Some PE physiology

The protein collagen is the major component in structural tissue in the body, including in the penis. Excessive amounts, however, form scar tissue, which can impair erectile function. This would have been the fate of those rats that used finasteride.

I do not believe that this is what is occurring because no one that I know here has complained of ED from the exercises. I wouldnt suggest to anyone that if they arent gaining then its because they dont pull hard enough. Exactly how hard do you want them to pull?

I made my 1/2 inch in just over a month from light stretches of the tunica only. No downward stretches at all because I believe Bib’s Lot theory may be correct.

If this IS what is happening then I want no part of it. You are talking about radically destroying the smooth muscle to get gains. I am assuming this will infuriate the senior members here but if you search the web, youll come up with the same answer. Instead of just listening to one source, educate yourself.

Cya at 8, I’m not infuriated at all - I would be, perhaps, if I were in these forums attempting to peddle some PE “secrets” or potions or lotions, etc. But I know what my gains have been, man. And I have to say that PE actually cured my E.D. - not caused it. I had E.D. before I found PE. And regarding your opinion that “The protein collagen is the major component in structural tissue in the body, including in the penis. Excessive amounts, however, form scar tissue, which can impair erectile function….” I haven’t seen or felt anything remotely resembling scar tissue - which I’m pretty sure I sure be able to feel - especially during a maxed-out erection.
It’s your choice, man, whether “to PE or not to PE” (hey, that might….nah). Anyway, you can post loads of pseudo-science here, as well as unsubstantiated opinions, if that’s what you enjoy doing. I don’t need to cite “studies” or “established opinions”…..I just look down at my woody - 64% bigger than it ever was, rock-hard like a teenager’s tool, and very sensitive to sexual pleasure.
I just can’t wait for more.
:)

One more point….

I’m not saying that PE is without dangers. I’ve stated a number of times that I feel it’s one of the reasons that doctors would never recommend it to their patients. A thrombosed vein is probably the most common risk, but there are other risks also.

I just don’t buy your assertion for one second that PE gains are all “illusion,” or that we’re necessarily destroying our cocks to make them bigger. I’m positive that’s bullshit. My penile health has improved, and so has my sex. Even if you factored out my pleasant size gains, PE would’ve still been worth it.

Also, I knew a guy from school who told me years after the fact that he PE’d 2 inches of EL onto his tool (from “around 5 to just over 7”). He’s the only person I know in real life whose PE’d & admitted to it. It’s been years for him without any side-effects. He no longer goes for more length, because his wife told him to stop, but he still kegels for PC health.

Cya at 8, I understand that you may think you’re trying to “help” guys here; and, if you are, I appreciate the concern. But nobody is trying to force you to PE. If you’re scared of it, don’t do it.

Wadzilla, I quoted that from a web site. I didnt come up with it. I do not doubt it cured your ED at all. I would doubt that an increase in collagen has made you have gains. It isnt a fact that collagen is responsible for gains. In fact, I am almost sure that it isnt what is causing it.

Show me proof that collagen build up is responsible. I can show you what happens when there is too much collagen. This should be based on scientific facts and not speculation.

Cya at 8, I never once asserted that collagen buildup is responsible for PE gains. I was referring to Bib’s belief that collagen can restore thickness to the tunica; I believe that the tunica does not thin over time from PE, but that it probably thickens.
I believe my gains are the result of some lig stretching, some tunica stretching, and CC/CS expansion.
Furthermore, I’m leary about what some so smugly refer to as “scientific fact.” Do you know what “scientific fact” often amounts to? It’s often just today’s theories - until they’re disproven tomorrow.
I’m not into voodoo or major conspiracy theories, but I do believe that there is often “old knowledge” that gets passed along, that has yet to be “validated” by science.
I remember years ago asking doctors (including my uncle, who’s a Harvard-educated pathologist) if BB Squats could really increase overall body mass & elevated testosterone levels, metabolism, etc. I remember his smug, condescending answer to me, like I was an idiot (this was about 24 years ago).
Well, guess what, it’s commonly accepted now that it actually can do those things (although, 24 years ago it had already been known for at least 40 years….lifters from the 1930’s had called BB Squats “The King” exercise, etc.). This same thing has happened with accupuncture, meditation, etc. The West is sometimes slow at catching onto these things. Sometimes it takes, 40, 50….3,000 years for us to catch up. I don’t know about you, but I don’t have 3,000 years to reach my PE goals. :)

Ok, as long as we agree here…..Everyone needs to lighten up. If I find a study the sheds some light on PE, then I post it. Everyones knowledge combined may really get down to the facts here. But it must be up for discussion.

