Quick question for the board....

I have had a vasectomy. Therefore all of the fluids I ejac. are from the prostate. My prostate is not enlarged and is perfectly normal. I am 62 years of age and had noticed a fall off in ejac. fluids and wanted more. I started on L’Arginine and presto, the fluids started coming out again just like when I was younger. I have had no negative reaction to the dosage which is 500 mg per day and an additional 1000mg 1 hour before we have sex or I decide I want to masturbate or have her masturbate me. It works great.

Hey Penister,

Interesting article. Thanks for the link.

A point the Doc brought up that is different than what is commonly mentioned, that L-Lysine should be avoided, when most mentions of L-Arginine recommend taking L-Lysine to counter the possible increase in Herpes outbreaks.

This article is kind of tied in with the HGH crowd, and I have read on another HGH site that L-Lysine is counterproductive.

I have been taking the L-A, L-L at 500mg, Vitamin C 1000mg a day for over a year and have nothing bad to report. Maybe I’ll try increasing the L-A dose and see what that gets me. Never saw the need to go above 500mg before.

Maybe Merlin can straighten out a few things here.

ThunderSS

Perhaps you may want to give me specific questions per the above.

Merlin

1. Is taking L-Lysine counterproductive concerning the NO effect?

2. Does L-A really increase the likelihood of Herpes outbreaks?

3. Is L-Lysine needed to stop the outbreaks when taking L-A?

4. Why does the Doc in the article say that you will heal faster when taking L-A, but on the other hand, L-A can cause Herpes outbreaks? What happens that causes one type of situation to heal, but the other one to increase?

5. What, in your opinion, is the minimum dosage to have any effect on increasing the HGH output?

uc61la,

That doesn’t sound too good. I’m going to check with an Urologist to see if he has anything to say about it. Anyhow, isn’t it somehwat risky to mess with the prostate considering about 100% of the male population at your age have an enlarged prostate of some sort ? Having said that, I did read some comment on how L-Arginine is good for the prostate, just without any definite information yet.

Merlin,

Some sources claim you should take L-Arginine on a full stomach (or any other amino acid), while others claim you should take it on an empty stomach. What are your thoughts on this ?

PEnister

I have not had any adverse reaction to the L’Arginine. I have taken it on full and empty stomach. I have posted my experiences with this amino acid before.

Amino Acids

Ok, so I read some on Amino Acids, and from what I understand, they compete with each other. So it’s best to take L-Arginine on an empty stomach. Now the question is, what is an empty stomach ? How long after eating ? And if some foods contain alot of Amino Acids, how long after that ?

And how long after taking Arginine, can I be sure that other Amino Acids will be processed from normal food ?

PEnister

I don’t know since I am not a medical professional. My only experience is just taking the 500 mg caps and seeing the ensuing results. That is all I can go by. I can’t recall if I took them on an empty or full stomach. Nor do I know if they competed with any other amino acids that might have been in the food. I kind of think that L’Arginine is a rather benine amino acid. I haven’t read anything that would indicate a negative biological response. That is about all I can offer. Good luck.l

uc61la,

Oo you sure replied fast :)

Well, just after writing that, found this site:

http://www.webc … c/arginine.html

They say three hours after eating or an hour before.

There are actually many more sources saying you should take L-Arginine on an empty stomach, as it competes with other amino acids. What should concern us more, is L-Arginine competing with other amino acids. Perhaps, though, 500mg is nothing to be concerned about ? Merlinnnnn ? :)

PEnister

Dear ThunderSS, Penister,

1. Is taking L-Lysine counterproductive concerning the NO effect?

No.

2. Does L-A really increase the likelihood of Herpes outbreaks?

I am not a virologist, not able to answer the question, I doubt it.

3. Is L-Lysine needed to stop the outbreaks when taking L-A?

Won’t hurt, may help.

4. Why does the Doc in the article say that you will heal faster when taking L-A, but on the other hand, L-A can cause Herpes outbreaks? What happens that causes one type of situation to heal, but the other one to increase?

Does this “doctor” have credentials from an accredited medical school? What is their credibility? Over a decade ago I was talking with the leading virologist in the world, who had her lab next to mine, when I asked her about L-LYS per positive herpes effect she laughed, I though so much for L-LYS. In the last decade there may be research on herpes, and L-LYS, I am not up on it if there is. I think you are making too much of a deal over this, if you feel L-LYS helps reduce herpes, take it. It will not adversely affect L-ARG effect.

5. What, in your opinion, is the minimum dosage to have any effect on increasing the HGH output?

To induce HGH you need pharmacological, not physiological amounts, like at least 5 gm each time, a couple times daily. Jogging will do the same thing, and it is cheaper and healthy.

