Gains, Size & Perceptions - NOT a size survey

My main argument was not so much about symmetry, but what a woman thinks is “big.” While somebody with a lot of length obviously looks very long, I think the girth is what most women feel/focus on/enjoy, etc.

A fat cock probably feels bigger than a long thin one. And if your press a woman to put a number on that fat cock, she might distort the length remembering how it felt.

A guy could have very respectable length - say 7.5” - but if his girth is less than 5 inches, he probably won’t leave much of an impression on her - at least not in her categorization of “small-medium-large.”

But another guy might be less than 7” long, but if his girth is 6” or more, she will definitely conclude he had a “big dick.” Even though he wasnt’ going in as far as the longer guy, he probably required more “care” to work into a groove - and she would’ve felt it so much more. With the 7.5 x 4.8, especially if she was very wet, he would’ve easily “slid in and out” of her with minimal resistance.

So, if she were thinking back on those two lovers, she would’ve actually regarded the thicker 6.8 as bigger than the thinner 7.5 - and, volumetrically, she would’ve been right.

Of course, the Big Dick Jackpot is both a lot of length & a lot of girth.

Makes sense. A large girth can provide a woman with continuous pleasure from the moment you first enter her. But a long length is only noticeable when you give her a balls-deep, tonsil-tickling plunge.

Wad,

What you say is very, very true. We men do focus more on length than girth, even though we all know that girth is what matters most to women.

However, length is still of some significance. First, from a purely functional perspective, a longer dick will be able to hit the CDS. I am told that women really like this. I wouldn’t know from experience; I think that once I’ve hit a woman’s CDS! Still, too much length is not a good thing, in my opinion. I would guess that 7.5 to 8.5 bone-pressed (with an “average” fat pad) is an optimal range for this functional purpose.

Second, there is also the non-functional matter of aesthetics, the sheer look of a penis. A dick with a bit of length on it simply looks good! Women like this. Men like this. We all like this! Moreover, this mere aesthetic matter also affects the pleasure a person experiences. For example, we know that the look of a meal (how it is presented on a plate, etc.) affects how it tastes. I’m certain that the same is true for perception and pleasure as concerns things sexual.

On this perceptual point, it is also important to bear in mind the following: As one’s dick becomes thicker, it will appear shorter. Therefore, to keep your dick looking even the same length (let alone bigger), as it becomes wider, you must also try to make it longer.

Previously, I tried to post a rather long-winded message, but my DSL connection crapped out before I could send it & I lost the entire content of the message. Anyway, let me condense what I said in that previous, failed message. Wad is right, a woman can appreciate the ‘feel’ of a cock with lots of girth, much more than she can a ‘pencil dick’. Hell, my cock ‘feels’ huge in my hand, then I look down & I see good ol’ ‘Stubby’. Tactile sensations are important, I don’t question that at all, but we are a very ‘visual’ species. Aesthetics DO matter in all things. This is a fact, not just conjecture.

Hermann von Helmholtz, a very smart cookie I must say, believed vision to be a form of unconcious inference. This is basically a fancy way of saying that we unconciously size things up based on certain assumptions of the world around us, when we don’t have enough real data. This is a pretty good system & we are usually able to judge sizes & distances pretty well, men better so than women. Women got the better verbal skills, when the cards were dealt. But, the eyes, or rather the brain, CAN be tricked. Magicians do it all the time. And, even though this is not a optical illusion, in the strictest sense, the fact is that objects do ‘look’ smaller or larger, depending on their proportions. If you were looking at a 8”x8” cock NEXT to an 8”x6” cock, you would have no doubt in your mind which is the larger of the two. Because they are side by side, it is easy to see that the 8”x8” cock is much bigger overall. But, without this point of reference, this rather large cock would not look so big, merely fat.

