Understanding cell growth for maximum PE gains

Thats what they tell me ;)

Ah, don’t believe everything your hear. ;)

Jelqing brings length, girth, and better penile health. But don’t tell anyone okay? ;)

Oh and BTW, really great post and theory. Daddy likey!

So then I guess this would throw aristocane’s go at it hard every day thing out the window?

But then again I read everywhere that it is better to do 1 on 1 off for clamping and then there is drilla who did 5 on 2 off. Ahhh.

I will never find the optimal schedule.

Well, thanks again for the kind feedback all, I don’t mind if you disagree with me, I don’t have all the answers. I’m just trying to approach PE as logically as possible. Not to say that you can’t gain from PE in a different way, or muscle building for that matter. My intent though, is to find a method that brings the quickest and most consistent gains possible. I have an even better understanding ( at least I think I do) after a couple things Diesel220 mentioned, so by all means, share your thoughts.

Disi: I’m not saying the muscle building program I outlined is the be-all-end all of muscle growth, however I’m quite confident it is one of the most solid programs to follow. It has been greatly helping me, where other programs have failed. There is a lot I’m not mentioning about the program because I wanted to focus on PE, for example changing up routine is incredibly important, and I have no doubt it is where you made much of your gains. The maximum lift program works because you engage maximum intensity of muscle with little downtime and recovery, meaning you can lift the same muscle 2-3 times a week, rather than just once as most people do.I may post more of the muscle building program if people are interested, but I would do so in a different thread to keep the focus on this one about PE. Congrats on 18kg of muscle growth, that is a big accomplishment.

That is interesting to note that you have gained with stretching only. I have not found this to work for me, as ModestoMan had also pointed out for himself. I can conceptualize it as possible though, if you are stretching, you are probably also stretching the smooth muscle fiber, allowing more expansion of within the cells to fill with blood, which contribute to both length and girth. I think Remek and Iguana’s theory on the tunica and smooth muscle makes a lot of sense though, and I’m kind of working off of their their theory.

MagnumXXL:I have no doubt that jelquing will give more girth than stretching, and stretching, to some extent, more length. I’m not disputing that. My article was more about why the growth occurs, and again, I have to give credit to Remek and Iguana on their smooth muscle/Tunica theory, it meshes with what I believe is what allows growth to occur. My article was more about PE’ing with proper intensity, considering why masturbation has an effect on gains and is variable based on your masturbation methods, and the importance of full recovery and how overtraining may be the culprit to many peoples unsuccessful attempts at PE( it surely was the root of all evil for me, both in the gym and PE). I also am interested in whether supplementation immediately after PE can quicken the recovery process, allowing more quantity and quality of PE sessions, resulting in faster and more noticeable gains.

Redlight: I’m just starting on this new routine because I’ve just learned about it recently. I’ve only been on it for a short period, but I’m liking it very much. Only time will tell however, I will keep you posted on the results. I posted an idea of my program above, but the quick and dirty is based off the newbie routine posted in the forums:\

I do this every other day, not 2 days on 1 day off. I need the off day after I jelq. That may change if my supplementation recovery idea ends up working. I treat it like weightlifting, if my tissue isn’t a little sore the next day, I question whether I really gave it my all, intensity speaking. Some days I’m not sore after jelquing..but most days I am.

5 minute warmwrap: I use a moist flax seed heat pad. It is awesome and beats a wash rag any day.

5-10 min Manual stretching: Will build up to longer segments or break up to multiple shorter segments when I build up to it

10-30 minutes jelq: Currently doing a 20 minute session, I find I’m comfortably sore at this point

5 minute hot wrap.

I’m also just starting to incorporate daily manual stretching on my off days from jelq, stretching seems like it needs little to no recovery because it attacks the cells differently. Keeping the tunica limber via stretching, while letting your smooth muscle to fully recover and expand from your previous jelq session should offer some great results I’m thinking. I’m definitely altering my jelq days, and stretching every day.

Finally, I’m starting to intake zinc within 30 minutes after I PE, normally right after my finishing hot wrap, since cells seem to eat up nutrients after taking damage, and zinc has been mentioned to have positive cell repairing affects. From Diesel’s link,it states that cheese and almonds are decent sources of zinc, and I personally believe are superior to taking a zinc supplement because most isolated supplements have been shown to fail miserably in their absorption within the body unless taken with another supplement/enzyme meant to break it down for absorption. Whole food naturally comes with a combination of vitamins and enzymes that will maximize the absorption rate of supplements, so if you take isolated supplements, eat some raw fruit or vegetables first or take an enzyme supplement with the supplement of choice to get the full effect. I must mention also that the cheese and almonds is also a great little protein nightcap before bed, if you are interested in gaining muscle mass from lifting. As you can see, I jelq in the evening before bedtime.