I sometimes feel at times like I shouldnt post against the prevailing theory and this isnt right. I would like to feel that I can add to finding out why or how this is done without having to argue or piss in anyones wheaties.

Oh, I never said that it was an illusion.

I’m really not pissed off. And I don’t object to you posting whatever findings you have (they don’t have to all be pro-PE). But I guess I’m saying I see enough negativity towards PE outside of this forum, I don’t come here for it also. I come here for new ideas, techniques, etc.

I’m not pissed at you man. Any question - as long as it’s asked in sincerity - is a valid question.

There are risks with PE. Some guys gain quickly, some slowly, and apparently some not at all.

I just get pissed at some (such as 1 in another forum) who comes out and flatly states that we’re all full of shit, liars, etc. (I’m not saying that this is what you’ve done). But that’s the only thing that pisses me off.

It’s the same with chiropractors. I have friends who swear by them, and each of them was told my a “regular” doctor that they needed back surgery. They did an immediate “Hell no,” and walked out - against the doctor’s advice (who warned them about chiropractors). Not everyone I know who’s gone to chiropractors got 100% relief, but everyone I know who had back surgery (about 8 people) said the surgery worsened their problems.

Like I said, there’s knowledge out on the perimeter (some dismiss it as marginal or worse), but it can often deliver. I believe that NPE is one of those ideologies - definitely not accepted by mainstream, but it keeps delivering. And aren’t you suprised that luvdadus (a physician) performs PE despite all of those “warnings” of impending doom & catastrophe?

But I would urge you to not stop posting.

Cya,

I am not quite sure of what you are getting at with your posts, but there appears to be some confusion.

>If this IS what is happening then I want no part of it. You are talking about radically destroying the smooth muscle to get gains. I am assuming this will infuriate the senior members here but if you search the web, youll come up with the same answer. Instead of just listening to one source, educate yourself.<

I have no idea what the above means. Teh smooth muscle lining the interior of the CCs, CS is muscle, the material of the tunica is collagenous. They are both protein, but completely different materials. I have never heard of anyone destroying their smooth muscle to get gains. In fact, the muscle, and other soft tissues of the penis are not the limiting factor to gains. The limiting factor is the tougher collagenous tissues, the ligs and tunica.

>I would doubt that an increase in collagen has made you have gains. It isnt a fact that collagen is responsible for gains. In fact, I am almost sure that it isnt what is causing it.

Show me proof that collagen build up is responsible. I can show you what happens when there is too much collagen. This should be based on scientific facts and not speculation.<

You are correct. In fact, the increase in collagen puts a damper on gains. As the collagenous tissues become naturally thicker, they become tougher to stress.

The increase in density and size of collagenous tissues under stress is a normal bodily function. Under normal circumstances, outside of a tear, it is not scar tissue, but normal tissue. It happens with weight training, and many other heavy exercises. With PE, it just makes things tougher as time goes on.

Bigger

Wow, a lot of talk about scientific aspects of PE. But no “real” evidence (that is, peer-reviewed studies). I’ve searched a little and come up with a few that has relevance to PE. Here goes:

Penile elongation and thickening—a myth? Is there a cosmetic or medical indication?

Austoni E, Guarneri A, Gatti G. - Andrologia. 1999;31 Suppl 1:45-51

This study looked at a relatively new way of increasing penile size. The authors conclude that for length, the dual attack of suspensory ligament surgery and stretcher device is suggested. For girth they discuss a new method which is about making an incision in the tunica albuginea and enlarging that structure with grafts. That allows for more space for the corpus cavernosa to expand into as they should after the stretch stress of the stretcher device. After a 9-month follow-up, the increase in girth was 1.1-2.1 cm. Unfortunately, the regimens of stretching were not revelead, neither when they were begun (considering the post-operative recovery process) but as with all penile enlargement surgery, the stretching is vital to success (see below).

Penile enlargement surgery.