MX, the people that you mention, ALL have much better proportioned cocks than me, especially you. It is very easy to say that length isn’t that important, when you have a surplus, especially in comparison to your girth. On the flip side of that coin, it is very easy for me to say that girth isn’t that important, since I have a surplus of girth, in comparison to my length. The true ‘ideal’ cock is probably somewhere in between. But, to illustrate my point, here is a breakdown on some of our proportions:

MX - 8.6250” bp x 5.875” = 1.47 - Another .625” girth & you have just about the perfect overall size.
Phat9 - 9.7500” bp x 7.000” = 1.39 - Very good proportion, but maybe too big & scary for some women. :D
Dino - 8.5000” bp x 6.500” = 1.31 - 6.5” of girth with 8.5” of length is about as good as it gets in the real world. Perfect girth & length for most women. IMHO
Me - 7.5625” bp x 7.375” = 1.03 - Can you say stubby, boys & girls, I knew that you could. :D Also, giving me head is a chore for most women. :(

MX, to have the same proportions as you, I would have to be almost 11” & I don’t see that happening. And, quite frankly, I wouldn’t want that much length. I think that 9” bp may be achieveable & this would give me a much better ratio of 1.22. Still not as good as any of you, but one that I can accept. I don’t think that I would want anything over 9”, even if it’s in better proportion. Because I like getting laid & considering my girth, this might just preclude much of that activity. :D

Wad, I know that your post wasn’t about symmetry, but I can honestly say that not once, have I heard a woman say, “God your cock is BIG!” It’s always, “God you have a FAT cock.” Some may say that this is splitting hairs, but in my mind, atleast, fat is NOT big. If I had 6” of girth I would be pretty happy with that considering my length. Anyway 6-6.5” girth is pretty much the ‘ideal’ for most women. Actually, at 6” girth, you are at just about the perfect thickness for not only sex, but for receiving blowjobs. While, most women I’ve been with, enjoy giving my cock a handjob, most get tired of trying to suck it VERY quickly. I think that everyone will agree, handjobs just aren’t the same.

I started kinda young, too young actually, so, at 36, I have had my fair share of sex. I only say this, because I know some may say, “You just haven’t been with enough women yet, just keep getting out there & you’ll hear a woman say it’s big.” And, while I know that they can obviously ‘feel’ my size, they don’t seem to be able to ‘see’ my size. I’m not much for being tied down, so I haven’t been in a real ‘relationship’ in quite a few years & even that lasted less than 3 years. And, the way that it ended, turned me off of the whole ‘couple’ thing, maybe for good. I would say that most of my ‘relationships’ now, are lucky to last a month, some no more than a single night. I, however, am not very happy that I can’t seem to trust women anymore, so I don’t want to come across as some kind of ‘Sam Malone’ or anything like that. I envy guys who are happily married & I would love to find a woman that I could grow old with, instead of just the very empty, meaningless, ‘hook-up’, but I digress. Anyway, in all of this time, no woman, not one, NONE, have ever said the magic word BIG. If you take my 6.75” nbp measurement into account, then the ‘visual’ presentation is even less impressive.

If you take the average sized cock into account, 5.875” nbp x 4.75”, that’s a ratio of 1.24 nbp. Before I got back into shape, I was about 6.25 nbp length, which is a ratio of about .85 nbp. While the .5 less fat in my pubic region has helped to make it look a little better, at a ratio of .92 nbp, it’s still not good enough. MX, Phat9, Dino, even you Wad, are all MUCH better proportioned than I am. Wad, you have the same length that I do, but you have 6” girth, I have 7.375”. I wonder if you had to look down at what I have every day, if you would still think that girth is so important? I know that you’ll probably say that you would still prefer more girth, but it’s easy to say, when you don’t have to live with it. I don’t want to sound like a whiner, because I know that a fat cock gives me a considerable edge over a guy with say, 4.75” girth, but that doesn’t change the fact that it looks much shorter than it is, because of the disproportional girth.

So, basically, to sum it up: Girth is NOT everything. IMHO, If you want to be known as BIG & not just FAT, you’re going to need a ratio of around 1.2 or better & a length of 7” or better. Guess what? All of the guys that I mentioned above qualify as BIG, except me. I’m going to need atleast 8.875” bp to achieve this ratio & be considered BIG. Hmmm.. Kinda sucks for me doesn’t it? But, in all fairness, it could be worse. I could have a 5”bp x 5”. So, it’s all relative, but I’d really like that BIG look.

thickone2004,

You’re about 1 3/8” L from where you would like to be, that very well may can be attained. Have you already gained in length?—-I ask since gains do tend to become tougher. The average 5 7/8 nbp x 4.75 g you mentioned is just about exactly where I was before PE. Have the insecurity I had (and still have but am some better I guess) and using that size for so long, and it’s difficult for me to feel much of anything but envy for you.

