Exploring the Science of the EtP Model

I’ve seen a couple studies of treating Peyronie’s with extenders (funded by the extender companies, of course). They seem legit, and the results believable — in line with most anecdotes here, anyway.

Are they bogus???

I didn’t notice that they were selling anything. Were they? I’ll go check.

Oh yeah, they are. Wasn’t sure of the Finnish links, but the one page has them (Yksityisyyden suoja)

I have an idea that just about all of the clone stretchers now can be traced back to that doc that did the JES extender. The one with the legal problems.

It’d be interesting to see how many other members have experienced decreased gains over time ?

chip, there’s no question it happens…the only questions are “How much?” & “How soon?”

If you have any notions of “100% retention” over a span of 20 or 30 years, forget. That won’t happen.

I lost more than 50% of my EL gains in about 4 years, lil12big1 lost about 25% of EL gains in 6 years (which is actually probably the best I’ve heard).

supersizeit says he lost 100% of his gains (over a long time). Others have reported significant losses even after only 1 year or so.

Wad, are you saying “that won’t happen… period!”, or “that won’t happen without some sort of maintenance or continued lightweight PE routine”?

I haven’t understood you to say that retention is impossible if you continue PE in some form.

Losing gains is inevitable because even non PE’ers lose size as they get into their 40’s and 50’s. And preventing the losses would seem possible but with as all PE in general it’d be about experimenting with the right amount of maintenance to see what works for you. PE or no PE, if you don’t touch it, it’s going to shrink.

Wad, although your nick is very familiar to me, I can’t seem to recall what’s been your routine. Have you used lots of ADS ?

Also, should I understand that those of you who had made significant gains in both lenght and girth lost most of it, got discouraged and dropped PE altogether ?

Chip, don’t let all this scare you too much. Wad is doing us a service by studying the long-term effects of PE, no doubt. But remember, this is WITHOUT maintenance. Even my own experience (4+ years without PE/no maintenance) indicates we will lose gains to some degree, without a maintenance program. Some lose more, some lose less, I fell somewhere in the middle.

I can’t emphasize enough, this proves the necessity for maintenance once we reach goals, or otherwise quit full-time PE. Just don’t let this scare people into dropping out, thinking all that hard work is for nothing. It will be for nothing if you don’t implement a maintenance plan though. Pure and simple.

chip, I’ve never used an ADS - but I don’t dispute the concept. If you can find a comfortable fit, with sufficient tension, it should work. And, no, I quit for 3+ years without any real losses (I didn’t quit because of discouragement……..the discouragement came later).

Beretta92, you’re right, I didn’t do jack-shit for 3+ years…nothing.

Lamp, I’m using the word “permanent” in it’s purest sense - i.e., “done deal.” I don’t know how “maintenance” keeps creeping into the conversation. For years, the consensus opinion always was - even literally expressed - “your gains are yours to keep.” Not really. They’re yours to keep IF you keep training.

Hey,in the spirit of integrity, there really is “striated skeletal muscle” within the penis - and this was confirmed via histologic staining, which revealed the striations that are “unique to skeletal muscle.”

However, it is extremely negligible in size. Nonetheless, it does exist. Ergo, I was somewhat wrong…”somewhat” in that I had said “none” - yet the penis is hardly a bundle of striated muscle (such as a biceps).

While there isn’t a “lot” of smooth muscle within the penis, there is significantly more smooth than striated. In practical terms, there’s still nowhere near enough striated muscle to even begin to explain the enlargement we realize through PE. Furthermore, the same decompensation models would apply to the striated muscle of the penis as to the striated skeletal muscle. In other words, size losses should be far greater & far more rapid than what some here (including myself) have experience after a very lengthy layoff (3+ years or more).

Nonetheless, I stand corrected; however, I don’t think this has any bearing on my EtP model. (Furthermore, the possibility of such muscle within the penis was a point of controversy amongst the medical community and was confirmed only relatively recently).

Sorry, if this PDF has been uploaded before. I just found it and it’s interesting (though not for the poor cadavers who’ve had their cocks all sliced up). :(

Wad, your a freaking gem on this forum man, once again, thanks for your posts. I’m the kind of guy who seeks understanding in just about everything, PE was origionally a leap of faith for me, but you help make it a rational venture, so thank you!

So just keep on working it!

Wad, thanks for all your efforts. I’ve been trying to stay away from the science of PE lately and just do a routine, but I have to say that your theory seems very plausible.