How to Maximize the process of Gaining Length

Hello everyone! So, there is this question I want to ask- what do you consider to be the best length gaining method? I have read a bit here and there and this is what I have so far:

- In order to get the best length gains you must first focus on length only and do girth work after achieving your final length goal. The reason for this is, because by the laws of physics- the thinner an object is- the less force it would need to be stretched. For example- if a guy with girth of 4.5 inches follows a length only PE plan and another guy with girth of 5 inches follows the exact same routine- the one with less girth would see better results (if they are anatomically the same- have the same number of tunica layers, skin exit point, LOT etc.). That is because the process of mitosis would have to occur over a small area (which would therefore make it faster). Plus, the stretching force would have to be much less (as the number of cells that need to be stretched would be significantly less due to the even distribution of the force over the tunica/ligaments).

- To be on a length only routine. This one might be considered “a bit too much”, but the main goal of length work is exhaustion/fatigue. Once fatigue is present- the ligaments and tunica can be stretched much more easily as the body no longer has the “strength” to resist the stretch and therefore- tissue deformation is most easily achieved during that period. There is a lot more on fatigue to be explained, but for those who are not familiar with this “law of length gaining”- just read through Bib’s “Managing Fatigue” thread, it has great information in there. So, if reaching fatigue and “riding its wave” is the most important “law” of gaining length- wouldn’t a length only routine maximize the gaining potential- as the process of mitosis (cell division) would be constant and therefore- constantly extending the penis while it is at the phase where the best and fastest gains can be made? Much like the SRT theory- constantly keeping the penis extended, using the fatigue factor to gain at the fullest potential.

- Exhaustion/relaxation of the PC/BC muscles. Just like in the exercise- DLD Blasters- where what is most important is not the stretch itself, it is the PC/BC muscle exhaustion part. As the body instinctively performs a “defensive” kegel to resist the stretch (because our bodies are survival machines and they can not make difference between a voluntary stretch or involuntary attack. So, to prevent the penis from getting ripped off from a predator attack- a kegel movement is being performed). This is instinct and it can not be avoided if the person is not conscious of the kegel movement and if the person does not have full control over his Pelvic Floor muscles. Techniques such as the DLD Blaster exhaustion and the Paradoxical Pullout are proven to keep the involuntary kegels away from the process of PE.

Here is an interesting read:

Length mechanics

- High Intensity vs Low Intensity
- Short Duration vs Long Duration
- Useful Additional Information

High intensity is believed to be THE key to gaining meters of length by some, but high intensity is not always THE only key to gaining. Ok, so if High intensity stretching is not THE Holy grail of PE gaining then what else can be its equal? Isn’t it important to get a strong stretch to deform the shaft/ligs and therefore make it longer- the stronger the deformation is- the better the gains will be, right? Well I don’t think it really works like that always. What most people are not aware of is that when they stretch HARD- their survival mechanisms activate and therefore the Pelvic Floor muscles flex (perform a kegel) to resist the stretch and protect the penis (as your body thinks it is about to get ripped off, it is adapted to the evolutionary threats it was exposed to). What happens then is the STRONG stretch does not have the effect of proper tissue deformation and mitosis induction as we wanted in the beginning of the session.

Low intensity is strongly avoided by many PE-ers. Most people think it is a waste of time and something that is not enough to make your penis grow, because the deformation is not as strong and therefore- less gains will be seen if one does his length session following that principle than the other one that pulls his penis as strong as he can. BUT- low intensity stretches do not triger the survival mechanisms and the penis gets a weak, but proper stretch.

High intensity is really dangerous- especially for the ones that are not conditioned enough to go for it! Many newbies would pull their penises with all they’ve got and suddenly find themselves in a stuation where injury has occured and they have to stay away from PE-ing and maybe even sex.

Low intensity is the safe way- newbies going for low intensity while stretching are much less likely to cause an injury and take time off PE and sex.