Of course, the whole reasoning on supplementation is, again, to quicken the recovery process so you can get more quantity and quality PE sessions and mitigate the dreaded ‘overtraining’.

I’ll keep you guys posted if I notice faster recovery from the zinc intake. Maybe I might be able to jelq back to back days if I notice I’m not sore…we’ll see.

I’ve got another theory to add, maybe it has already been suggested but it just popped in my mind as an epiphany. Someone suggested “Well if the penis can grow and be manipulated similar to other muscles, why do big muscles shrink over time when you stop working out, whereas the penis tends to maintain the majority of its gains through PE even if you stop PE? First, you have to understand nature’s goal to strive towards efficiency. Why, if you set a row of pendulum clocks on a wall next to one another, move the pendulums at different speeds and timings, only to find that they will all converge, on their own, to a singular frequency? Insect colonies are intricately built and operated to be efficient environments for growth. For whatever reason, without getting too spiritual, nature has a way of finding the most efficient way of doing things. This isn’t to say that nature can override inefficient systems, but inefficient systems are constantly under attack by nature’s drive to reduce waste and imbalance.

With that little primer, it should be easily seen that muscles are very inefficient. They constantly need to be fed more volume than they take up to even exist, and it is clear how fast they break down once they are not being evolved to change by outside forces. It is much more efficient to not be huge and muscular; in a way, bodybuilders are kind of an abomination to nature lol. Lets say we have a year supply of food for 10 people, and that all 10 people are 150 lb males. Now lets say 3 of them are very muscular body builders, that need to maintain a caloric intake more than double what a 150 lb male could eat. All of a sudden 3 bodybuilder males need the food of at least 6 regular males in order to maintain their current existence. That leaves only enough food for regular males, 3 of which will starve. It is not an efficient system, many more people could be supported if their wasn’t so much waste caused by a few. It is clear that nature works against muscles because they are inefficient, and the nearest sign that nature sees your muscles aren’t needed anymore (you stop working out), nature attacks the muscle as a food source like a school of hungry pirahanas.

I see muscle and fat as 2 types of energy sources, ripe for consumption of the body. Fat tends to get targeted first for energy, it is the body’s preferred energy source of choice. Excess muscle is the second choice, excess muscle is inefficient and expendable as energy. The penis however is not a storage for muscle or fat. Yes, it is tissue, but the body seems to know what tissue is used for storage, and thus expendable, and be able to differentiate other tissue that doesn’t supply a constant source of energy, and therefore no reason to consume it, ie penile tissue. Of course, all cells die over time and others take their place, it may be that we reach our limits with PE when this cycle caps out, ie just as many cells are dying as their are new cells growing, or at the very least one of the factors that inhibits the penis from getting too big beyond it’s genetic blueprint.

Just some thoughts.

I think to major extent, analogy of penile tissue growth may vary from muscle cell growth. For muscle cells, unless we stress them highly, maybe, to fatigue state or most of the times complete failure, our body will not make them bigger. While, for penile expansion we rarely need to reach such an extreme limit. For example, it is possible to increase both flaccid and erect length of a penis by simple stretching with our hand pulls without making its tissues fatigue or challenging its tensile force resistance capability. In fact it is nearly impossible by our hands to exert such a large force longitudinally. We are maybe pulling one fourth of the force that its capacity. Most of the times our hands get tired or grip gets loose. I have gained 1.75” length, I never experienced a case where I had to give up because my penis longer could take my pulls any more.

Here, I think, combine role of biology and physics force the expansion of tissues. If we stretch the tissues within their elastic limit, they will bounce back to their original length. If we stretch them beyond their elastic limit, they will no longer shrink back to their original length. The gain we get is plastic deformation of the tissue. Same rule applies to lateral direction for girth augmentation.

In muscular growth by weight training or some other way, our body feels urge the need for their growth so that they become stronger. In penile growth, I don’t think our body feel any urge to make them bigger and stronger, as we do not usually exert any forces by any PE method (maybe except hanging) to challenge their force resisting capability.

These are my ideas. Maybe they are wrong, but I have tried to unitize my logic to already known facts.