However, having said that, I understand you. You have paid attention to the exact words and reactions of women. You’ve noticed that you get the “fat’ response, but no special mention of length, and no “big” from any of them. I’ve always done the same thing—- paid attention to details such as that. My problem was always not having anything said about my size when they first see it, (I did eventually receive a very negative comment about my girth from an ex). In time the usual silence when seeing it spoke louder than words for me. Now that I know my size was about average I can more fully realise it was more of a neutral reaction from them, and maybe not as negative as I had imagined.

I like your thinking about ratio giving an overall equal attentioned look from women. Ratio percentage is something that I haven’t thought about much before. At least you can concentrate on just length exercises, have an exact amount in mind, and don’t have to concern yourself about finding ways to increase girth also. Good luck.

Thickone,

I couldn’t agree with you more. I started of at 6 3/4”-6 7/8” BPEL by 5” EG. My length has increased a bit to 7”-7 1/8” BP, but my girth has gone up to about 5.6” now. Post a clamping or pumping session, my girth is anywhere from 5.75” to 6”. Needless to say, I like the extra girth. And I do believe that girth is of greater value, in some sense. Still, as you effectively argue, proportion matters. And when my unit is thicker but the same length, it simply looks shorter. So I can sympathize with the “stubby” suggestion.

I’d like to reach 6” to 6.5” girth. But I do think that I’ll need another inch to an inch and a half length to balance this girth out. Once again, there is also the functional benefit of length: It allows you to hit a woman’s CDS.

But why have you concluded that 6” to 6.5” is the “ideal” girth for most women. Have some women complained about your girth? I understand the blowjob thing, but, honestly, I’m one of those men who much prefers a good handjob to a good blowjob. Frankly, blowjobs have never excited me too much. (Bottom line, I prefer the greater friction of a handjob.) Perhaps I haven’t met the right woman yet!

Thickone,

I agree entirely. Before PE I was 7x6 NBP (7.5x6 BP), and, while most women thought it was “huge,” if I probed further, they would invariably say that they were referring to the thickness, not the length. The length was never considered below average — just nothing “unusual.”

So while I still think girth is way more important overall, you’re right that a good girth will, typically, make a cock look shorter. Partly because of this (and partly because 6” girth midshaft seems to be more than enough for most women…), I have focused exclusively on length gains in PEing: I’ve done it for the vanity of having a thick AND long cock. And even after my first half-inch of gains, near the beginning, I noticed a major difference in the appearance — no more “stubbiness”!

Motivated,

Off topic, but I agree about the BJs and HJs :D

This is a big dick.

There is nothing small about it. You are WELL above average in girth and solidly into the large category in length.

If you think you’re ‘stubby’ the work you need to do is more along the lines of sculpting; an aesthetic effort. Fair enough.

But don’t kid yourself or try to kid us. You have a big dick.

I think wad’s initial point is fairly true.

Agree with me or with Thickone?

I’m certain I’m in a minority in saying what I do. Don’t get me wrong, I certainly appreciate a good BJ. But in my book, it simply can’t compare to a first-rate HJ (delivered by a woman, that is; the self-done ones are fine, but they pale even compared to an average BJ).

The problem is, since BJs are so much the talk of the town, few women really know how to give a good HJ. Perhaps this is in part why a good one is so good. I used to date this one woman who … . Well, that’s really off topic!

Yeah, motivated, I meant I agree with you. I have been with only one woman who could really give a good HJ — and it was awesome. But I’ve never experienced an intensely stimulating BJ; without some hand stimulation (in addition to the mouth, that is), in fact, I definitely cannot get off from a BJ.

Perhaps it’s just those bookish women. We may need to try swimming in a different sea. Or, as I suspect, the handjob is simply underrated. It may be time for a revival!

I’m sorry for the delay in responding again. My DSL connection has been down quite a bit lately. :( Anyway..

