Understanding cell growth for maximum PE gains

I want to share my view point based on what I’ve read and studied, and to some degree what I have seen personally about stimulating cell growth. I want to provide this information in the hopes that it will help eventually resolve the ‘masturbation hinders gains’ debate once and for all, and why people on both sides of the fence are partly wrong and partly right. I tackle other ideas regarding stretchings’ role, and if supplementation could aid in faster recovery of penile tissue. I also want to stimulate discussion and see if I can learn anything from the ‘thinkers’ on this board to maybe gaining some more scientific understanding of PE. If this has been mentioned before, I apologize in advance. I also want to say that this article is a theory of mine based on quite a bit of reading from various muscle building articles, cell growth, etc. Do not read it as scientific fact, but instead thoughts of mine based on scientific articles. Without further ado…

I’ve become much more committed to building muscle and have looked into the science of what it takes to build muscle effectively. I know that muscle tissue is different than penile tissue, but I postulate the fundamentals still apply:

“New cell growth occurs, whether penile or muscle cells, when the cells experience trauma under a specific intensity. This intensity must be strong enough that it sparks the reason for growth, but not so traumatic that the damage done is not fully recoverable.”

When you go to the gym and your goal is to build muscle, you need to understand very specific principles in order to succeed, otherwise you will not see great gains, and in some cases, no gain at all. In order to build new muscle quickly and consistently with minimal plateau, you need to find the correct intensity at which to lift. I believe PE has a specific intensity as well, albeit the type of intensity would be different than muscle since it is a different type of tissue with different functionality. But what they do share in similarity is that they must be challenged in new and greater ways in order to keep the growth response going and not reaching a plateau.

Cells will NOT grow if the intensity does not increase. If you maintain the same intensity, the body will become used to the same level of trauma and will not be motivated to adapt. Intensity can be measured as “Time under tension”. Muscle growth requires a type of intensity that is very high weight, under a moderate amount of time, say a muscle group exercise set between 40-70 seconds. It is that specific, if you alter that formula, you alter the effectiveness of how well you will stimulate new muscle growth. PE intensity would have a different formula, but still measurable. There are a lot of theories out there, but lets just say it is low to moderate weight over a long period of time, say 30 minutes. The point is that measuring the intensity of the tissue you are trying to grow, and constantly working to increase intensity for each new workout as your tissue grows and becomes accustomed to, is vital.

A critical muscle building rule that many gym goers do not realize, including myself for a long time, is that once peak intensity has been reached, any further work done on the muscle is wasted energy. I used to be in the camp that more sets = more muscle, but I now know that is false. The reasoning behind this is that it is the intensity, the measurable “time under tension” that your cells are subjected to within a small window of time, that create the growth response. Basically, all it takes is one set per muscle group to accomplish this. Any sets after this “balls to the wall, all-out” set are meaningless, if your goal is muscle growth. The goal of that one set is to recruit every single muscle fiber of the muscle you intend to grow, and traumatize it completely. Of course, it would be completely foolish to do this set without warming up first. After all, you know cold rubber bands break, but warm rubber bands can stretch much farther. That is why you start with your warm-up set (warm-up wrap for PE), stack the weight higher on the 2nd set to prepare for the all-out set (build to increase intensity in PE), and the 3rd set you load up, and push yourself to the limit, heaviest weight you can do to complete exhaustion (PE doesn’t end so intense since it’s a different fiber, and I don’t want you guys injuring your penis, but you do want to end with stronger strokes, and should feel like your penis is tired). If you bother to do another set after this all-out set, you will already be fatigued, and you will not be able to match it in intensity. All it will accomplish is breaking down your muscle fiber even more and maybe give you a a little muscular endurance, but because the intensity is less will do nothing to stimulate new muscle growth. If you are trying to build muscle, growth is what your are after anyway, not endurance. Your all out set already accomplished that spark for growth, any sets afterwards will do nothing for your growth.

