Permanence of gains with bathmate or ADS after quitting PE completely?

Hey guys!
If you look at my post history, I had PE in my mind years ago but was too scared.
Now, I reevaluated everything and consider the phallosan forte as safe enough for me to start.
All-day stretchers like the PF and other devices work similarly to manual stretching as far as I’m concerned.
Meaning, compared to pumping with the bathmate you can gain permanent gains even after you stop for years.

My scenario:
1) gain 1,25-1,5 inches in length with the Phallosan forte in 2 years.
Then, cement the gains in an additional third year.
After that, stop completely and never do any PE again.
How many gains will be left after 6 years?

2) gain 1,2 inches in length with the Bathmate (maybe this is too much and only 1 inch is realistic. But let us assume the 1,2 inches just for the thought experiment).
Then, also cement the gains by using the bathmate only 2-3 times a week for 1 additional year.
After that, also stop and never do any kind of PE again.
What will be there after 6 years?

My current hypothesis:
For scenario 1, I expect 1-1,2 inches to stay or roughly 80% if you cement the gains in the third year of usage.
For the bathmate however, my current knowledge suggests the gains will be gone completely.
So, 0 gains.

Would LOVE to hear your thoughts.

I gained length by using a conventional cylinder with a gauge. I will never be the same size again. I’ve always recommended growing past your ideal size if possible. I pump for fun now. It’s been many years since I’ve pumped for growth and I still have all of my gains.

Extremely interesting. So you suggest that even pump gains will stay permanent IF you train for long enough and overshoot a bit?
Because from my extremely limited understanding of the medical aspects, I fully understand that jelqing/manual stretching and even the phallosan or other ADS should be permanent.
With the pumping however, I was sceptical.
It would be amazing if it was permanent to a degree.

That’s the misconception. Most don’t stick with pumping long enough to see the permanent gains. In my opinion, it’s the safest and most effective way to gain size.

As far as I have been able to research, it’s the difference between elastic and plastic deformity. Elastic deformity is part of what allows erections in the first place, and why we shrink back down when flaccid. Plastic deformity is a permanent change in size or shape. Pushing past our elastic limit, whether in our ligaments, tunica, or both, is part of what enables the plastic deformity that we’re after. There trick is pushing beyond that limit without doing permanent damage of course, and then to reach that new limit on a regular enough basis to allow the body to heal fully with that new limit being the baseline going forward.

Exactly which method is used to breach your elastic limit should be ultimately irrelevant to the permanency of your gains, so long as it’s achieved reliably and consistently enough.

The impression I’ve gotten from the studies I’ve read on traction devices and pumps is that most doctors don’t know how to establish a consistent enough baseline for pumping. With a traction device, it doesn’t matter exactly how long you are, you can adjust the device to apply the same precise grams in tension no matter the subject.

With a pump, I think the same amount of pressure will result in different degrees of expansion with even small differences in penis size from one subject to the next. Thus, a pressure level that is great enough to push past the elastic limit of one subject may not be enough to cross that threshold for the next, rendering the exercise ineffective, and screwing the study up all around.

I could certainly be wrong about pumping, as my understanding is strictly academic, but this is what I’ve seen in published papers. Not that it can’t work, but that there is more personalized trial and error involved with pumping than clinical trials can accommodate.

@Titleist: That sounds too good to be true. Regarding effectiveness I can easily see that. But in terms of risk: I have this fear in my mind that I read somewhere you should not pump
With a full errection. If you listen to your body and be cautious, is there really no risk?
I try to be as effective and minimalistic as possible with my PE, thus my plan was: 1) use the PF only and gain up to 1.25 inches in length 2) then: buy a bathmate and pump it up an additional 0.75 inches in length and 1 inch in girth (I don’t necessarily want more girth than 1 inch).

@gurk: First of, your avatar is funny and original hahah. Then, your findings are very interesting. The hypothesis that pumping is way more individual and requires more knowledge of the participant makes intuitive sense
And explains a lot. I was just wondering about the reason for the growth.
With stretching, I think microtears are created and healed and thus extend the penis size, similar to a muscle.
With pumping, if I understand you correctly we stretch the tunica and allow the penis to be filled with more blood. This stretching will eventually be cemented. This makes pumping even more attractive for me currently.

First off, there is never “no risk “. If you’re yanking, twisting, squeezing, pulling, or vacuuming your penis hard enough to push it past its normal size limits, i.e. working it hard enough to produce growth over time, then there is the risk of injury. The only way to avoid all risk is to keep your work so gentle that it really only qualifies as masturbation. Heck, you can even hurt yourself doing that too often.

Being slow, careful, and smart can minimize the danger of injury as much as is possible if you choose to continue down this path. No amount of care can prevent the possibility of injury entirely, but if you don’t get too aggressive then you should be able to heal up and bounce back from any injuries you do suffer. The true horror stories nearly always come from people who were way too gung-ho, and threw caution to the wind.

I’ve been doing this for over a year now, and I’m only now branching out into devices. If I had more time to dedicate to manual work, I would still probably keep it to that alone. That’s what I feel most comfortable with. After seeing some modest but real gains, it’s given me the drive to branch out in ways that may allow me to increase my PE workload, without significantly more time investment. Time is my most precious commodity these days.

Let me reiterate that I am not a doctor or an expert, but here goes as best I understand. For the mechanics of it, a significant part of your early gains will likely be the stretching of the ligaments that hold your penis in place. This allows more to extend from your pelvis. I believe the mechanical difference between stretching and pumping is primarily that stretching pulls on the ligaments and tunica from the outside producing micro tears, while pumping pushes outward from the inside through over engorgement, also producing micro tears.

It’s the same difference between pushing a wheelbarrow or pulling a wheelbarrow. Some situations, one is going to be better than the other but most of the time either one will get you there.

If you pump with a sensible vacuum level, staying at or below 5hg, constant heat I’ve never had any serious damage. I had to learn the hard way that too much time or vacuum typically leads to water blisters on the glans. Once I found my sweet spot, I slowly increased the amount of time. This lends to Gurks supposition that I could repeatedly get to a safe level of plastic deformity.

It’s similar to those that have gauged earlobes. That skin will never be the same.

Thanks guys!

You helped me a lot.

I’m way on my way, the first week is passing and I will create a thread after my first cm of gains :-) .

It is crazy how many different ways and approaches are used in PE and it takes knowledge and care to select the right approach for every individual.