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Exploring the Science of the EtP Model

The prefix “hyper” should be explanatory to all. My past study of ‘o koine dialektos enabled me to readily connect the verb graffos….

“Hypergraphia is an overwhelming urge to write. It is not itself a disorder, but can be associated with temporal lobe changes in epilepsy and mania….” (from Wikipedia)

Don’t have epilepsy, not sure about any temporal lobe changes….I’m gonna go with the “mania.”

(I’ll tell you what, I become obsessive when I wrapped up in something…anything……)

Actually, I’m pretty sick of this – wrapping it up right now.

In Closing…

I really don’t want to belabor the point any further, so I just want to wrap up quickly the last few points…

* Why do PE gains in general, for the vast majority of practitioners, seem rather paltry?

Contrasting PE gains with the extreme gains of competitive bodybuilders isn’t exactly a perfect comparison. There are pros & cons for both sides of the equation. While accomplishment in any human endeavor is dictated by one’s genetic limits, those same genetic limits can be “cheated” by bodybuilders (hgh, testosterone, anabolic steroids, etc.); whereas, not so for PE’ers.

In terms of “difficulty,” gym workouts are obviously more draining – even systemically. Whereas, “workin’ one’s gherkin” doesn’t release catabolic hormones into the body, tax the adrenals, cause testosterone levels to temporarily drop, release free radicals into the blood stream, affect insulin levels, etc., etc.

It is a fair statement to make that many, many thousands of bodybuilders worldwide have realized “development” that so far outstrips even the most elite PE gainers. I believe this is because there’s less “wiggle room” for PE. I believe that PE causes a thinning of structures; and a structure can be thinned only so much.

* If the GvM model (Growth via Mitosis) is true, why can a PE’er cease training for (in my case) 3+ years with nearly zero losses – or, as in the case of lil12big1 – go 6 years off and lose only 25% of length gains?

Even if we all concede that the purported GvM physiology for PE might not be “identical” to that of striated skeletal muscle, there still is no legitimate explanation as to why the onset of so-called “decompensation” could be so incredibly delayed.

One proponent of the theory suggested a “profusion of new cells.” But the continued training would then enlarge those cells (the same way that fat cells don’t “disappear” – in the absence of liposuction – but enlarge or shrink, accordingly). Therefore, after cessation of PE, those cells should, at the very least, reduce in size. That, of course, would result in a size reduction…and it wouldn’t take 37 months to first become visible.

* If the plastic deformation model (EtP Theory) is true, why should shrinkage ever occur?

The answer to this, of course, was already stated in “EtP Deformation Theory.pdf” (XII. EtP EXPLORED IN FULL [p. 20-21]; XV. Q & A [p. 28-31] .

Yo sé que esto necesita mucho leer. Lo siento mucho, señores.


¡No más!

Good idea, marinera…but how should I respond???

Was a grower/became a (semi-)shower/now a grower again ??

I can’t read semi-grower anywhere in that poll.

Originally Posted by wadzilla
I tried to analyze the F:E ratios of some posters critical of my EtP model, but ran into problems.

lil12big1, Tossed Salad, mgus, Mick had incomplete entries in the dB, while bigtiny454, E man made no entries.

Why are my measurements critical to the model? :confused:

I'm a big fan of 50 Cent, or as we call him in Zimbabwe, four hundred million dollars.

Originally Posted by wadzilla
I appreciate your input, man. Regarding BPFSL, I’m not so sure if that has as much to do with “elasticity” as it does with tissue conditioning. In the past, my BPFSL always shot up after a decon break, and I would get excited about it - but that never “translated” into anything.

I’ve come to believe that “tissue conditioning” is different from elasticity. Consider how a newbie usually gets petichiae (I know I did). But that stops relatively soon - long before any gains or changes in flaccid size. Even a vet can get this if he returns to PE vigorously after a long break.

I would recommend that you try to pay attention to your “typical flaccid” (regarding elasticity), and you might want to track BPFSL regarding the condition of your tissues.

Yes, definitely. I am watching the flaccid very closely at this point. This has become sort of an experiment to me, as I restarted after all those years. My goals and dedication are even better than back in the early 2000s when I first started. I WILL eclipse what I did back then…

Back to that flaccid. I have been hesitant to put it in the PE data site so far, rather putting in the number that it never seems to slip below, but I have definitely realized significant flaccid gains from my 6 months back on hard-core PE. I won’t change the number until it is 100% of the time, but my flaccid is (75+%) of the time at least 1/2” in girth, and 3/4+” in length, larger than it was when I re-started PE. I had not realized much of a flaccid loss during my years off PE. I’m starting to think, shit I might indeed attain that 5”L X 5”G flaccid I would love to have, ultimately becoming more of a “shower” than a “grower”.

And you are so right about the glans being near impossible to grow!