Here is where it all ties together, and why I think people are confusing masturbation with hindering gains. When your cells break down, they need a recovery period. When it comes to muscle growth, less is more. You don’t work out your muscles when you are sore do you? Muscle fibers take time to build, if you are sore, it means the rebuilding is not complete. If you lift a muscle group that is already sore, you are drastically reducing your growth potential, because you are breaking down muscle before it has a chance to rebuild bigger and stronger. If you break muscle down before it gets bigger and stronger, then you will not have bigger and stronger muscles to push your intensity even further than your last workout, which means you get no gains. Remember, intensity must always increase within a few workouts, or your cells will NOT grow. Of course there is a 3rd variable for increasing growth when you plateau, and that is inducing new unaccustomed stress through different range of motion, but intensity is still required. That means the time, or the tension, must be increased, thats what increasing intensity means. I believe your penile cells work the same way, why wouldn’t they? They are cells after all. When your penis is sore, it is still in the recovery phase. If you do a PE workout and your penis is still sore, then you are breaking down the penis tissue even more, causing shrinkage or turtling. A clear sign that you need to stop, let it fully recover before doing any PE or masturbation for that matter. When you masturbate, it is much less intensity, but don’t kid yourself, it’s still breaking down the tissue, depending on the length of your masturbation session, and the tension. Again, the intensity.

Think of masturbation like lifting light weights, your still breaking down tissue but will gain no mass. You’ll still tear your muscle tissue up with light weights, but you have to lift for a longer period of time. And unfortunately light tension under long period of time is not the formula for new muscle growth. Neither is that the case with PE. If it were, masturbation would build your dick. Unfortunately it takes more intensity than masturbation to cause your dick to grow. When you lift light weights, you will develop a completely different type of muscle fiber called “slow-twitch”. It is not meant to accumulate in massive amounts of cells because it is an endurance fiber. Endurance fiber is all about expending energy over long periods of time. Having a ton of muscle means packing a lot of weight, completely counterproductive to the role of endurance fiber, hence you will not bulk up when lifting light weight. This is why your penis will not grow by masturbation, you are not applying enough intensity to the penis by masturbation alone, and remember, only proper intensity sparks muscle growth, and penis growth for that matter. When you masturbate though, you are still breaking down tissue. This means your recovery period will be longer. This means you need more rest before PE’ing again. You should only PE when your cells are FULLY RECOVERED, because only then will your cells be revived enough to be pushed to a new level of intensity required to grow. This rule is unquestionable for muscle building, I believe penis cells adhere to it as well. This is the reason why masturbation will, to some degree hinder gains, because you are essentially breaking down your tissue, which means your recovery time will be lengthened before the optimal time is available once again to start your next PE session. This is completely variable based on the intensity of your masturbation session. Very little recovery is necessary if you are jerking off for 10 minutes. But if you have a 2 hour wank session, prepare for a long recovery, and don’t expect to make gains if you start up your PE session the next morning and are still sore from your wank marathon the night before. You need complete recovery before exercising in order to outdo your previous exercises intensity. Will a tired and sore dick be able to beat the previous exercises intensity? No, only a fully recovered dick ready to put in a serious session will accomplish this critical goal. That being said, masturbation will not undo the growth response of your PE workout, because the growth response is ONLY tied to obtaining the correct intensity from your PE workout. All Masturbation will do is lengthen the recovery period necessary between workouts. So you see…both sides of the fence are in essence, right. Where people get confused is that they don’t allow enough recovery period and are starting their next PE session the next day, when they aren’t fully recovered. If you didn’t masturbate for 30 minutes after last nights PE workout, would you not be sore? Maybe, but if you are sore, just take a little more time to recover until fully healed, then hit the next PE session with vigor. You are only backtracking when breaking down tissue that hasn’t fully healed.

As I mentioned above, I’m not throwing the stretching exercises into this thought process because stretching attacks the cells differently, in that it is not forcing blood into the penis, which is critical for penile growth(ie jelq etc). However, I do believe stretching is vital for optimal penis growth, but that you really won’t have growth unless you are incorporating exercises that force blood into the penis. Think of stretching as an amplifier to your PE routine, but on it’s own it won’t do much. Stretching will increase your muscle growth response by maximizing range of motion of cells, and creating more surface area for new cell growth to occur. If you stretch your arms before doing bicep curls, then lift with full range of motion, you are recruiting maximal surface area of fibers to undergo the stress, which mean maximal muscle growth. If you cut out stretching, you’ll still grow muscle, just not as much. Yes, you can get huge by not stretching at all, but science has shown that stretching will increase cell growth at a faster rate when weightlifting. I believe this applies to PE as well. If you stretch your penis in all directions for a decent amount of time before jelqing, you are maximizing the cell surface area to be engaged in the exercise, promoting more cells to be involved in the exercise, which promotes greater growth.

