A Question for Hangers and Manual Stretchers

I only recently came across Hobby’s fantastic post about research on low-intensity, long-duration stretching verses high-intensity, short-duration stretching (Connective tissue- FIRST "THREAD OF THE YEAR"). I posted some questions in relation to this research, but no one commented on them, probably because mine was post number 54 on that thread. Anyhow, I’d really like some feedback from others on this issue, ideally from both hangers and manual stretchers.

The gist of the research Hobby discusses is that to lengthen tissues/ligs one must use low-intensity, long-duration stretching. This is said to favor the “plastic” response, whereas high-intensity, short-duration stretching favors the “elastic” response. I am particularly interested in the duration issue here. Intuitively, this correlation between duration and plastic response makes sense. Moreover, the reputation that hanging has as the royal road to length gains backs up this idea. However, there are many who have seen length gains from manual stretching, sometimes significant gains. And if I’m not mistaken, most manual stretching routines involve sets of short-duration stretches from thirty seconds to one minute. This seems to contradict the research in question.

Some background: I started my PE career about nine months ago by hanging. I started with a homemade hanger but quickly purchased a Bib starter. I saw gains of about 3/8” in the first couple of months, and then nothing. I know that this type of experience of “hitting a wall” after some initial gains is not uncommon. Additionally, at one point I experienced some nerve damage from hanging. Clearly I was doing something wrong, though I’m not certain what. Fortunately, the nerves healed completely, and in fairly quick time. However, this experience scared me off of hanging somewhat. More importantly, my living situation has changed, and now I simply do not have the privacy or time to hang. At least, I don’t have the privacy or time to hang for very long each day. On most days I can sneak in about two hours of PE; on some days I only have one hour, or less.

Consequently, I’ve changed my routine to one of manual stretching and jelqing, which I’ve been following for about four months now. First, I do a series of lig stretches, mostly BTC, but other angles as well. I do this for ten to fifteen minutes total stretching time, using a combination of thirty second stretches and one to two minute stretches, which is about all my hands can take. Then I stretch my tunica for another six to eight minutes total stretching time, using a series of stretches of thirty seconds each. Lastly, I jelq for fifteen to thirty minutes. Occasionally, I follow the jelqing with one or two clamping sets. I’ve seen a bit of girth increase as well, but I’ve wanted to hold off on this (the rubber band theory). I’ve followed this schedule fairly consistently, but on account of the privacy thing there are some days when I cannot do PE.

My unit certainly looks and feels a bit longer. But the last time I measured I was the same length as when I first started the manual stretching and jelqing routine four months ago. Bummer! In light of Hobby’s research, I’ve started using my Bib hanger as a stretching device. This allows me to hold stretches for a longer time. But I’ve only just started this, so I can’t say what the results might be.

I’d really like to hear from both stretchers and hangers on this low-intensity, long-duration principle. If someone only has two hours a day max for PE, what do you recommend? Would hanging during this time be of any use, or do you need longer daily periods of hanging to see results? How come some people see significant results from manual stretching by doing sets of thirty seconds to one minute stretches? Given that the above stretching and jelqing routine has not produced results in four months, what do you suggest?

Thanks in advance,

Motivated

Hey Motivated,

You did not mention whether you are using heat during your stretching routines.

As I understand hanging theory, the issue with hanging only 1-2 hours per day is whether you’ll be able to inflict microtears at a fast enough rate to keep your body’s natural healing process from erasing all of your efforts. Also, whether you can do it without ripping your dick off.

Heat seems to be an important catalyst for length gains. I recommend abundant heat during your short sessions. Stop applying heat about 10 minutes before you’re finished to let the tissues “set” in an expanded state.

I have also tried doing manual stretches with a Bib Hanger. The only problems I see are (1) muscle fatigue may keep you from getting a good workout and (2) the force you apply is variable and potentially dangerous.

Based on my current level of understanding (5 months PE and read voraciously), hanging seems like the better choice. Use plenty of heat and one position only (either BTC or OTS, depending on your LOT). Increase your weight to get to fatigue quickly (within 1/2 hour), and ride out the fatigue. Reduce the weight once fatigue is reached if pain sets in.

The basic idea is to hang in fast forward. You don’t have the benefit of time, but the objective is still to inflict well controlled amounts of damage to your unit, without causing an outright injury. Use higher weight and be especially careful.

Since I’m still fairly new to all this, I will not be offended if others come out with better suggestions.

