Considering getting the frenulum removed and possibly becoming cut

Your long winded posts seemingly rest on very few facts. Circumcision is immoral, a foreskin is required for sexual function, and the benefits are minimal. I think that the interplay between these three things is where our conflict arises. You are right, morality is completely in the context of society. I have addressed morality however. In the US, circumcision is completely accepted. This is because 1) large numbers of circumcised men and their partners have great sex and enjoy the feel and look of a circumcised penis. Two, compared to uncircumcised men, we have less medical complications. I think that complications from infections and swelling are less trivial than you allude to, and even very competent and clean men are not immune to complications. There is no way to predict these complications. Therefore, if you like your circumcision, it’s supported by professionals in your community and you are improving your child’s health, it is wholly moral. And if it’s immoral to you, frankly I don’t care.

The function argument comes down to this: the function of a penis is to deliver sperm. The foreskin doesn’t do that. If it contributes enhanced sensation we will never know, as you said we cannot compare. But the point of my referencing a 40,000 person review is that feelings are subjective and therefore perception is reality. Sex feels incredible to me and you, and despite your arrogance you can’t tell me your sex is better than mine because we can’t perceive each others feelings. Therefore, if both penises function and the sexual pleasure is the same, I see no sexual function for the foreskin, only an anatomical one.

The benefits of circumcision lie in the importance you place on this piece of skin. To me it looks like a small source of potential problems that adds an extra layer of risk without adding benefits. To you it looks like the source of your pleasure. I can see why you protect it, but I’m telling you that circumcised dicks work great. And I don’t have to worry about phimosis. That’s a win in my book. I’ve seen about a dozen circumcisions, they are so trivial they line up all the babies in the labor and delivery every couple days, give them a pacifier and go snip down the line. 1 or 2 babies cry, the rest don’t flinch. It is about like cutting the umbilical cord.

I only joined this section to rebuke the zealots and defend a medically valid choice. I think that the evidence is out there now and as much as I enjoy reading that circumcision is related to Nazi Germany, I really have wasted too much time. Kudos to you BD, as your posts were interesting philosophical treatises. It’s too bad you had to start off with such gross metaphors, otherwise I’d really respect the rest of your rationale. I suggest taking a look at wibble, who strongly disagrees in a much more elegant manner.

To the point, Mizguy12, expressing your thoughts well without denigration or offense. Very good. Also, we must think in terms of the issue the foundation of a society which is its laws. Where one lives, if circumcision is legal, that person has a valid right to it. That’s all I say. Moral substance of my beliefs, I generally keep to myself as a matter of course.

Morals exist only within context. If you don’t think something is wrong when you do it, it’s not wrong to you. If the systems of power in which you live in don’t think it’s wrong, then it’s not wrong to your community. However, if you cut my foreskin off without my consent, it’s very wrong to me (which is the natural reaction of any child even though they are too young to say it or even think it or understand what’s going on).

The reason it’s a natural reaction is because circumcision does cause pain. The reason I know this is because I understand how pain works. Pain is the perception of tissue damage (real or perceived). Cutting off half of the penis’ skin is by definition tissue damage. Since our skin has plenty of nerves, the tissue damage is perceived, and pain is experienced. It’s common sense. Cut off skin, experience pain. It’s literally happened to you hundreds or thousands of times in your own life. Either your own skin has been cut, or you’ve witnessed another person with cut skin in pain. A small enough amount of skin damage can have a very low pain response. But we’re not talking about a small amount here. We’re talking about half the penis skin. A 1” x 2” section for an infant or 3” x 5” for an adult. Go ahead and try it on yourself and report back.

The umbilical cord does not have nerves for the mother or the baby which is why cutting it does not cause pain. No nerves means no perception of the damage means no pain. On the other hand, all of the skin on our body has nerves. Some places have many more nerves than others, and the foreskin is one of those places. So the perception of the tissue damage during circumcision is guaranteed.

Pleasure happens in the brain, not the foreskin or anywhere in the penis. Our pleasure responses are hard wired for sex to be the most pleasurable thing we experience in life, whether or not we have foreskin. That’s why only men who have experienced it both ways can comment on the relative difference, and from the handful of accounts I’ve read, all have been pro-foreskin. At least you finally admitted an anatomical benefit to the foreskin. Progress made. The sexual function is in the sealing, lubricating, and gliding action. Look it up, you’re very close to understanding.

This should all be common sense, but that common sense has been suppressed by certain cultures and religions. People have been trained to think it’s OK to ritualistically cut off part of their child’s penis. And nobody else in their group will say otherwise, and the infants are unable to say otherwise. In the new age of free information, there’s going to be a new trend though. Children who a few generations ago would have lived their entire lives within their religious bubble, will now be exposed to all the information, through internet sources and discussions like this. And they will wonder why their parents cut off half their penis skin for little apparent reason. Maybe then the morals will matter.

q92, here are two guys I found through google talking about their experience with adult circumcision.