Empty stomach would be more efficient per dosing with L-ARG.

Merlin

Hey Merlin,

I’m not trying to make “too much of a deal over this”. Just trying to get to some kind of truth. You see there has been this PE Mantra about L-Lysine controlling the herpes outbreaks when a person is taking L-Arginine. If the stuff doesn’t work, is not needed, has no positive effect on PE, why take it?

ThunderSS,

Here is what I do know:

Published studies indicate that viruses like herpes simplex and herpes zoster can be put into quick remission, or the breakouts prevented altogether, when T-lymphocyte suppressor cell function is inhibited. The best way of accomplishing this is to take 200 mg of cimetidine (Tagamet) three times a day and then 400 mg a bedtime. Tagamet is available in pharmacies over-the-counter. Suggested use is to initiate Tagamet as soon as symptoms of a herpes-related virus infection appear. Continue to take it for one to two weeks after all symptoms of the outbreak have abated. (Studies listed below)(Tagamet is also used to treat heartburn).As I have time, I will look for L-LYS implications)

References

1. Devine SM, Wingard JR 1994, Viral infections in severely immunocompromised cancer patients. Support Care Cancer 1994 Nov;2(6):355-68.

2. Van der Spuy S, Levy DW, Levin W 1980. Cimetidine in the treatment of herpes virus infections. S Afr Med J Jul 19;58(3):112-6.

3. Kapinska-Mrowiecka M, Toruwski G: 1996. Efficacy of cimetidine in treatment of herpes zoster in the first 5 days from the moment of disease manifestation. Pol Tyg Lek Jun;51(23-26):338-9.

4. Hayne ST, Mercer JB 1983. Herpes zoster:treatment with cemetidine. Can Med Assoc J Dec 15;129(12):1284-5.

5. Komlos L, Notmann J, Arieli J, et.al. 1994. In vitro cell-mediated immune reactions in herpes zoster patients treated with cimetidine. Asian Pac J Allelrgy Immunol Jun;12(1):51-8.

6. Miller A, Harel D, Laor A, Lahat N 1989. Cimetidine as an immunomodulator in the treatment of herpes zoster. J Neuroimmunol 1989 Mar;22(1):69-76.

7. Kumar A, 1990. Cimetidine: an immunomodulator. DICP Mar;24(3):289-95.

8. Kelly MD, King J, Cherian M, Dwerryhouse SJ, Finlay IG, Adams WJ, King DW, Lubowski D, Morris DL. 1999. Randomized Trial of Preoperative Cimetidine in Patients with Colorectal Carcinoma with Quantitative Assessment of Tumor-Associated Lymphocytes. Cancer Journal 85: 1658-63.

9. Yilmaz, E, Alpsoy E, Basaran E. 1996. Cimetidine therapy for warts: a placebo-controlled, double-blind study. J Am Acad Dermatol Jun; 34(6):1005-7.

10. Franco I 2000. Oral cemetidine for the management of genital and perigenital warts in children. J Urol Sep;164(3 Pt 2):1074-5.

General References

Bense L., Marcusson JA, Ramsten T 1987. Effect of cimetidine on herpes zoster infection. Drug Intell Clin Pharm Oct;21(10);803-5.

Brockmeyer NH et.al. Immunomodulatory properties of Cimetidine in ARC patients. Clinical Immunology and Immunopathology, no.48, pp.50-60, 1988.

Cooper, David, M.D., Journal of the American Medical Association, Dec 9, 1998. (Contributing Editor: Comments on shingles.)

Fleming DT, McQuillan GM, Johnson RE, Nahmias AJ, Aral SO, Lee FK, St. Louis ME. Herpes Simplex Virus Type 2 in the United States, 1976 to 1994.

New England Journal of Medicine. 1997; 337:16:1105-1111.

New England Journal of Medicine, Nov 23, 2000: 343, No. 21: Editorial: C. Peter N. Watson, M.D., University of Toronto.

News Release: “NIAID: NIAID Spearheads Collaborative Network for Clinical Research on Immune Tolerance,” Oct 6, 1999.

Pharmaceutical Cost Quotes: SAV-ON Pharmacy in Orange County, CA.

Smith D 1989. Cimetidine (Tagamet) as Immunomodulator, Antitumor Treatment. AIDS Treatment News 80:June 2.

UCLA MedNet.: UCLA School of Medicine Library.

VZV Research Foundation: Newsletter: Vol.V, No. 1, Spring/Summer 2000.

ThunderSS etals,

Enclosed is a published research report on HGH induction by L_ARG and L-LYS. The dosages used were less than I expected, the results were significant. Hope this is of help.