Well instead of comparing penis cell growth to muscle cell growth through bodybuilding how about comparing it to the mechanisms that tribes people stretch limbs and tongues etc as that is more analogous. Though it may not explain girth?

Simply, think of our ear-lobes. Just stretch them with your hands and then with weights 30 minutes a day for 6 months to make yourself look like an alien.

Here is my idea for girth:

Jelqing creates lateral as well as longitudinal stretches on tissues. If it is done with sufficient intensity, it should pressurize the tissues in plastic deformation state and if they are repeatedly stretched in both directions to plastic state, it is natural they should gain some permanent deformation.

I think girth gain by clamping occurs when tunica is expanded to plastic state of deformation for long period of time.

Miltonic:

Thanks for the description of your current routine, which I find very interesting and helpful. Thanks also for the patience you are taking throughout this entire thread —it is demanding and time-consuming to write in such detail and at such length. Also, you emphasize co-operation and dialogue in a way that should stand as a model of how we should go on exploring the things that interest us on this forum.

As an older member, I am especially interested in the issues you raise about over-training. Recovery rate simply isn’t the same after the years have stacked up. I am now fairly certain that over-training has prevented progress in my case, and with your observations in mind, I will now re-think things.

I think drilla was correct. I also started with clamping with 1 day off and 1 day on. Well, for me it was 1 week off after my first session, because of some uneasy tingly feeling. I did not see any gain in 3 weeks, but I was hopeful and waiting for the yielding to occur. I just had to stress penile tissues, particularly tunica, repeatedly beyond their elastic limit to attain permanent gain.

After two weeks, I also started to see my penis feel completely normal couple of hours after clamping. So I decided to do it 2days on /1 days off. Couple of weeks later I began to see gain. I have been on this for like one and half a month I gained 3/8”. I am happy.

I am now doing 3 days on/ 1 off. Maybe I will be fixed at drilla’s 5days on/2 days off routine in future.

Although I believe you are thinking in the right direction and a program based on this would be effective, I must point out that during growth of muscles there is hardly any increase in muscle cells. It’s mostly the individual muscle cells getting larger and this is because of an increase of muscle filaments. These are structures that produce muscle contraction and obviously are not present in other types of cells.

Miltonic:

Have you come across any research concerning optimal ascorbate supplementation for new tissue synthesis.

I am not entirely convinced of this idea, as scientific or Muscular-Development-based as it may be, of exercising before a recovery period being futile. My regular sporting activities, which I tend to break up into 2 or 3 sessions per day, lead to significant and rapid muscular growth. Furthermore, this is augmented, not diminished, by a workout at a gym in the evenings.

Anyway, I am asking if anybody else has tried breaking up their PE workouts over their day in order to minimise exhaustion as well as to benefit from meals which aid in muscle-regeneration during recovery periods. Please accept apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere, this is a particularly inspiring thread and I did not wish to get distracted!

It is fun to imagine that a long PE session might commensurately increase sexual stamina, however the touch of a woman is infinitely more soft and sensual than a PE workout, so I am not tripping about breaking up workouts from that perspective. Yet from personal experience I have noticed that increased pressure DOES lead to increased girth gains. Just know your schlong’s limits and don’t hurt it. You’re working together on this =)

To throw a reverse angle on the whole agenda, we all know that lifting at a gym will make anybody more buff. A better routine will lead to better gains. But are we under the impression that doing leg and back yoga exercises will make us.. Taller? The penis, constituted primarily of muscular cells, seems logical to be able to be manipulated and stretched, like miltonic24’s suggestion. But do stretched muscles actually get longer, or are they just more.. Bendy? Like if I do heaps of biceps curls and stretch pre and post every session, my biceps aren’t going to start growing down the inner bend of my elbows.

If you haven’t deduced, I am having little results with erect gains, although flaccid gains have been over an inch. This is petty in comparison with what is becoming more than a handful in girth. Does this have something with the long and short twitch fibres? And a side-note for those of you who wish they were on the other side of that fence, I used to be lanky but after pushing hard to gain mass as I needed for my sport, I think my body kind of changed it’s composition or metabolism to help me out. Mind over matter hahaha.

Again please accept apologies if I have repeated content. I only have time to research PE at night and I’m kinda tired so I’m gonna re-read the whole thread. I am excited to find a thread I can relate to.

Peace

The penis is constituted of smooth muscle and connective tissue. Smooth muscle has not ‘fast and slow fibers’ that I know. What limits the size of your penis is tunica albuginea, which is similar to tendon. TA is so small in size that there isn’t any need of more proteins to make it grow.