Finally, I’d like to consider supplementation to aid in the quick recovery of depleted penile tissue. For the successful weightlifters out there, you all know that a protein shake immediately after a workout is vital for quick cell recovery. The sugars taxi the nutrients to the destroyed tissue for immediate rebuilding. Time is important, if you do not intake nutrients within a max of 2 hours after experiencing muscular trauma, the body will miss it’s effective window of opportunity to heal the damaged tissue in optimal fashion. Does this mean you miss your opportunity to grow? No, but you do considerably lengthen the window of recovery, which means you get less workouts in, which mean slower growth. You are also convincing your body that it is not in an optimal nutrient-rich environment for growth, and will limit it’s ability to grow. Animals tend to grow within the limits of the resources around them, your body will not grow if you aren’t constantly feeding it too. That said, I wonder if there are nutrients that are specific to penile tissue, and penile health in general? You have food that is good for the heart, eyes, liver, skin, muscles,etc…why not the penis? Wouldn’t it make sense to eat something good for penile tissues right after a PE session? It sure makes a lot of sense to me! I think this could be an idea that would become a big factor in quick recovery and PE gains in general. It is critical in muscle building, why not PE? Someone should look into this stat! If I find out anything, rest assured I’ll start intaking nutrients after a PE session and evaluating my recovery period.

Anyway, just some thoughts, I’d like to know what you guys think and if you see flaws, or things that appear accurate and can build on for further understanding. I also understand that I’m going to have people saying you can’t compare the penis with muscles, but they are all cells, and cells grow and operate under similar guidelines, so hopefully people can provide scientific evidence if they intend to refute it. To conclude, I want to thank Thunders for providing the best forum on the net for the gathering of positive minds IMHO.

-miltonic

I would tend to agree with that philosohy since when I first started, I only used the newbie routine and couple of months after, when I saw good gains, I decided to change routne, even if I were still gaining (stupid). Now I found myself couple years after and I didnt gain a lot more, maybe a bit of girth with clamping but still …

I should stick with the newbie routine, and increase intensity like you said, not volume like clamping number of sets, time, jelqing time etc.

One thing that is different between Bodybuilding muscles and PE is that if you stop BB and eating you lose your muscles gains. However, if you stop eating will you loose your PE gains? If you stop PE do you loose all your gains? I don’t think people do.

So, maybe a post-workout PE shake isn’t necessary.

I’m not stating a fact, more so asking. As I’d be keen to know if it’s worth downing a power shake and some vits post PE or pointless?

On a side note I used to do 30-60mins PE 5-7 days a week and masturbate 20-50 hours a week for about 2 years and never got any gains.

Miltonic,

Thank you so much for your excellent and clear presentation. As much as I may suffer under the “penis is not a muscle” way of thinking, I have to admit that I find may aspects of your arguments to be persuasive.

What you’re saying also mirrors my personal experience with PE. “Stretching is an amplifier.” YES! I have never gained from stretching or hanging alone, despite having tried for months (a fact that makes me feel like a fool in hindsight). Only jelqing in combination with stretching has yielded results. Possibly jelqing alone would have been sufficient, but I never tried that.

I believe I can identify specific PE workouts that have been responsible for my growth. Fantastic and intense sessions of jelqing and squeezing that were quickly followed by easily measured gains.

Have you put your thinking into practice with your own PE regimen? What kind of results have you seen?

Great post Miltonic. :up:

Miltonic,

You hit the ballpark of PE. One of the most compreensive and true threads of this Forum.
Congratulations.

Miltonic,

Do you or any one elsehave any opinion on the optimum amount of recovery time between pe workouts?

