thing else to overheat your testicles… You may inhibit your testosterone production so it’s best to wear looser clothes like boxers to prevent overheating your balls and did you also know that…

Carrying around excess fat also overheats your testicles so look at #3 again for how to burn fat.

13. Don’t Drink any Alcohol & Don’t eat any Grapefruit

Even if you had only 2 drinks a day… Alcohol makes it hard for your liver to breakdown estrogen making you have more estrogen & less testosterone which will cause you to become more woman-like by making you loose facial & pubic hair, get man boobs and become impotent and…

Alcohol decrease zinc levels in your body (look at #1 again) an just like alcohol - Grapefruits can also make it hard for your liver to breakdown estrogen.

The primary goal of PE should be to make your penis as healthy as possible in both form and function. If you do that, increased size will follow.

Last edited by gprent : 02-22-2010 at .

Great stuff, Gprent. Actually, those suggestions sound perfect for me! I haven’t had my T checked (my doctor thinks it’s unwarranted), but I don’t feel quite as intense and chipper as I used to. A natural T boost would be a welcome change to my life.

As for my Dad, he’s so frail and doctor-dependent right now that I would rather start out going down the medical route with an open-minded MD. If the doc thinks he’s a marginal case (which I doubt he will at this point), then the natural approach might be good for him. But I suspect he may need more radical adjustments. We’ll see. The appointment is 1 week from today.

Meanwhile, I think I’ll start on your program ;) .

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J Sex Med. 2009 Feb;6(2):574-7.
Two years of testosterone therapy associated with decline in prostate-specific antigen in a man with untreated prostate cancer.
Morgentaler A.

Harvard Medical School, Urology, Brookline, MA, USA.
INTRODUCTION: Testosterone (T) therapy has long been considered contraindicated in men with prostate cancer (PCa). However, the traditional view regarding the relationship of T to PCa has come under new scrutiny, with recent reports suggesting that PCa growth may not be greatly affected by variations in serum T within the near-physiologic range. AIM: This report details the clinical and prostate-specific antigen (PSA) response of a man with untreated PCa treated with T therapy for 2 years. METHODS: Measurements of serum PSA, total and free T concentrations were obtained at regular intervals at baseline and following initiation of T therapy. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE: Serum PSA during T therapy. RESULTS: An 84-year-old man was seen for symptoms of hypogonadism, with serum total T within the normal range at 400 ng/dL, but with a reduced free T of 7.4 pg/mL (radioimmunoassay [RIA], reference range 10.0-55.0). PSA was 8.5 ng/mL, and 8.1 ng/mL when repeated. Prostate biopsy revealed Gleason 6 cancer in both lobes. He refused treatment for PCa, but requested T therapy, which was initiated with T gel after informed consent regarding possible cancer progression. Serum T increased to a mean value of 699 ng/dL and free T to 17.1 pg/mL. PSA declined to a nadir of 5.2 ng/mL at 10 months, increased slightly to 6.2 ng/mL at 21 months, and then declined to 3.8 ng/mL at 24 months after addition of dutasteride for voiding symptoms. No clinical PCa progression was noted. CONCLUSION: A decline in PSA was noted in a man with untreated PCa who received T therapy for 2 years. This case provides support for the notion that PCa growth may not be adversely affected by changes in serum T beyond the castrate or near-castrate range.

PMID: 19215619 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Two years of testosterone therapy associated with decline in prostate-specific antigen in a man with untreated prostate cancer - PubMed

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J Urol. 2009 Mar;181(3):972-9. Epub 2009 Jan 16.
Testosterone therapy in men with prostate cancer: scientific and ethical considerations.
Morgentaler A.

Men’s Health Boston and the Department of Urology, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts, USA.
PURPOSE: Pertinent literature regarding the potential use of testosterone therapy in men with prostate cancer is reviewed and synthesized. MATERIALS AND METHODS: A literature search was performed of English language publications on testosterone administration in men with a known history of prostate cancer and investigation of the effects of androgen concentrations on prostate parameters, especially prostate specific antigen. RESULTS: The prohibition against the use of testosterone therapy in men with a history of prostate cancer is based on a model that assumes the androgen sensitivity of prostate cancer extends throughout the range of testosterone concentrations. Although it is clear that prostate cancer is exquisitely sensitive to changes in serum testosterone at low concentrations, there is considerable evidence that prostate cancer growth becomes androgen indifferent at higher concentrations. The most likely mechanism for this loss of androgen sensitivity at higher testosterone concentrations is the finite capacity of the androgen receptor to bind androgen. This saturation model explains why serum testosterone appears unrelated to prostate cancer risk in the general population and why testosterone administration in men with metastatic prostate cancer causes rapid progression in castrated but not hormonally intact men. Worrisome features of prostate cancer such as high Gleason score, extracapsular disease and biochemical recurrence after surgery have been reported in association with low but not high testosterone. In 6 uncontrolled studies results of testosterone therapy have been reported after radical prostatectomy, external beam radiation therapy or brachytherapy. In a total of 111 men 2 (1.8%) biochemical recurrences were observed. Anecdotal evidence suggests that testosterone therapy does not necessarily cause increased prostate specific antigen even in men with untreated prostate cancer. CONCLUSIONS: Although no controlled studies have been performed to date to document the safety of testosterone therapy in men with prostate cancer, the limited available evidence suggests that such treatment may not pose an undue risk of prostate cancer recurrence or progression.

