Can PE eventually cause impotence?

Please don’t shoot the messenger as I was just doing a study on the tunica structure. I found the following and although it is old I thought that it might be important to take notice of. I am 52, have been doing serious PE for over 3 years and my erection quality is fantastic. So I don’t know what to make of the information in this article. I believe I have a very thick tunica (slow gainer) so maybe this is why I have not had any erection problems. Anyway here is the link.

http://www.ncbi .nlm.nih.gov/en … st_uids=6842691

I read that as manual PE can help to prevent the problem.

Well, there is a certain sense in what the article says. As we age, we have generally less-effective erections; they blame venous leakage: The veins are not clamped down on sufficiently to hold the erection firm. Blood drains out. Logical.

But to say: “During life use of the penis or, eventually, misuse by repeated long-lasting, firm erections (high pressure in the corpora cavernosa) results in deterioration of the tightness of the albuginea, especially when the albuginea is thin (25 per cent of the cases)” seems a major push.

More older men lose erectile function, I’d be willing to bet, because they pay less attention as they age to keeping it. They have sex less often, they exercise less, often they do not monitor or maintain good arterial health or their hormonal levels; they gradually slide into ED.

To say that “misuse by repeated, long lasting erections” is a bad thing is sort of off-the-wall and judgemental. Are the authors suggesting that as we age we have some moral responsibility to have shorter duration erections and less sex? Did they interview the corpses and live participants in the study and determine that they had somehow “misused” their cocks? Did some Victorian retro write this?

SLI, keep doing what you are doing. Meanwhile we need more information than is provided in this on-the-surface, silly study.

As far as I know, most age related ED is due to whole body cardiovascular system decline, and to a lesser extent, hormonal changes. If you stay healthy, you’re probably not going to have ED problems.

Sorry this is off topic but I couldn’t resist since this is a PE forum.

“During life use of the penis or, eventually, misuse by repeated long-lasting, firm erections (high pressure in the corpora cavernosa) results in deterioration of the tightness of the albuginea, especially when the albuginea is thin (25 per cent of the cases)” seems a major push.

We probaly can’t trust really what these guys say from that qoute but if it is true that the tunica when men get older gets thinner from high pressures in the CC then clamping or manual squeezes (ULI, Horses, Jelq Squeeze) in theory should have the same effect for weaking the tunica for length or girth gains. I guess we will never know for sure until someone here or some scientists do good research with whatever latest technology tools the scientists use to do things like tunica measurement? :)

Well so far after 6 years of testing his theory my erection is better than when I was 21.

More yellow flags.

Microstructural disorders of tunica albuginea in patients affected by impotence.

http://www.ncbi .nlm.nih.gov/en … l=pubmed_docsum
The role played by the tunica albuginea in the erection mechanism seems to be very significant in promoting the constriction of sub-albugineal venous reticulum and trans-albugineal effluent veins, as well as providing an inextensible protective structure to the arteriolae and to the intracavernous nerves. The passive function exerted by the tunica albuginea is a result of its structure, which is rich in collagenic fibers, linked by elastic fiber bridges. The presence of structural disorders in the tunica albuginea of 16 patients suffering from psychogenic, arteriogenic and venogenic impotence is evaluated. The results obtained show a significant decrease in elastic fibers in the tunica albuginea of impotent patients compared to a control group of 5 patients with normal erection activity. This structural disorder could result in tunica albuginea alteration and, therefore, in erection insufficiency.

Also;

Elastic fibre concentration in the tunica albuginea of corpora cavernosa and nocturnal tumescence monitoring.

http://www.ncbi .nlm.nih.gov/en … st_uids=7496443

The tunica albuginea of the corpus cavernosum provides the latter with a fibrous framework and plays a significant role in erectile function. Being rich in elastic fibres the tunica albuginea is able to resist overstretching of the corpus at raised levels of intracavernous pressure, compressing the sub-algunineum venous reticulum and promoting the maintenance of erection. Results are reported here on assessment of the concentration of elastic fibres in tunica albuginea in relation to frequency of nocturnal erection, tumescence and penile length and rigidity. Significant correlations were demonstrated between concentration of elastic fibres and duration of nocturnal erection (P< 0.0001), rigidity at TIP(P< 0.001), and rigidity at BASE (P< 0.001). The importance of the structural soundness of the tunica albuginea for achievement of satisfactory erection was thereby underlined.

These are just summaries. It would be great to get the entire article but I have not figured out how to do that yet. The reading I have done lately has drawn focus on these elastic fibers.

sheLovesIt

i want to strongly support avocet’s argument.

correct use of the penis is

1. to pee - which does not require an erection

ans

2. to fuck - which requires an erection

neither is misuse.

so - don’t be afraid of your spontaneous or purposely induced short or longlasting erections *s*.

wheteher pe could cause impotence - sure. nerve damage, in my opinion, would be the biggest risk - they run along the back of your dick (other side than the urethra), along with the penile artery.

take care and enjoy your erections guys *s*

My thoughts:

-The first article concludes that “long lasting erections” can cause damage to the tunica, namely thinning and loss of elasticity. Priapism can cause this damage, but that is much different than erections for normal healthy individuals. It would be interesting to see how they concluded that “long lasting erections” were the cause of the ED they investigated, and how they define it.

-As far as PE, we don’t really know what the stress we put on the tunica actually does to it. There must be some remodeling that occurs, but would it increase or decrease the amount of elastic fibers?