Alter GJ. - Tech Urol. 1998 Jun;4(2):70-6

To cite the revealing text of the abstract “Penile lengthening is performed by releasing the suspensory ligament of the penis followed by use of penile weights”. Why the weights? Because without that stressor there has been no statistically significant gain in length after surgery, some even experiencing a slight reduction in size. Proof enough that just the stretching should give benefits.

Microphallus: eventual phallic size is dependent on the timing of androgen administration.

Husmann DA, Cain MP. - J Urol. 1994 Aug;152(2 Pt 2):734-9

This study can be taken with a grain of salt as it was performed on mice but they are the number one labratory animal. Any reserach you read about cancer treatments are done on mice (because of the ethical problems of human subjects).

So why am I talking about the abnormality of microphallus? We’re looking for bigger penises, right? Well, this is, in a roundabout way, a small case for the inclusion of natural aphrodisiacs and testosterone boosters in penis pills. The authors of this study conclude that pre-pubertal hormonal therapy (mainly androgens) didn’t reverse microphallus in genetically altered mice. However, post-pubertal therapy did. This means that the size was increased after adult size was achieved. Now, androgen therapy can’t reverse gene-altered states but rather had to have increased the penis tissue size by other mechanisms, most probably by increased blood flow (or so they theorize).

Topically applied testosterone and phallic growth. Its effects in male children with hypopituitarism and microphallus.

Ben-Galim E, Hillman RE, Weldon VV. - Am J Dis Child. 1980 Mar;134(3):296-8

This is an old study but as far as I know it hasn’t been refuted. Here’s the gist of things: “Application of testosterone locally for this brief period is a safe, effective, and simple means of stimulating phallic growth. Our findings suggest that topical testosterone causes penile growth predominantly through its systemic action.” One can question the efficiacy of oral testosterone and testosterone boosters because the resulting increase in testosterone can naturally be used by other tissues. However, the increase in excitation caused by the PE exercises should make the predominant part go towards increasing penile size and also increase blood flow which is what we try to do anyway (by hyperemiation).

Let the discussion continue.

I found this rather interesting, so I thought I would post it here:

I think we are getting confused between the MO of skeletal muscle and collagenous fibres. I know satelite cells and hyperplasia are extremely limited (if not non existant) in adult muscular-skeletal structure, but I’ve seen nothing to support this in ROM limiting structural tissues.

I haven’t researched this since I always assumed (perhaps wrongly) that cell division was a given. Is the consensus that this is not the case?

Not to ignore the fantastic dedication and results of people like Bib and DLD, there are known ‘african tribes’ (eughhh!) that have increased their size by 100’s of percent. This would not support cell growth over cell division unless the girth also increased proportionately with their length. The pictures I have seen (maybe photoshop’d?) look like long things tied in a knot. If they were in proportion, then it would not increase the ability to tie that knot.

Length gains tend to out strip girth in ‘most’ cases. Individual cells generally do not become rectangular to compensate for this, so I’ll take the cell division route unless there is compelling evidence to quash the idea.

I tend to believe cell division since the vets here notice the gains to be permanent. Cell hypertrophy would be temporary just like if a bodybuilder were to stop lifting weights - the muscles would shrink over time.

Very interesting comments, maybe more than one thing is happening,ie cell hyperplasia and elongation. If I remember correctly scar tissue is a cross hatching of collagen fibers. This means the healing does not happen in one direction like in tennis elbow where there are a bunching up of fibers infiltrated by nerve fibers, part of the healing process, this happens from repeated injury and avoidance of use. In PE elongation is in one direction so cross hatching of collagen fibers should not take place. I would also agree that over time the stressing of the non smooth muscle elements would lead to increased strength of the holding elements or the non muscle fibers just as tendons do in body builders. About the smooth muscle fibers, one physiology textbook stated smooth muscle fibers can elongate to five times its length and return to its original size. On the topic of how much elongation can happen, there are pictures of the large bowel enlarging to huge sizes over time. If we leave longer rest periods will the tissue then not adapt as fast and allow more stretch? If we stress it too much resistance will increase. Maybe this is why some gains are made with less time spent. Anyone out there done this for 10 years or more? I would like to thank all the contributors, I have learned a lot from everyone, and await further experienced advice.

Great post. New ideas to break my plateau. Thanks, men!

Great post thanks for doing the research, it explains to new PE dudes what happens or will happen.