Additional information on intensity level is that the penis (just like every other part of the human body) adapts to the stress it is exposed to. If newbies (or DEconditioned PE-ers) decide to go for the big intensities instead of getting conditioned enough to do so- their penises will gain, yes, but they will also adapt to the stress levels and once they do- they would have to improve their length session (in terms of intensity and/or time spent doing the exercises) to break the plateau they have hit. If PE-er 1 starts his sessions with basic stretches and works his way slowly and steadily up- after a 1 year period- this person would have gained X number of gains and come to updating his length sessions to (just a simple example) mid-to-high intensity of stretching, mid-to-high exercise intensity (as exercises differ in intensity and types of targeting- expressives, ligament stretches, tunica stretches and they all vary in exercise intensity- some are more intense than others etc.) and around 1-2 hours of manual PE a day. If PE-er 2 starts his sessions with more intense exercises such as “The Mandigo Stretch” or any other of that caliber and uses high intensity and works his way up- in a period of 1 year- that PE-er would have gained Y number of gains and would have to do very high intensity of stretching, very high exercise intensity (performing the most intense length stretches he can find) and 3-4 hours of manual PE a day to continue breaking the plateau and therefore- see new gains. This is why it is advised to first take your “Newbie” gains with low intensity and then steadily work your way up. The above mentioned was just a small and simple example including no devices, but you got the main idea.

High duration of length exercising is the type of exercising that can let us reach fatigue and “ride the wave” afterwards for a continuous period of time and therefore- making the best length gains possible. Once the ligaments or tunica reach fatigue- they will not resist (but that does not mean that the Pelvic Floor would not flex to “protect” your penis) the stretch and then you can feel how the stretch really stretches you penis. Think of it that way- imagine the ligaments or the tunica as a straight line. Now stretch that straight line and you see it getting deformed (elongated). On a micro level mitosis (the process of cell division of a mother cell to two daughter cells) occurs. After time- the cells of that straight line go through a process of division multiple times and there you go- it is now longer. The reason why it is important to heal elongated is because you are under a process of constant mitosis. High duration wins big time! How will you know you have reached a level of tissue fatigue? Well- basically other than soreness- fatigue can be described as the inability to continue a PE length session using the same intensity level (you feel like you need to reduce the weight a bit, a light feeling of discomfort, but NOT pain!). This is also why length sessions are better off being done daily, with no rest days. Once exhaustion has been reached- one must use this massive advantage to gain as much as possible. If any rest taken- exhaustion would fade away, the penis ligaments/tunica would be completely healed and the state you fought to get to is now gone and further than before (as you have given the penis a chance to adapt to the stress you have put on it before and now the stress level required is therefore higher- like a muscle (though the penis is NOT a muscle)- train it and it becomes bigger, but it is needed to apply the principles of progression to exceed the previous workout and give it more stress than it is adapted to in order for it to grow. This is also why I believe there “Newbie” gains- since people unfamiliar with PE have no adaptation to any kind of penile stretching/expanding stress and they require a little to gain).

Short duration of length exercising on the other hand- does not provide all the VITAL to gaining effects High duration does. This is why combinations such as Short duration+High intensity or Short duration+Low Intensity do not work by themselves. BUT when combined with the High Duration method AFTERWARDS- they work wonders! So if we have a Short Duration+High Intensity stress (such as hanging) followed by a High Duration-low intensity/high intensity-passive (PE length devices such as Extenders or All Day+All Night Stretchers)/active type of PE is extremely effective. And the other thing- Low Duration+Low Intensity stress (such a a light manual stretch) followed by a High Duration-low intensity/high intensity-passive/active type of PE is effective as well! And of course there is the High Duration-High Intensity stress followed by a High Duration-low intensity/high intensity-passive/active type of PE (which might be by far the most effective type of length training) and High Duration-High Intensity stress followed by a Low Duration-low intensity/high intensity-passive/active type of PE (which can be really good as well, but here it really depends how long the High Duration is- as active PE (which differs from the active type of healing principles such as Extending/ADS/Cockring and can be something as manual stretching or using special length devices such as a hanger) can be much better for gains than the active healing principles, but most people do not have the time to do 6+hours of active PE a day, so- as recommended as High/Low Intensity-High Duration work is- it is a bit impractical for many PE-ers. I believe the above written gave you a fairly good sample on how a length session can be structured and what are the advantages/disadvantages of any routine’s structure over the other type. We all follow regimes based on the time we have to PE a day and we form a micro/meso-cycle of routine. The above written was to get some people a bit more familiar on the principles length works on and help them structure themselves a length micro/meso cycle routine based on the time they can PE in.