I’m 51 and have lifted weights most of my life. I have found that for me, at my age, I have optimized my workout to two times per week. One workout is for upper body, one for lower body. The exercises are short in duration and intense. I have found that 6-7 days recovery is best for me. When I was younger, it was more like 3-4 days.

Under that line of thought, maybe my PE workouts should be intense but less frequent to allow for growth and recovery, less being more. Maybe I (and others) have been my own worst enemy in working it out too frequently.

Dan

Although I see were you are coming from with the Mike Mentzer type training for muscles(HITo rHDT). I don’t subscribe to this way of training and have gain muscle and every personal training program I have read disagrees with this theory of this training protocol.They will all tell you that muscle growth goes in cycles and to arrange training in that way.No one type of training should be done for more than 12 weeks

I think you are misinterpreting the word growth when it comes to muscle and how growth relates to the penis.

When your refer to muscle growth you should know very little in the way of new muscle fibers are created by working out. This type of muscle building is call hyperplasia when the body creates more actual muscle fibers. This happens in a very small amount in in fibrous muscle in body and would be more likened to penis growth where new tissue is made by cells breaking down and and new cells being grown to fill in the gaps which I think is called mitosis.

What one should think of when growth is explained in muscle building is hypertrophy this is the damaging of muscle fibers that are already present to increase there size or strength.

The best way to think of this is the balloon example muscle fibers will expand when worked out with enough stress. When you blow up a balloon the first time the balloon is hard to blow up at first but the more you blow it up the essayer it gets. Muscle fibers work in the same way.It is first hard to gain size after you beginner gains do to the shock of working out for the fist time. This can be liken to newbie gains in PE but very different process are going on in muscle mass, it is not the building of new muscle fibers but it’s expansion.

You also said it was a fact that one set is all you need pre body part to to have total fiber recruitment this I believe is not true. One reason is that you have 2 types of muscle fibers type one and two and in those types you have 2 sub sets of fibers.one set will not stimulate them all to cause total muscular failure need for growth if this was the case we would all train like power lifters.

For example lets say you did a straight bar inclined bench press in the manner you described you will never get complete stimulation of all fibers because the chest muscle has an upper and lower part to keep it really simple there is much more to the chest then that so although you might work the whole chest one part of the chest will be worked out much more then the rest of the chest I.e. The upper part.

I think the penis is more likened to the heart which is soft muscle tissue which by the way can grow larger and once it has grown never shrinks back to it old size from what I know.If we all had hyperplasia happening when every we gained muscle we would never have to go back to the gym to keep what new muscle mass we have gained this is not the case.stop going to the gym muscle shrinks to it original size or close to it.

The penis has some features of contractile muscle, it has the tunic. Muscle fibers have facial tissue this facial tissue can hinder muscle growth as the tunic does with the penis they are pretty much made form the same stuff.

I also think trying to liken muscle growth to the penis is wrong because there are to many factors that go it to gaining muscle that don’t seem to have any real barring on penis growth although diet could help as supplements may also increase cell growth. Unless you are talking about stick to your workout and diet no matter what. Like body types ecto ,meso,endo diet, metabolism hormones if you take them or if you don’t and age can also be a factor a 21 year old person is going to have faster recovery then say a 50 year old.

As for rest times for PE every couple of days like muscles I don’t see why it would be need (this is not a fact) unless you are getting negative PI response.They don’t take a guys leg out of a traction device to make his leg longer to give it a rest they leave it in there and increase the length over long periods of time to let the cells grow.

Increasing intensity is also not the same as with fibrous muscle we increase intensity in weight so that a person who lifted 100lbs one day might lift 400 lbs. This kind of increase for the penis might have an opposite reaction especially if rest day were applied. The body may increase the strength of the tunica tendons and ligaments as a rebound effect to cope with the stress during the rest periods making it harder to gain size.

Remember the body does not like out side stress. Muscles only grow stronger to handle the work load you are putting on them the body likes to keep balance so getting big is a side effect of the body trying to cope with outside stressors.

You don’t want your penis to become stronger to make it harder for you to increase size. Muscle fibers do not grow like soft muscle tissue.We are trying to cause actual new cell growth, new tissue to be formed and to lengthen tendons ligaments and weaken the tunica.