This is very bad news for me indeed. I just started PE two weeks ago, and the main thing I want is more length (I have more than adequate girth), but I don’t have the time or privacy to do hanging, so I can only do manual stretching. I’ll keep in mind the importance of heat and make sure I warm up extra well (I’ve been doing this already). I wish there were more people who have made great gains in length from manual alone.

ModestoMan,

Thanks for the advice. If I am honest, I’ve been very inconsistent about the heat thing. Sometimes I warm up with a washcloth and hot water, or I take a hot shower just before stretching. But I only do this sometimes. Again, it’s the time thing. Since reading Hobby’s post, I bought a heating pad and have been using it. What heat source do you use? How does one keep the heat applied when manual stretching? I use two hands to stretch. Are you hanging now? Or are you still stretching with the Bib hanger?

One thing that confuses me is this, which is really the point of my long post and questions above. If one to two hours of hanging might not be sufficient to inflict the necessary microtears, then how is a manual stretching session any better?

Swinteck,

I wouldn’t use my experience as a reference. Many here have seen great gains from manual stretching. And who knows, maybe the lack of consistent heat has been a reason for my lack of further gains.

Modesto and motivated,

This is an abridged quote from monty- find the whole one at this thread Starting hanging again

One of the things that I would like to get everyone to understand is that PE gains come from stretching ligaments when they aren’t looking. Think of your car seat belts. If you jerk hard on the belt it locks up. Your ligs have a mechanism similar in that they too will lock up under great stress. If you pull on your seat belt lightly then it gives. Your ligs are the same … He (Bib) was saying that most of his work was at 6 to 7 pounds … Our focus should be on progression of gains and not on adding weight…

Check out how many posts there are from guys who say that they were getting no gains from 12 to 15 pounds and went down to 6 and started gaining again. I havent changed my hanging weight in several months and my gains continue. Have faith."

another thing about hanging is apparently better results are seen with some sort of ADS- this helps the microtears heal in the extended state.

motivated,

you make some good points here. As a manual stretcher, I too have not seen gains recently, but I don’t think that is due to hanging being better then stretching. Many people have gained just from stretching as you’ve said. I’m currently trying traction wrapping to see its effects, and will soon use heat (possibly IR lamp) in my routine. I believe you can gain with just about any routine or exercise, as long as you are boosting it with the necessary tools.

ADS, traction wrap, heat, etc.

I can’t comment on using a hanger to stretch, as I don’t have one. I’m also recently using a switch concept which is basically what stubby posted to not let my ligs adapt.

Motivated

Let me give you a perspective here. My routine is not daily and when I can get a session in I usually do not put in more then an 1hr to 1.25hr. 2 hours should be plenty to get to fatigue and then some. So far heat does seem to allow more lig relaxation, but that is for now, as I question whether micro tears occurre when they are in the more plastic state. Unfortunately a long duration is required to compare the results from cold hanging as opposed to heated. I would mention here that consideration should be given to an ADS. I hang PEwieghts all day every day and it’s the light hanging that contributes to gains. Figure if the principle of lighter is better then perhaps the reason your not seeing any gains is a little to much weight. I combine the two concepts and it seems to give me consistent gains. I have to tell you that each month I wonder if I’m going to plateau but each month I record a gain.

Thanks Stubby, JumboDog, and Monty. What I fear most (as I know others do) is that I am one of those people who simply cannot gain. I did see some initial gains, when I was hanging. So hopefully I can repeat this.

Stubby, how is your new hanging routine working out? What do you think of the PEweights?

JumboDog, I’d really like to know more about how you traction wrap and about what your switch concept is. In addition to being more consistent with heat, I think the idea of using other devices (ADS, traction wrap, etc.) makes a lot of sense.

Monty, thanks for your input. I am very impressed, and not a little jealous, on your 2.25 x .75 gains in just over one year—especially given the routine you outline! The seat belt analogy makes sense. It also fits with Hobby’s research on the low-intensity, long-duration principle. Do you remember where you saw Bib say that most of his gains came when he was using 6 to 7 lbs.? I’ve read lots of posts by him, and all I remember are those mega weight figures. Please tell me more about your PEweights. I don’t think I’d be able to wear them all day, however. This would depend on how noticeable they are. I go to the gym, and couldn’t wear them there. I sometimes go surfing, and again couldn’t wear them there. I regularly wear snug (but not tight) jeans, and I’m supposing that an ADS or PEweights require very loose-fitting trousers. When I am home, I am sitting most of the time at my desk. It’s hard to imagine that the PEweights would be of any use when seated. Are there other ADS devices that people would recommend? Perhaps traction wrapping. I need to learn more about that. But the idea of keeping Mr. Happy stretched (or straight) all day long makes a lot of sense. Any other suggestions?