Motivated, I don’t have any real data suggesting an ‘ideal’ girth, but I personally think that it’s somewhere between 6 & 6.5”, especially when you factor in blowjobs. With this amount of girth, you should be capable of making just about any woman scream, hopefully in pleasure & you’re not too big for her to comfortably give you head, for a reasonable amount of time. Actually, I think Para-Goomba is right, 6” girth is just about ideal, overall. However, if you’re not too concerned about oral sex, I think that it’s much less of a concern.
I would say that somewhere between 7-8” x 6” nbp is probably the ideal size range for ‘most’ women. If I had my choice, I would choose about 8.5” x 6.5” nbp, which is slightly above this ‘ideal’ size. This is plenty of size for 99.9% of the women out there & a nice ratio of 1.31, so it’s very nice to look at & BIG, as well. Hell, who am I kidding, that’s HUGE! But, I think that the perceptions that we get, from the women in porn, have made a lot of us guys feel inadaquate & think to ourselves, that a lot of women ‘want’ or perhaps ‘need’ a HUGE cock like that.
I believe, ‘most’ women just simply wouldn’t want Mandingo or Lex for a sexual partner. Huge cocks, like theirs, are fascinating to everyone & have been universally revered in pretty much every culture on Earth, since the beginning of recorded history. A huge cock gives the impression of power, just look at the ancient depictions of Hercules for an example of this. BUT, I think that ‘most’ women would be scared to put something that big inside of them, regardless of whether they are capable of taking it or not. I believe that there are lots of women who, if given the chance, would like to play with a cock like that & see how it feels in their hands & just simply look at it up close. But, unless they are getting paid thousands of dollars, like the average pornstar, ‘most’ would never ‘fuck’ one this large. Especially when you are talking about the kind of size that Mandingo is endowed with. But, having said that, there ARE women out there who can take that much & then some, so hopefully you won’t run into one of them, but they are out there. If you don’t watch porn, this doesn’t apply to you, because you are not NORMAL! :D <kidding>
No Motivated, I haven’t had any complaints about my girth while having sex, but some have told me that they were a “little sore” the next day. I have had quite a few women who wouldn’t even consider anal sex. Granted, a fair amount of women won’t do anal regardless of girth, so I don’t think that my girth was the only determining factor in these cases, although it may have had something to do with it. I’ve also explored the possibility that not paying them $2,500 for the privilege of anal sex, might also be a factor in their refusals. :D I have to agree with Wad, that more care is needed, when having sex with ‘most’ women. But, women, just as men, come in different sizes, both externally & internally. I have been with some women who didn’t seem to have any problem at all taking my girth & some who have. But usually, if care is taken & there is proper foreplay, there isn’t a problem.
Mr. Happy, I’m not kidding myself & I don’t believe that I’m trying to kid anyone else either. I know that I have a larger cock than the average guy, especially in regard to girth, therein lies my problem. My concern is with the overall ‘visual’ impression that my cock makes to women. Yes, I’m longer than the average guy, by a ‘moderate’ amount, but that simply doesn’t matter, if my girth is larger than the average guy, by a ‘huge’ amount. The overall ‘visual’ impression is skewed & that’s a FACT. It seems that Para-Goomba has experienced pretty much the same thing that I’m talking about, but factor in 1.375” more girth & you’ll see my problem, if you can call it a problem, much clearer.
I haven’t been with a woman who was unhappy with my size, so don’t misunderstand me, I know that I have enough ‘size’ to get the job done. But, I believe that the women are unable to ‘see’ the larger size, lengthwise, because the inordinately large girth simply overshadows any extra length that I may have over the average guy. It just looks stubby & I firmly believe that my excessive girth is the reason why I get the word “fat” instead of “big”. If I had another 1-1.5” of length, or 1-1.5” less girth, there would be much more of a balance & I would ‘look’ big, especially once I’ve had my fat pad lipo’ed & gain about .5” or so visually. Since I don’t see any way of reducing my girth, although I would if I knew of a safe way to achieve this, adding length is my only option.
I, also agree with Wad that a larger girth simply ‘feels’ better to the woman, but I don’t think that a woman feels a cock inside of her & thinks, “Damn that cock’s erect volume must be atleast 30 cubic inches!” :) I’m not trying to be a smart ass, so Wad, don’t take that the wrong way, but it’s just not as simple as that. Yes, it will feel ‘fatter’ to the woman, but ‘bigger’ & ‘fatter’ are not synonymous with one another. These numbers are fine for us guys to look at & say, “Damn, I’m really big, just look at those numbers!” But, I think that in reality, the overall ‘visual’ appearance is going to be the ‘key’ determining factor in whether a woman thinks you’re cock is BIG or simply FAT. If you have 6.75” of girth, but only 6-6.5” of length, you WILL look ‘fat’ & not ‘big’, regardless of how much better it may ‘feel’ to the woman. But conversely, I would bet good money that most women, after being with the guy who had the 7.5” x 4.8” cock, would say, “His cock was big., but it could have been fatter.”