PMID: 19150547 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Testosterone therapy in men with prostate cancer: scientific and ethical considerations - PubMed

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J Sex Med. 2008 Aug;5(8):1834-40. Epub 2008 Jun 10.
Guilt by association: a historical perspective on Huggins, testosterone therapy, and prostate cancer.
Morgentaler A.

Men’s Health Boston, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA 02445, USA.
INTRODUCTION: A long-standing belief is that higher testosterone (T) will increase the risk of prostate cancer (PCa), yet recent studies do not support this view. AIM: To identify the key historical and scientific events leading to the establishment and persistence of the belief in a T-dependent model of PCa growth, despite evidence to the contrary. METHODS: Review of key historical scientific articles regarding T and PCa. RESULTS: The T-dependent model of PCa growth arose from the work of Huggins and coworkers, who in 1941 demonstrated dramatic responses to castration among men with advanced PCa. These authors and others also reported a rapid clinical progression with T administration. This led to the concept that T was like “food for a hungry tumor” for men with PCa. Fowler and Whitmore recognized in 1981 that the negative effect of T administration did not occur unless men had been previously castrated. However, this critical observation was either forgotten or dismissed amid major changes in PCa diagnosis and management during the 1980s. More recent studies have failed to provide clinical evidence supporting the belief that higher T represents a risk for PCa. Factors contributing to the persistence of the T-dependent model included dramatic effects of castration, continued use of androgen deprivation for treatment of PCa, an influential spokesperson (Huggins), groupthink (failure to acknowledge evidence inconsistent with the prevalent ideology), and an imprecise formulation of the model (“more T, more cancer growth”), making refutation difficult. CONCLUSIONS: The fear that higher T will increase PCa growth stems from a theory of T-dependent PCa growth that originated with observations in a special population (castrated men) that is not particularly relevant to T therapy in hypogonadal men. The negative view of T with regard to PCa should be recognized for what it is—guilt by association.

PMID: 18547385 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Guilt by association: a historical perspective on Huggins, testosterone therapy, and prostate cancer - PubMed

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Originally Posted by gprent
How about just using natural foods and other methods to help boost testosterone… . . Grapefruits can also make it hard for your liver to breakdown estrogen.

Bloody good info buddy. I’ve read it all before, but seeing it in one post like this, NO. Well written and to the point. Two things though. Most of this tread is about an 83-year old man who is clearly suffering Free TT deficiency. Much of what you’ve written won’t apply to him. BUT IT CERTAINLY WILL TO JUST ABOUT EVERYONE ESLE ON THIS FORUM. Secondly, my one possible disagreement — the evidence for Horny Goat Weed is not good (ignoring what’s written on the box). Well, from my reading anyway and, especially if you’re suffering Free TT deficiency. For that, there are other much better things available.

Otherwise, thanks and well done.

Hey ModestoMan, that’s good stuff you’ve presented there on Prostate Cancer. Thanks. I knew the evidence that high TT caused Prostate Cancer was not good, but you’ve added to my arsenal.

There’s a lot more where that came from. Just log onto PubMed and search for “Morgentaler prostate” and you’ll find pages of links to studies debunking the connection between T and prostate cancer.

The only connection that seems to be holding up is that castrated men, who have virtually no T, have a lower incidence of prostate cancer than men with intact, working testes. But above that very small level (which falls short of the “normal range”), variations in T level make no difference to prostate cancer risk. On the other hand, prostate cancer risk appears to be strongly correlated with serum levels of estradiol.

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Originally Posted by ModestoMan
… . On the other hand, prostate cancer risk appears to be strongly correlated with serum levels of estradiol.

My point exactly and why I’m taking Arimidex. It works wonders. However, you do have to be careful because you do need some oestrogen. Don’t overdose and monitor what you’re doing with 3-monthly blood tests.

Thanks for all your research. There’s some very good stuff there.

Dad’s appointment is tomorrow. He’s really hoping to receive T therapy, and is extremely eager to get better. His quality of life has hit rock bottom. I just hope this works …

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Good news! The doc gave my father a thumbs-up on T therapy, based on my dad’s symptoms and low free T levels. He wants to check PSA, estradiol, and SHBG first. Assuming no huge problems, my dad will be starting T therapy within the next month.

He wants to use the implantable pellets instead of the gel or shots. The pellets are about the size of rice grains. 10 or so of them are implanted under the skin of the buttocks via a tiny incision. They last for 3 or 4 months before they need to be replaced.

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Do you mind telling me the name off these pellets?

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
He wants to use the implantable pellets instead of the gel or shots. The pellets are about the size of rice grains. 10 or so of them are implanted under the skin of the buttocks via a tiny incision. They last for 3 or 4 months before they need to be replaced.

As I think I’ve said, I use the gel because it is applied every day and I never run out in my body. While the implants might be more convenient, especially for your Dad, he is likely to run out of TT BEFORE the next implant is inserted. That can be a real downer for him — well, so I’m told.

Also, I strongly recommend 3-monthly blood tests for Progesterone, Prolactin, Oestradiol, FSH, LH, Androstenedione, Total Testosterone, Free Testosterone, Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, Free Androgen Index and DHEAS. You should study up on each of these so you know what to expect and, if it is not right, what the doctor should do about it. Note, both LH and FSH will fall through the floor — that’s OK.

Please, I might not know much about all this, but am happy to share what I do know. PM me or ask here anything you like. Nothing is too personal.

Good luck, brother,


Originally Posted by travkungen
Do you mind telling me the name off these pellets?

These products are usually made locally — in your case, Northern Europe. You need to surf the web. Try with “andropause, testosterone pellets, gels, injections”.


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