This is why PE devices such as Extenders/All Day+All Night Stretchers work so good- because they let us heal actively and make our penises go though a constant (or a much longer) process of mitosis. It is not a MUST to have these devices to gain, but it definitely speeds up the results and makes it MUCH easier for all of us to PE.

I am the original author of what I’ve pasted above.

So, what do you all think? I would love to see a really good discussion on what you think would help men maximize their length gaining process. Please, correct me if you think I am wrong and make sure to tell me if you think there’s something I have not mentioned. :)

Definitely liked how you didn’t really differentiate between ligament, tunica/buck’s fascia, and trabeculae stretching as mitosis is the constant necessary variable in that equation.

I personally think the perineum muscles hold great responsibility to the erection process: blood flood-in, blood let out, and the pull-back effect mentioned in here…in relation to penis size gains.

It was stated by another in another thread that the reverse kegel relaxes these muscles thus reducing the pull back and allows for a greater stretch on one’s unit and it’s structures. But I personally am now using kegels and reverse kegels in rotation with my stretching (hanging) sessions…after gaining fatigue by other methods.

Whatever your girth is, the tunica is very thin, so can’t make any significative difference. We did a poll time ago to see if there was a difference in lenght gain rate between people with different girth, and there wasn’t any.

LOT ‘theory’ is based on wrong anatomical assumptions. Reverse Kegel’s properly said (basically, making an effort to piss) serve to nothing and I wouldn’t advice them to anybody;

There isn’t any ‘exaustion’ to reach, tons of people had great gains without reaching ‘fatigue’; the ‘fatigue’ idea is pretty much a marketing keyword.

Well it is good to hear that the LOT theory has been proven to be untrue- I know of many people who got really discouraged, because they were told they had low LOT. I too have heard of a lot of poeple who have gained significant amounts of length even though they were told they had low LOT. Can you link the thread where it is explained why/where/how the LOT theory is proven wrong? I’d like to read it. :)

You might be right that the tunica layers are of major importance, but it is just laws of physics that a thicker object is stretched with more effort and more slowly than a thinner one. Everyone is highly individual and maybe the results you got came from people with very good length potential. I might be wrong (I assume that), but it is physics that prove that this statement is right.

Well, some believe in the science of RKs while other don’t. But a kegel resists the stretch. If you stretch with a certain amount of force and then kegel- you will notice that there is this tugback (like in the loss of TUGBACK). This somewhat resists the stretch as the penis does not get stretched to its full potential. A RK is the exact opposite of a kegel and is therefore (as you mentioned above) the movement performed to unflex the PC muscles (when we empty our bladder as you mentioned). The way I see it- only RKs and pre-exhaustion (or absolute relaxation over that area) are the best ways to prevent the “resisting reaction” of the body.

About the exhaustion- well it is here that is explained what fatigue is and why it is so important. To me it makes perfect sense that the penis is much easier to stretch (grow) and it is exhausted and can no longer resist the full potential of the induced stress. I might be wrong here, but I can tell you of many people who have gained through reaching fatigue and that only- the same people who could not get the gains until they reached that phase.

Please take my answer as absolutely friendly- I mean absolutely no offense, I came here to learn, so if you think I am wrong- prove me wrong, I want to know where I am mistaking- link me threads that prove what I say wrong and explain it scientifically and practically. :)

I don’t know about fatigue being a marketing word. For me it is feeling what your body is telling you and adjusting. You have so many people that come in here asking for an exact routine.

“Oh, you gained big” “What is your routine?”