-I wonder how they non-invasively examine the tunica structure of patients?

mravg,
I am pretty sure that PE decreases the amount of elastic fibers or at least breaks the crosslinks between them. This is why most people gain flaccid length easily. The way I understand the tunica to be structured is that it is made up of collagen and elastin fibers. The collagen are very strong but obviously they are not fully stretched out when the penis is flaccid. It is the elastin fibers which support and constrain the relaxed collagen fibers. If all of your elastin fibers were broken you would have a very long limp dick that would fill instead of inflate upon erection. I have not read enough about how the tunica is involved in producing an erection except to note that it creates a container for the CC’s

sheLovesIt

That sounds right, but if it were that simple, ED would be widespread among PE’ers. So I think that when they describe an ED caused by loss of elasticity, perhaps they are describing a tunica that can no longer provide sufficient pressure for venous clamping. The tunica of PE’ers is probably more rigid and able to provide higher pressures (from an overall increase in thickness?), which may be the reason why so many guys report improved erections?

I think your expalation is in the first article and the second, here:

In other words, it constricts veins so blood doesn’t flow out of the penis.

mravg,
You said “In other words, it constricts veins so blood doesn’t flow out of the penis.” I agree, although blood does flow out of the penis during erection just not as much as flows in.

My question is, If it is the elastic fibers in the tunica that are responsible for that constriction and if PE tends to reduce the function of the elastic fibers, then is there a point at which a PE’er is making a choice between a larger dick and a functional dick?

Not that I believe the following as fact, but I recall posts that claimed that the tribesmen who hung rocks and stretched their penis to incredible lengths were also impotent.

My mental model of the tunica fibers (collagen and elastin) now suggests that newbie gains are made by stretching mainly the elastin fibers as few collagen fibers have been recruited. After newbie gains the load begins to mainly rest on the stronger collagen fibers. This level stretches the weaker collagen fibers (small bundles). Eventually a plateau is reached and then significantly heavier stretching and hanging is required. This is where strong collagen bundles (large crosslinked bundles) remain. Through all these phases different elastin fibers being stretched.

I think I am in this final phase. I am currenlty hanging 12.5 lbs for 3 sets and measuring BPFSL after each set while still in the BIB. I am at 7.5” . I am currently stuck there. I was stuck there before my long decon break. I plan to increase the weight slowly while carefully monitoring my PI’s.

At this point in my mental model I am trying to understand if there are always some elastin fibers which are being “held in reserve” to support the remainig collagen fibers they are cross-linked with. I am hoping that the answer is yes and that these reserve elastin fibers will provide enough constriction to insure an adequate erection. Supporting this is the fact that my penis is still very elastic even though I have become more of a shower and less of a grower.

Anyway, just some thought I wanted to share and get opinions on.
Thanks,

sheLovesIt

I’m a old man. When I started here I was having trouble getting and maintaining an erection, without viagra etc. I have actually had decent gains in both length and girth since starting.BUT, the greatest thing is playing with my dick all the time again like when we were kids.Since I started I now get nightly hardons and morning and do not have to use Viagra all the time. It is like the sucker came alive again! I have found beating the hell out of it for a few days and then taking some healing time off works great for me.If it hurts, gee maybe you should stop.

I would have thought so also, but in the first article you linked, what do you think they mean by perfect closure?

I suppose there is always a risk, since we are doing something that has hardly been studied at all in mainstream medicine, but if you look around this forum, there is very little anecdotal evidence that ED is a common result from PE. When you say “reuce the function of the elastic fibers”, I think that may be wrong. Perhaps it just changes them a bit, but not in a detrimental way.

Sounds reasonable.

We have to remember that these mental images and theories may seem reasonable but are still just theories.
It would be nice to have the complete articles associated with the absatracts you provided.
The first article talks about a decrease in tightness, while the second two articles talk about a decrease in elastic fibers. We have no reason to believe that PE causes either.
I think your idea of elastic fibers “held in reserve” is flawed, in that you have to picture all connective tissue as being alive and constantly remodeling. You don’t have a set amount of elastin that is all gone if you break it. There are fibroblasts within the connective tissue structure, constantly producing new collagen and elastin. Although PE might cause some changes in the way the fibers are oriented, the amount of collagen and elastin is more likely to increase rather than decrease by the stimulation of the stress of PE, I think.

What you leave out is the fact that, as mravg is trying to explain, during PE one is theoretically stretching the tunica in a gradual way. The tunica responds, gradually, with a renewal of cell tissue and the addition of tissue to itself. If no new tissue were being created within the tunica to accomodate the additional capacity of the CCs - length and girth - those of us with significant gains would end up with disfunctional cocks which does not seem at all to be the case, listening to the preponderance of members here over the years.

If you were to poll significant gainers here as to erectile function improvement or loss, I feel sure that most of those (who do not also whip themselves regularly into frenzies of burst capillaries and tissue exaustion) would report improvement in erectile function.

We older guys - who according to the piece ought now to be as limp as dishrags all the time, our tunicas having failed - have healthier nocturnal erection patterns and faster erectile responses, too, to sexual stimulation. Granted, some of us need to rely on ED drugs for some help. However, if our tunicas had lost their elasticity, those drugs wouldn’t be getting and keeping us hard; we’d all drain venously as fast or faster than we could supply arterially.

There is a laundry-list-long of the causes of ED. It has been shown scientifically, over and over in studies, that those men who facilitate - by whatever mechanical or pharmacological means - more erections, tend to have more of them in the future. They are getting regular shots of highly-oxygenated blood to their units and keeping them healthier than they would otherwise be.