This first guy has a very detailed blogpost, his motivation for getting circumcised was that he thought it would enrich his sex-life.

htxps://davidlouis77.wordpress.com/

The other guy went through the surgery because of phimosis

htxp://www.patient.co.uk/forums/discuss/almost-total-loss-of-glans-sensitivity-following-circumcision-361051

Understand that lowered sensitivity is inevitable, how much however can vary alot.

Proceed only if you have serious hygiene issues, caused by having lots of skin. Other than that I find no good reason

Thank you all guys for your discussions. Currently I am taking a break from PE and got no time and less interest but I try to follow once in a while.

Thanks Sumbigd. However, I see both sites are contradictory. The one with the long blog says he lost sensitivity comparing it as having many condoms in your dick. The other said his sensitivity was extreme and reached orgasm too quick. So confusing.

My initial question was more about the frenulum removal, but I see it is a very sensitive part. The wound I had in the frenulum got worse because I kept on doing PE. It eventually healed even doing PE. Now everything is OK.

I can speak from experience being the fact I got circumcised at the age of 25. The pros and cons from my perspective. Not being circumcised penetration was easier and no lube is really required and sensitivity I would have to admit was probably better. Now being the fact that I am circumcised, hygiene is a lot better and in my personal opinion it just looks better. To be brutally honest do I regret it? At first yes but now no I hope this helps. :-)

Hi Close. Great post! Is it possible that you can be more specific and descriptive when you say hygiene is “better”? I wonder, what exactly do you mean?

Okay as to be more specific and descriptive about what I meant as in hygene is better. The rim of the penis gland head under the forskin is susceptible to moisture and sweating. I had this issue and I developed PPP which stands for penis pearly papules. This doctor made me believe they would go away if I was to have a circumcision but he lied. At the time I was in the military and military doctors are all about getting experience and operations up under the belt. So yes I live with penile pearly papules to this day and to be honest it was a little embarrassing while I was growing up but I came to accept it. Plus the women I have been with I have been upfront with them about what they are and there is a female friend I smash on a regular. One day I plan to get them removed with a laser treatment that only takes 2 weeks of healing time but right now it’s only cosmetic, so I am not really concerned about it at this time. Plus to reiterate about hygiene being better it is extremely hard to control the moisture up under the foreskin and you have to constantly keep it clean and dry under there. That’s where being circumcised outshines having a foreskin and it is more appealing to women. :-)

The second guy probably meant that right after the circumcision, he came to fast - that would be because his glans haven’t had time to desensitize yet. My guess is that since he walked around with it exposed he had a constant sexual stimuli, so when he got into sexual activity he was “already on the way” to cumming.

In his second paragraph you see him write “but now”, meaning that after some time (a couple of months?) his skin have toughened up and his nerve endings are no longer responding as they used to do.

Regarding your frenulum and foreskin by themselves , I can’t tell how much sensation you would loose. Different sources say there are 10 000, 20 000 or even 70 000 sexual nerve endings in the foreskin that are removed during circumcision. The only source for the nerve endings in the glans alone (did a quick search on google front page) said 7000.

So when an intact men gets an erection, the highly sensitive inner foreskin is exposed. Essentially, the foreskin reverses in on itself.
That pleasure you would miss out on if you have it removed, on top of having keratinization occur to your glans.

hxtp://thecircumcisiondecision.com/ is a website that is purely fact based (at least they say so), however you will soon see that pretty much all evidence point towards not performing circumcision - unless it is a part of your faith.

Thanks Close! What a great explanation! I just learned quite a bit from it!

Your welcome king any time man!

I’m uncut and have quite a loose foreskin. However when erect the foreskin pulls back right over the glans. It would be interesting to hear the various opinions regarding whether to be cut or uncut if one had a choice. Many men are circumcised at birth and don’t have much choice. I myself I’m happy to have a foreskin. Only issue I have is the oily sebum. I am very hygienic and shower and wash my cock twice a day but always have sebum to wash away. That is a bit of an issue for me personally. Also when using some for of oil as a lubricant for example baby oil it is very difficult to get rid of it. But I’m happy I’m uncut. Think an uncut penis just looks better. I’ve always wondered if cut guys experience any pain because they have nothing that moves around? If any guys would like to share their thoughts and opinions that would be great.

Hi Belloza,

I’m cut and definitely would not make that decision if it were left up to me. I’ve been restoring for quite a while now and can say having some skin that moves is much better.

My son gets to choose for himself and there’s better than a 99% chance he will choose to stay intact.