Motivated,

My new hanging routine (which is not documented in the other thread) seems to be going well I haven’t see any results but I have not measured either- I think as I see my penis every day the only way to see results is by measuring… unless it grows an inch overnight. I plan on measuring around the 15th of Dec and going from there.

I do feel a light pull in the ligs while hanging and then an almost unnoticeable feeling in them while doing ADS. I don’t ADS as much as I’d like as I’m still perfecting the technique, but when I get them on right it feels great and I can go Hours with no discomfort. Both these feelings (the light pull from weights and ADS) line up with Monty’s Seat belt theory.

So my new routine is 1hour hanging in the AM with heat, I just hang Straight down in my sweatpants and use the waistband to hold a heating pad in place. I follow this with ADS- hanging with PEweights. I find that wearing boxer briefs helps minimize the obviousness of the weights but am still only wearing them with loose Jeans.

Hey Motivated,

I use a rice sock. I also have several heating pads (but not an IR pad ): ) and a space heater that throws off a ton of IR. Currently, I use only the rice sock.

I do very little manual work. I mostly hang using my Bib Hanger. I hang BTC sitting in a desk chair. I work out of my house, so I have plenty of privacy. I shoot for 3 or 4 sets in the AM, 3 or 4 sets in the PM, 20 minutes each.

I keep the rice sock in place by stuffing it down the front of my underwear. The elastic of my underwear holds it right against my ligs.

Manual stretching is not better than hanging. I actually think it’s less effective. Hanging allows you to apply greater force and maintain greater consistency over a longer period of time. Best of all, you can multitask (I’m hanging now).

This light versus heavy issue is forever being debated. Whoever figures it out is going to win a Nobel Prize!

Here are some opinions and facts:

From my reading, Bib viewed the ligs as cables—apply enough force and they will plastically deform.

Hobby viewed them as active tissues—lighter weight and heat applied over a long period of time will encourage ligaments to remodel in a longer state.

Studies have shown that collagen fibers actually align with one another in unison to resist applied forces.

We also know that ligaments are visco-elastic. They continue to elongate over time (creep) when subjected to constant force. Current thinking is that elongation is the result of ground substance slowly oozing out of the stressed areas, and that the effect is temporary.

Collagen fibers cannot be stretched more than 5% or so; more than that and they tear. Collagen fibers have a higher tensile strength than steel.

Put it all together and what do you have? A mystery.

I plan to follow the example of those who came before me and succeeded.

I never read that Bib gained at 6#. I thought it was the 15-20# range where he had most of his gains. I also haven’t read any reports of people gaining after dropping back their hanging weight to something less than what gives them fatigue. If true, these would be interesting data. Please post where you found this information. I would love to get rid of this bruise on the underside of my dick!

This has some long posts

If I can wade in a little here, let me clarify a couple of things. First I was able to get some pretty consistent hanging sessions in for an elongated period. Having said that it should be pointed out that I had many periods where my hanging routine was interrupted. That’s where the ADS came in. It allowed time intervals where the healing process should have hindered my progress but because of the constant stretching of my ligs under the weight of my ADS my gains were uninterrupted. What I have gathered is that an ADS provides both a low intensity long duration hang environment as well as the combining of high stress on a regular basis that creates new micro-tears.

My routine period seldom lasted over 1 1/2 hours and in many cases I was only capable of 3 or 4 sessions per week. My weight level rarely changed but did creep up to 18 to 20 pounds.

I have since gone through a deconditioning period of 3 months and currently am hanging at the 9 and 10 pound level and feeling like that is plenty. My deconditioning period only ended a week and a half ago so stats are still in the making.

I look forward to new gains but I foresee interruptions within the next few months so I with hold any startling gain expectations until my routine can run uninterrupted for at least 3 to 4 months.

This thread has inspired me to start hanging, especially with low weights.

Once pay day comes, I’ve got to get me a Bib starter.

Monty350: Your gains are superb - I’m jealous (lol).

2 questions for you - your response would be greatly appreciated:

1) I have a low LOT, so I should be focussing more on my tunica. With this said, will hanging help me (since it focusses on the ligs)?

2) What weight should I start with? 1 lbs and then move up to 5 or 6 lbs, or should I just start with 5 or 6 lbs right away and not increase or decrease the weight at all?

I know you asked monty but, I have a lot LOT too and I do both upward angle hanging and BTC. My early hanging gains before I did any upward angles did come from BTC, almost .5”. I started out with 5 and quickly went to 7.5 and usually stay there, one or two sets with that and then another with 10 lbs.