Originally Posted by wadzilla


It’s also my opinion that you’ll have better chances of making girth gains by training an unloaded tunica. Some, in favor of extreme & dangerous girth routines, will heartily disagree with me. But I’ll say this, having gained about 1 ¼” of EG – without ever really focusing on girth – I never sustained an injury from any impaction exercise.

This would tend to support the thought that it is better to pump when NOT fully erect, rather than pumping fully erect and trying to maintain a 100% erectuion during the pumping session.

For Lampwick, becoming hung like a donkey was the result of a total commitment.


It’s a site from Finland promoting mechanical penile stretching as a treatment for Peyronies. I highlighted some relevant areas showing the “before” & “after” thickness from penile stretching (PS).

AFTER they did this traction PE, both the tunica & the septum thinned…as well as the penises gaining length [albeit, some of the length might be attributed to the straightening process - from 34.1±4.9° before to 20.0±12.2° after PS (p<0.05)].

What do I find most relevant? These guys wore the stretcher for 4 hrs / day, for 3-6 months. They achieved some length & some straightening…yet, “amazingly” there was no “profusion of cells” no Gvm “build-up.” There was, actually, a thinning of the tunica & the septum.

Introduction & Objectives:

Peyronie’s fibrotic lesions frequently affect the dorsal tunica albuginea and the septum of the penis. Subsequently they can lead to plaque development, penile deformity and pain during erection. Duplex sonographic scanning may allow an objective evaluation of the fibrosis, assessing the thickening of the tunica albuginea and penile plaques. The aim of this study is to investigate the efficacy of mechanical penile stretching (PS) to reduce plaque thickness and penile deformity during erection.

Materials & Methods:

Eight patients (age 58.5±5.3 yrs.) affected by Peyronie’s disease, apparently unmodified at least for the latest 3 months and causing penile curvature during erection (PEC), were trained to use a mechanical penis stretcher. None of them complained about erectile dysfunction according to IIEF test, and penile pain.
After intracavernous injection of PgE1 5-15 mg to obtain full erection (assessed by both Digital Inflection Rigidometry and palpation), cross scanning of tunica albuginea by duplex sonography, photographs of the erect penis according to Kelami’s projections, and penile diameters and length measurements were performed before and after daily home PS application (at least four hours / day) for 3 to 6 months.
Individual follow-up examinations were scheduled after 3 and 6 months. At the present time, all patients have concluded the 3-month follow-up, and two of them the 6-month one.


The tunica highest thickness resulted 1.8±0.6 mm before and 1.6±0.3 mm after PS (n.s.). The septum latero-lateral maximum thickness was 2.2±0.7 mm before and 1.8±0.8 mm after PS (n.s.). Penile length, dorsally measured from penopubic angle to meatus, was 100.5±27.3 mm before and 104.6±22.2 mm after PS (n.s.). Photographs showed that PEC decreased from 34.1±4.9° before to 20.0±12.2° after PS (p<0.05). The treatment was well tolerated (no severe complication and no drop out occurred).

Conclusions: These results suggest a promising use of PS in selected Peyronie’s patients affected by penile curvature without erectile dysfunction.

andro-medical (Finland)

Originally Posted by marinera
This is also related: Hypertrophy Of Penis

“THE origin of hypertrophy of the penis is not yet understood; from cases that have been reported to the medical profession, the disease would seem, in some manner, to be associated with injuries to the lymphatic vessels.

Robert W. Taylor gives an account of a case where the organ grew to the length of eleven inches, the circumference being proportionately increased after the individual had received a gunshot wound of the lymphatic vessels of the groin.
In the case of the person who came under my charge enlargement seemed to follow traumatism; its history is briefly as follows….”

Then he goes on to describe some guy whose penis ballooned to 10.5 x 9.75 ???

He also spoke of enlarged & suppurating glands in each side of his groin.

I don’t know. That’s some bizarre shit. Probably due to massive lymph fluid buildup (akin to pumping). And this guy kept doing “whatever” to his dick before he performed his acrobatics routine.

This is from the 1890’s………I don’t know. It just seems really suspicious.

>>…he devised a harness so adjusted that he could strap the penis to the scrotum between his testicles. For several years he utilized this apparatus when he appeared in the ring; but frequently when performing his gyrations the organ would become twisted, causing pain, tenderness, and swelling, lasting for several days, followed by a subsidence to his normal condition.<<

it isn’t completely different from what are we doing when PE. And there are pics of the gigantic penis - I don’t think phostoshop existed at that time.

What instead should be noted, is that the word ‘hypertrophy’ isn’t used in it’s technical meaning in that article; the Doc is just saying that the penis became gigantic, but not that it was due to cellular hypertrophy.

The same is true for the other articles regarding megaphallus: there isn’t a microscopic analisys of cells or anything, Meds did a superficial hypohtesis about the causes and was more focused about how ‘fix’ the problem. This should make us think. Meds aren’t (never been) really interested in penis growth, they are interested in pathological things.


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