I know that I’m probably analyzing this whole issue to death, but I think that my point is very valid, as is yours, Wad. I believe that the reason I haven’t had a woman call my cock ‘big’ is because my inordinate girth simply skews the overall look far too much. If I were to have about an inch or so less girth, I firmly believe that I would be hearing the word ‘big’, instead of ‘fat’, even though my actual volume would be considerably less. And, I would still have enough girth to make pretty much any woman ‘feel’ stuffed, so I would be truly BIG, even if the numbers say that I’m smaller volumetrically. I believe that you are right Wad, the true cock ‘jackpot’ is plenty of length & girth. But, I still think that a cock must be in the proper proportions before a woman will consider it big, regardless of tactile sensations. Now, that being said, a 9” x 9” nbp cock is HUGE by any standards, so if you possess one of these behemoths, disregard all of the bullshit that I’ve previously said & stay away from my sister! :D My two cents.

Thickone2004 - Any chance you could post a photo in the Members Pics section? I’m really curious what those kinds of proportions look like.

Thickone,

To repeat, I couldn’t agree with your basic theory more: Proportion is a crucial factor in appearance and perception. I cock that is clearly well above average in length, say 9”, would still be considered “massive” (or whatever), even if it was proportinately extremely thick, say 9” girth. But a cock that is closer to the average but still above it, as yours is, would lose some of this appearance of extra length by virtue of being very thick.

Having said that, I’d much rather be thought “fat” by women than “average.” So hats off to you!

I also think that you are right about women and the Mandingo-sized dicks. In fact, in nearly all cases, when I’ve watched a porn film with a woman taking a cock that size, the woman looks like she is in a lot of pain—and I don’t mean the pleasurable sort of pain! I can’t blame them. And they never (or almost never) take anywhere near the whole length! Yes, those big sticks are impressive to look at, and no doubt a lot of women would like to play with one and maybe even give one a try. But very, very few women would count that size as their preference or ideal. So your suggestion of 8.5” NBP x 6.5” is a good one. I’d really like to get to between 8” and 9” BPEL by 6.5” EG. But like you, the length is more difficult for me.

However, my hunch is that most women would respond to a 7.5” x 4.8” schlong by saying it’s “long” not “big.” This in fact supports your theory; it’s proportion again!

What exercises have you tried for length? Have you ever given hanging a thorough chance? I ask because I don’t know. As I said, length gains have been hard for me, but I firmly believe (perhaps incorrectly) that committed time hanging will “do the job,” once I have the time and privacy to so commit. But I have to say, if hanging and everything else truly didn’t work, if I had your girth I’d probably get the lengthening surgery. This is not a suggestion, but only a comment on what I would do. I am of the opinion that the lengthening surgery is safe compared with current surgical girth-enhancing proceedures. You still have to use weights (or something similar) post-surgery. So the lengthening-surgery can perhaps be viewed as an aid to hanging with weights for hardgainers!

Hi Motivated & Para,

At first I tried manual stretching, which I did for a couple of years. I stretched for about 20 minutes per day, so I wasn’t too serious about PE then & I didn’t invest much time in the project. No results. I started seeing devices on the web that could supposedly make your cock longer, if you wore them for a few hours per day. So, I made a device which used the “noose” type connector. Bad idea, I know. I used this for quite a while, even though it was very rough on my glans & painful. Still, no gains. I also bought a PeniMaster, during this time, which I promptly broke, trying to use the damn thing. If your girth is more than 6.5”, then forget about using a PeniMaster, unless perhaps, you mod it. I tried to mod mine, but it still didn’t work for me. Remember, my girth as I hang flaccid, is about 7” or so, which is not a whole lot less than that of my erect girth. So, I’m not knocking the PeniMaster, but they should either have a disclaimer or be able to accommodate all sizes.