The reality is they probably need to start a baseline routine like the newbie routine and then adjust.

There are some who preach that you can make a change to your routine when you show no growth over 1, 2, 3 month period. To me that is a reactive way to do PE.

I personally like going by feel. Perhaps that takes more experience but I think for long term results people need to start going down that path instead of some rigid routine and then course correcting after months have gone by with no results.

In regards to the particular thread about managing fatigue, I do follow that strategy when I am getting my sets in. It helps with those hangers that are trying to hang to pain. Instead it teaches them it isn’t necessary and they can dial it back. Plus it helps the people that are still hanging at low weights and are frustrated with lack of gains. It gives them something to shoot for. Kind of pushing close to the edge without falling over.

Don’t get me wrong, I have also gained for periods of time with no fatigue. It is usually a pleasant surprise. However, my best gaining periods is when I am chasing fatigue and in a constant state of soreness. Regretfully, with my inconsistent hanging that isn’t often enough.

Thank you for the kick in bhcentral! Well, to me- Bib is a icon, he is by far the man who understands length gaining mechanisms the best. I am not one of the guys who know a lot about PE, but He has gained a lot himself and he has helped MANY other people gain a lot as well following his teachings. I like your post, thank you for your comment. Hopefully, other people will join in as well. :)

Please understand I think the managing fatigue really applies to hanging in particular. I am not sure but the way people gain with extending might be completely different.

I know there are also people that do manual stretches and they get very frustrated because they don’t feel fatigue. Yet they still manage to gain.

I know you can gain hanging also without fatigue, but I truly believe when the gains start slowing down, being in that state of fatigue will at least give you the best shot for continued gains.

Also I believe people need to learn to differenciate between skin stress and more of a deep fatigue. If you push the skin to far that will cause problems but skin stretch alone won’t do much to grow your penis.

Yes, but what is the difference between hanging and manual stretching? The only difference I see is the grip strength/endurance factor of the hand. :)

I can’t speak for Bib’s knowledge. I know there are people here including Marinara who consider him a liar.

But I will say that from reading thousands of posts on his forum, he seems to understand the journey that myself and others are going on.
He describes the details of the path so well that I am positive that he has walked that path.

His answers are very consistent and in regards to hanging they are dead on for what I am going through.

Now of course without pictures no one can really know what he has truly gained.

In regards to his length, I do believe his claims are in the realm of possibility, considering the amount of hours that he says he put in. He basically was hanging in one week what I hang in a month. Plus I have wasted so much time building back up to effective levels because of all the time I take off. I wouldn’t be surprised if half of the sets that I have done did nothing for length. If he never had to build back up to effective hanging weight then that is even more time under an effective amount of tension.

And thats the point often missed. As newbie you can gain with various intensitys.
For example extender gains come easly for many if you start out.

But after that you have to find that small path of gaining which is somewhere around the feeling of fatigue.
The problem with that is that it is very subjective and many have no clue about listening about their own body and thus miss that small line either by doing not enough or too much.
The inability to tune into ones own body and interpret it is where most of the confusement stems from.
I think TP did much about that with threads like the Physical Indicators from Sparky.
Most of the big gainers tuned into their bodys and didnt just follow numbers.

Just my opinion based on my own experience with manual stretches and Mem’s routine in particular. The endurance factor is huge. Not just endurance but the ability to accurately maintain the same amount of tension. I could say that my hand is not getting tired but for all I know the tension I am supplying has fallen by 50%. I don’t notice it because my hand is slowly getting tired.

I will hang probably3-5 sets today. Except for the initial stage where I am adding weight, I will be applying the same amount of tension for 60 to 100 minutes today. Most people doing manual stretches are not going to be applying that same consistent amount of tension for that long. That might be part of the reason they don’t feel fatigue.

Perhaps there is even a subconscious thing going on that people start backing off the tension when they would normally approach fatigue. Of course that is pure speculation.