A Study of Growth Hormone Release After Oral Administration of Amino Acids

Current Medical Research & Opinion

Vol. 7, No. 7, 1981

A. Isidori M.D. A. Lo Monaco, M.D.& M. Cappa, M.D.
Medical Clinic V. University of Rome, Rome, Italy. Received: 13th March 1981

Summary
A study was carried out in 15 male volunteers to evaluate qualitatively the secretion of growth factors following stimulation by oral amino acids. the results showed that oral administration of a combination of two amino acids (1200 mg l-lysine plus 1200 mg l-arginine pyroglutanate) provoked a release of pituitary somatotrophin & insulin. This phenomenon was reproducible & the growth hormone secreted in response to this stimulation had biological activity (as demonstrated by radiorecepter assay & somatomedin induction). The effect appeared to be specific to the combination of the two amino acids; neither of the amino acids demonstrated appreciable stimulating activity when administered alone, even at the same doses.

Introduction

It has been known for some time that intravenous administration of amino acids strongly stimulates secretion of growth hormone by the hypothesis. 1,4,13,15,16,18-20. This phenomenon has, in fact, been accepted & utilized as a test of pituitary function in growth disorders. 2,8,9,12,17. However, the physiological relevance of this release of human growth hormone (HGH) has not yet been fully established.

We have investigated, therefore, the following aspects of this phenomenon: (i) the exact biological nature of the HGH secreted in response to amino acid stimulation, (ii) a possible release of other growth factors in addition to HGH, (iv) whether specific amino acids (l-lysine 7 & l-arginine), either alone or in combination, produce varying HGH responses, (v) the time course of the HGH release, & (vi) whether oral administration of the amino acids is effective.

Subjects & methods

Fifteen healthy male volunteers, aged 15 to 20 years, free of all endocrine or metabolic abnormalities & who were not receiving any kind of medical treatment, were kept under observation for 2 days. After initial blood samples had been obtained, each subject received a single oral dose of 2400 mg amino acids (1200mg l-arginine-2-pyrrolidone-5-carboxylate plus 1200 mg l-lysine hydrochloride) on an empty stomach. Blood samples were again drawn at intervals of 30.60, 90 & 120 minutes after amino acid administration. The experiment was repeated after intervals of 10 & 20 days.

Blood samples were tested for growth hormone by: (a) a radioimmunoassay (RIA) method, & (b) a radioreceptor assay (RRA). This bioassay evaluates somatotrophin on a substrate of lymphocytes in monolayer culture (blastic lymphocytes IM9 infected with Epstein-Barr virus) after extraction & purification by gel-chromatography on a Sephadex column. The biological activity is evaluated in units & extrapolated to ng/ml.

Somatomedin activity (Somatotomedin A, Asm) was also addressed. To evaluate this HGH-dependant serum factor a biological method was used which determines the incorporation of 35SO4 (the sulphatating activity of the serum) & of 3H-thymidine on piglet rib cartilage. This method, which we modified, 11 is extremely precise (for levels below 0.3) & quite sensitive. Somatomedin activity is expressed in U/ml. One unit indicates the sulphatating activity of 1ml of pooled serum from at least 3 healthy subjects, as no international standard has yet been established for Asm. Normal values using this method are 1+- 0.2 U/ml, with confidence limits of 0.8 and 1.2.Insulin levels were determined by radioimmunoassay.

In a second experiment, 8 subjects randomly selected from the 15 included in the first experiment underwent growth hormone assays after administration of single doses of various amino acids: (i) 1200 mg l-arginine-2-pyrrolidone-5-carboxylate, (ii) 1200 mg l-lysine hydrochloride, (iii) 1200 mg of both (total 2400 mg), as in the first experiment, and (iv) 2400 l-arginine-2-pyrrolidone-5-carboxylate. Blood samples were drawn at the same times as in the first experiment and assayed only for growth hormone.

continued:

Results

The results are reported in Table I & figures 1, 2, & 3 & 4 for the experiment & in Table II & figure 5 for the second experiment.