I am not trying to put you down in any way I just didn’t fit in to everything I know about bodybuilding and what I have read on hear about the penis and what we are trying to do to increase it’s size.

I appreciate the kind words, and feedback as well. I do want to stress that this is my own understanding from my own experimentation, it’s not fact yet until proven or disproven.

Modesto man: I’ve experienced the same thing myself, stretching alone has given me no gains, jelqing alone gave me some gains, but stretching & jelqing is giving me consistent gains. I must mention that I’ve even recently altered my jelqing style to avoid injury in my glans that I’ve been prone to. Funny, after all these years with Thunders, I’ve read the newbie routine a number of months ago and was still not jelqing right lol. Now I apply pressure mostly to the sides of my penis and not the top, which has FINALLY solved the reason for all my glans injuries. I must of glazed over that little gem of advice, wish I read it more clearly years ago, I’d be so much farther along do to injury avoidance. As far as whether my approach works for PE, it is too soon for me to tell, I’ve just recently started my training based on this thought, and I’ve had the best response in growth that I’ve ever had. Over the last month I’ve had 3/8” in length and a 1/4” in girth. It may not sound like much, but my penis is as big as it’s ever been. I just got back into PE after a 6 month hiatus due to injury and just taking a break from it for awhile. During that time I got into weightlifting much more aggressively than I have in the past after not seeing much progress in the gym for many years, and I’ve been applying the muscle building theory above with success. It has helped me break my plateaus in the gym, and I started thinking about applying it similarly to PE as well. So at this point I’m going to say it is too soon to tell, but initial results have been very promising.

Dan Manky: I really believe that overtraining is probably the biggest reason why we don’t accomplish our goals in the gym as well as in PE. There are some good posts here on Thunders that state what Positive Indicators your body will tell you that growth is occurring, and Negative indicators that you’ve overtrained. I’ve become much more aware of how my body is feeling. If I’m really tired, or the muscles I want to train are sore, I will not go to the gym. Same with PE, if my penis doesn’t feel good, ie my erection quality is lagging from recent usage, or its tender, I give it more rest. This means not masturbating too if I’m sore. That being said, it is important to do what you can to quicken the recovery process, otherwise your sessions will be done too sporadically and you will not have the optimal consistency needed to see fast gains. Consider shortening your workouts but increasing the tension. Hot wrap before and after, it prevents injury and helps bring blood flow to the penis, meaning quicker recovery. Get a good night of sleep so you penis can recover faster. All these things will help lower your down time so you can jump into the next work out sooner and fully recovered.

Diesel220: Thanks for the feedback, there are a lot of things you say that I’ve read about too and agree with. One of my fears when writing the above article was simplifying the weightlifting muscle growth formula, my goal was just to show that intensity is critical for muscle growth, and finding that specific intensity for PE will ultimately decide how successful your PE gains will be. Just for clarity, The all-out set I was describing is actually performed as a high weight set, designed to keep the muscle group under tension for 40-70 seconds. It is actually a crash-set, broken up into 3 minisets, spread out between 40-70 seconds, lifting to failure. There is minimal rest between the 3 mini sets in order to keep the muscle in that engaged state for 40-70 seconds. I’ve been making great gains from it where nothing else seemed to get me beyond my previous plateaus, so I may be biased towards it. I also don’t believe it is the be-all end all of muscle building, because you must also work on muscular endurance to help increase your intensity as well. I just didn’t want to go to deep into muscle building theory since my goal was to focus more on PE. But I’m open for other thoughts on muscle growth. I also agree with you that no one routine should be stuck with, and it is vital to mix it up, which I do. I simplified it down to the crash set routine because I have found it delivers the greatest growth, but I cycle it to keep my body under different types of tension. I understand your chest workout example and understand it completely and agree with you.