There is another thing I’ve noticed with reverse kegels, Yes they relax the muscles if the perineum but they tense the lower abdomen wall…Which affects the suspensory ligament and fundiform ligament by also tensing. This is why many advocate against them. Either way, I see kegels and reverse kegels as working the biceps and triceps in a power set when lifting weights. It’s a balance of give and take; pros and cons. (Either the ligaments are relaxed or the perineum muscles are…there really isn’t a way to have both simultaneously).

Another issue that may contribute to cellular growth (mitosis) is the neglected oversight of mental direction. Meaning, if we have it implanted in our minds that what we do will generate growth…It creates it. I know many aren’t fond of the spiritual sciences but it does play a major role.

As an example, how is it that merely rubbing, slapping, beating one’s own body (with the mind to increase one’s bodily toughness & durability) create a body that can take more punishment with less injury (if any)?

And then there is the issue of the science of how heel spurs occur. It seems long low intensity stress (yet more intense than normal) on the ligaments and tendons of the foot influences growth of the bone. I understand that the structures of bone and the internal structures of the penis different…The pattern of method seems to stand all the same. Just as many others have stated. We each need to find out own “sweet spot” between too little stress & too much stress and too little time under that stress & too much time under that stress.

Exactly.

Now Bib used to say when you start watching the clock that can be an indicator of fatigue. This has been exactly the case for me. We aren’t talking about being bored here.

These are the exact thoughts in my head when I am starting to look at the clock.

“How much longer do I need to keep on doing this.” “Oh boy, I don’t know if I can keep doing it for that much longer.”

When I am thinking that I am not in pain. It is something else. At that point I usually lower the weight unless I have just a minute or two to go. Then I gut it out. But again this is never a painful thing.

Just to clarify about the “Marketing” thing.

I don’t know about other hanger sites/products and the word “fatigue”.

But on the Bib pages dedicated to the product it is the biggest non marketing website I have ever seen.

There are zero claims on what you can gain. Nothing about Bib teaching you special methods or techniques to maximize gains. Heck, the word fatigue isn’t even mentioned on the sales part of the website except in this sentence buried on a huge page of wording. “The relative soreness or fatigue in an area is an indication of what has transpired”

To me that is not marketing the term fatigue. I think someone in marketing would have a fit if they ever saw the Bib hanger website. There is no hype at all. No claims. No sales pitch.

I know that there is no proof of Bib’s gains, but what makes me admire him so much is the fact that his teachings have helped so many men gain so much. Usually, my professor always says “No matter how much you read and study, no matter how much you know- if reality shows you that something is indeed possible (regarding Bib’s method on fatigue)- you can not really argue with it”.

Yes, I have to agree that it is all about being aware of what your body “tells” you. Fatigue is a reaction of the body, not to a certain weight (as we all reach fatigue differently (different weight, different time spent hanging/stretching/extending)) and is something highly individual. So, being aware of your body’s reaction is being aware of the fatigue I think.

The Reverse Kegels causing flex movements in the abdominal area- I have to agree here. It looks like doing DLD Blasters or Paradoxical pullouts is where the trick is. :)

And to answer the last post- I think the Fatigue concept is NOT a marketing thing. It is under the “Basics” forum and is therefore “The basics of Penis Enlargement”. I see no way he wins from that- he is just stating a “law” (basically a reaction of the human body in answer to a certain induces stress) of PE gaining methods, which can be used in manual stretching, extending, hanging etc. It is not something he is making money from I believe. I absolutely agree with bhcentral- I have only seen the word “fatigue” being mentioned on his site only.

And about what DomnariRailings said- ” We each need to find out own “sweet spot” between too little stress & too much stress and too little time under that stress & too much time under that stress”- but when we are talking about length work specifically- is there such thing as too much? Clearly, girth is different (as it requires high level of Erection Quality which is very demanding on the Pelvic area and the penis shaft (the Corpora Cavernosa and the blood vessels)) as it needs rest. But when we are talking about length- don’t we want to keep the stretch for as long as possible? Active mitosis and riding the wave of fatigue constantly- wouldn’t that produce the best gains? :)