Table I. Plasma levels of growth hormone (HGH), insulin & somatomedin (Asm) after oral administration of 1200 mg. l-arginine-2-pyrrolidone-5-carboxylate & 1200 mg l-lysine hydrochloride: mean (+- S.D.) values for 15 subjects
Measurement Growth hormone (ng/ml) RRA: RIA Insulin
(µU/ml) Asm
(U/ml)
RIA RRA
Baseline
30 mins
60 mins
90 mins
120 mins
8 hours
15.4 +- 5.0
86.2 +- 8.7
82.0 +- 14.8
108.0 +- 7.4
102.7 +- 10.0
48.0 +- 5.5 15.0 +- 3.0
60.26 +- 9.0
112.97 +- 6.2

0.73
1.04 7.3 +- 3.2
21.0 +- 1.5
11.7 +- 2.0
7.9 +- 3.1
9.85 +- 3.8 0.9 +- 0.2
0.9 +- 0.2
1.0 +- 0.1
1.0 +- 0.1
3.0 +- 0.1


10 days later
(90mins)*
20 days later 97.5 +- 5.6
95.0+-10.05
18.3+-2.5
17.7+-8.4


* The test was repeated after 10 and 20 days. The figures relate to the plasma samples taken at the time of maximal peak (90 mins) in the previous experiment.

Table II. Plasma levels (ng/ml) of growth hormone after single oral doses of l-arginine-2-pyrrolidone-5-carboxylate or l-lysine hydrochloride, alone or in combination: mean (+-S.D.) values for 8 subjects
Measurement Arginine
(1200 mg) Arginine
(2400 mg) Lysine
(1200 mg) Lysine(1200 mg)
Arginine(1200 mg)
Baseline
30 mins
60mins
90 mins
120 mins
7.3+-2.3
13.5+-7.5
10.0+-4.5
9.2+-4.7
9.4+-5.4 16.4+-4.1
3.4+-2.5
5.8+-4.0
5.9+-3.8
6.2+-4.1 4.8+-1.9
6.3+-3.8
7.8+-5.1
13.5+-5.2
15.8+-4.2 12.4+-2.5
29.0+-7.5
63.0+-7.8
98.5+-15.0
57.1+-10.0

From the results it would appear the the joint administration of the two amino acids (2400 mg total) brought about a marked biological response which was reproducible and did not reduce with time. As will be seen from I and 5, there was induction of a significant peak of immunoreactive HGH which reached a maximum at 90 minutes after administration and this was confirmed when the experiment was repeated.

Figure 1. percentage variations in plasma HGH (radioimmunoassay) with respect to baseline values after oral administration of 1200 mg l-arginine-2pyrrolidone-5-carboxylate plus 1200 mg l-lysine hydrochloride: mean (+-S.D.) values for 15 subjects.

Figure 3. Plasma levels of growth hormone (HGH) and somatomedin A (Asm) after oral administration of the arginine plus lysine combination, as in figure 1.: mean (+-S.D.) values for 15 subjects.

A significant secretion of insulin, another very important growth factor, was also induced (Figure 4).

Figure 4. Plasma levels (RIA) after oral administration of the arginine plus lysine combination, as in Figure 1.: mean (+-S.D.) values for 15 subjects.

The association of the two amino acids seemed to provoke a much greater HGH response than either of them demonstrated alone. Individually, their influence on HGH was practically non-existent (Figure 5), even when administered in doses equal to the total amino acid dosage of the combination.

Figure 5. Plasma levels of HGH (RIA) after oral administration of arginine and lysine alone in combination: mean (+-S.D.) values for 8 subjects.
Discussion

Our findings are clinically important in terms of the relevance of amino acids to growth disorders, particularly in relation to diagnostic test in growth disorders. The confirmation of biological activity of the HGH secreted in response to oral amino acid stimulation is very important. It is known that stimulation of the hypothesis by physiological processes 6,7,10 or pharmacological agents can result in the release of substances into the circulation, the majority of which possess immunoreactive properties enabling their identification by normal RIA systems, but the peripheral biological activity is often reduced or absent. 21 We have shown similar immuno-responses to the amino acid combination but, far more important, we could demonstrate that the association of the two amino acids does result in the release of biological-active hormone able to affect peripheral cellar receptors and thus growth in general.
Insulin is, of course, an equally important factor in cell growth. Even if there are some uncertainties regarding the bioactivity of the substance assayed, there is no doubt the the amino acids stimulated this as well as HGH: hence, both of the physiologically important growth factors are affected. It should also be noted that the hypoglycemia which follows the insulin peak is a further stimulus to HGH secretion.

Probably the most significant aspect of our findings is that these HGH responses have demonstrated following oral administration of the amino acid complex. Previously, the only amino acid to have been tested orally is trytophan, 3,5,14 so that demonstration of oral activity of this arginine/lysine combination is clearly of considerable importance in clinical and diagnostic practice, where if offers a more practical and physiological approach.

Merlin

Hey Merlin,

You are the best! Thanks for taking the time to research and post this information! I have not read it all, but it looks extremely interesting and more thorough than a regular webbie like me could come up with using Google.

Merry Christmas to you and yours!