Regarding muscle fibers, yes you are correct there are 2 types, and subtypes in each. You will develop a specific type of muscle fiber based on the type of training you do. Long distance runners develop more ‘slow twitch’ muscle fiber, great for endurance needs. But sprinters build ‘fast twitch’ muscle fibers for burst response, and are much more muscular. The fast twitch muscle fiber should be the focus if your goal is to build more mass. It requires high intensity training, high tension under short period of time. I’m trying to apply this thought to PE, we want to build mass on our penis, what intensity is required to develop the muscle fibers that attirbute to mass? In my mind, I visualize my penis would want to grow to adjust to intense forces trying to pull it apart or break it down. More fibers would be recruited to help fortify the structure(penis) from being damaged by the forces being inflicted upon it. For mass building, muscular endurance is important because the muscle must have the ability to lift high weight for a moderate period of time. If you could only lift high weight for a short period of time, then you’d be training as a powerlifter, not a body builder. Powerlifters can lift great amounts of weight for their size, but many real strong dudes in the gym just don’t look big. It’s because they have become accustomed to lifting heavy weight, but under short periods of time 15-30 sec. Mass requires being able to lift heavy under a moderate period of time, 40-70 seconds. The only way you can do that is if you incorporate some muscular endurance training in your routine. I’m trying to figure out if that same type of routine could somehow be applied to PE.

I’ve also thought about the idea such as the leg traction device you mentioned, although I think that would be more akin to stretching in PE, not jelqing. It appears you can hang all day long, and just like stretching your muscles, the more the better. Not so with muscle breakdown, or similarly jelqing. You NEED to rest, and I believe you should wait for full recovery before breaking down the tissue again via jelqing or weightlifting. As far as stretching though, the more the better IMO.

You hit an interesting point Diesel in that you say the Tunica may become strengthened on your rest days and keep the smooth muscle tissue from being able to expand. This leads me to think that stretching may play a more vital role in order to keep the tunica limber, and not being able to solidify, which would allow the smooth muscle expansion promoted through jelqing to grow more and not be contained as much by a more limber tunica….What do you think? Damn…this really seems to make sense. Perhaps stretching should be done most days, but limit jelqing sessions until full recovery. After all, at least for me, my penis gets mostly sore from forcing blood into it via jelquing, not as much stretching. At least it’s a different type of sore. Thanks Diesel, I think this could be accurate for understanding growth, and it seems to fit in line with another theory I read on this board by Iguana and another guy, sorry for not giving proper credit.

No worries Diesel, I didn’t think you were trying to put me down, we are here to explain ideas and I appreciate your views. I think it’s all starting to make sense…

Miltonic24 I know see what you were saying about 40 to 70 seconds per set this would be in the rep range of 8 to 12 rep.I miss understood what you were trying to say.

We were talking about the same thing just in a different way. I do agree totally with the after pe shake with a multi vitamins and minarel might be a great idea. The protein would allow the for all the building blocks to be there in the blood stream to create new tissue. We might be missing this part of PE we are so worried about the workout we forget to give the body what it needs to build new cells. I was thinking that the multi vitamin and mineral that has RNA DNA would be great to take 3 times per day, these to allow cells to replicate.

What do you think?

I also have read Iguana’s and remeck thread and agree with it.I just started clamping again I had tryed it be for and the wife said what ever I was doing was working but I went to crazy with it and started getting bruising at the base and bleed from the tip once and swar it off but I am going to take it slow and follow the guide lines of safe clamping that are listed on here thank god for thundersplace.I’m home most of the time so I am trying a couple different theory’s here that made sense to me pound per minute theory, TGC, and one that I have read that deals with bodybuilding from the book building the perfect beast taking gh 2 ius 3 times per day to simulate how it was during puberty.

What are the key vits and minerals etc for new cell growth?

I’m sure Zinc is one.

Any others?

You do make sense with resting of smooth tissue of the penis since that is most likely were actual cell growth would happen and it could be over worked. I wonder if that would be as subjective person to person as with working out is from one person to the next but there has to be a general rule to go bye like never clamp and jelq 3 days in a row(that was just an example) I with there were some studies on how long it takes to increase smooth muscle tissue.

Zinc is for healthy test production I am out of here for now the wife want sushi.

I know this man and it has a lot of other benefits and I’m pretty sure I read generation of new cells was one of them.

What else for new cells?

I used to find it a bit precious that Thunder and some of the moderators got continually pissed-off over the grammar, spelling and punctuation in some of the posts; but fuck me, they’re right: Learn to punctuate your sentences - you make some interesting arguments but they are very hard to follow due to your sloppy writing skills.