Then, on Christmas Eve 2004, my PE quest kicked into high gear & I started hanging with a Captain’s Wench, which I’m still using to this day & worked my way from 5lbs. Up to 10lbs. By the end of March, after having NO results, I quit doing PE completely. I know, a lot of people here will say, “Damn, 3 months is not enough time to start seeing good results.” But, I hadn’t seen “any” results & I just couldn’t take it anymore. I thought, from what everyone here was saying about hanging, that it would be my “magic pill” for length gains & I might even lose a little girth in the process. I quit PE for about 3 months, before I couldn’t take the feeling of failure anymore. I’m not a good loser, I’m not accustomed to it & it doesn’t sit well with me. I can usually find a way to win at something, if I put my mind to the problem or obstacle & do the work required, but this was stymying me at every angle.

So, after brooding over this problem for a while, I decided early last month, to start hanging again, but this time I would double the weight that I hang to 20lbs. Well, I’m glad that I didn’t let this beat me, because today I measured my cock & I have gained a hair over .25” in length! Needless to say, I’m in a very good mood today. I’ve been at this quest, for more length, for 3 years. I started PE’ing on 07-01-2002 & I have been pretty consistent for all of this time, with the exception of the 3 months or so that I quit in disgust. So, you see, I don’t give up easily. I’ve been doing this for quite some time & I have put myself through a fairly considerable amount of pain along the way. And Para, I posted my recent progress pics before posting this message. I, also posted a few other pictures last month, when I started back hanging. None of the pictures, that I have taken, show my complete cock while it’s fully erect. One picture that I posted shows my entire cock, while tightly wrapped, after a hanging session. I posted this picture because I couldn’t get over how much better my cock looked while wrapped tightly. While tightly wrapped, my cock looked longer, because it was skinnier. If I had a fully erect picture from the same angle, you would immediately see the difference. And, why is it so hard to get a good erection picture. I’ve determined that my cock is afraid of rulers & cameras, atleast while I’m holding them. ;)

The picture that I posted this morning, is a collage, with two mostly flaccid stretched ruler pics taken by me & a fully erect, albeit zoomed-in pic, taken a few months back, by a woman that I know, as a trophy to show her friends the freakshow, I suspect. On that subject, I’ve been getting some stranger than normal glances at my crotch, from her friends, since she took this picture. I’m pretty used to people, men & women, checking out the lump in my pants, because it’s pretty noticeable. Hell, I’ve even caught my own mother & sister looking before, which kind of messes with your head. But, people are normally polite about it, & will look away if you notice them checking it out. But, the looks that I’ve been getting from them lately, make me feel like a piece of meat being inspected at the market & they continue to look even when they know that I’ve noticed them looking.

Not neccessarily a bad thing, mind you, because they are all pretty good-looking, one in particular. :) I know this may sound dumb, but I’m just not comfortable with feeling like an object. I now understand what women mean on this subject. We all want to look our best, feel sexy & get noticed, but in the end, we want to be regarded as a person. On the 4th of July, their behaviour reached it’s peak. I had a party at my home & while we were all roasting some BallPark weiners in my chimenea, one of this womans friends made a comment that they plump when you cook them & then they all looked my way & giggled like schoolgirls amongst themselves, for several minutes. It didn’t take a genius to figure out that she had shown them all the picture of my cock. This idea should be a turn-on & it sort of is, but it’s the way that they reacted that made me a little uneasy. Were they laughing at the “stubby” freakshow cock, or were they laughing because they liked what they saw. It’s been bothering me & I believe that’s what made me start wanting to hang again. I don’t want to be fat & stubby damn it! I hate it! Maybe, I’m just really insecure, I don’t know. I’ve always been a bit of a perfectionist & although some may not understand my “problem”, this proportional thing really bothers me. :(

But, I digress.. This picture that I’m talking about, even though it is zoomed-in, will give you a better idea of the proportion “problem” that I’m talking about. I would ask her to take a picture of my full cock, after it’s worked up properly, but I don’t want her to think that I care about how my cock looks. So, I’m not bringing the subject up, but if she takes a picture of my entire cock while it’s fully hard, I’ll post it here. I’m hoping that if I work hard enough & smart enough, on Christmas morning, I’ll have a nice 8.5” toy to play with & share with my “special” friends. :D