Why is average too small?

Para,
I’m not sure I’d agree with that. An 8 x 6 might be too much for a quickie with some women, but how much is actually “a lot of foreplay and/or extra lube”? Most women would get pretty wet looking at such an organ, and even wetter sucking it. It’s not like most women would need 45-60 min prep time to get it in. And what women in the world want 3-minute sex?

I honestly think there’s some validity to what Modesto man said (sans ice age caveat). I think that a small dicker keeps most men in check (I know there are exceptions - i.e., big-dicked shy men and little-dicked whores), but for the most part, most men would be quite embarrassed to walk throughout their day naked. And that big-dicked guy I went to school with did nothing with his life. He was not a worker bee, but spent all of his vitality spewing his seed everywhere. Never held a job, started a family or took care of anybody but himself. I think a lot more guys would be like him if they were packing 10 (NBP) x 6.25.

The idea of the “fittest” organism in an environment is somewhat misleading. There’s really no such thing as “fittest,’ at least not in the sense of the organism being “more evolved” (a ridiculous concept, purely the result of ignorant folks trying to make sense out of a complex science). There is a great deal of room for a man’s penis, as far as reproducing goes, and it really has little to do with our ability to reproduce—that size, that is. A two inch penis can make a baby; a ten inch penis can make a baby. In a nutshell, that’s the purpose of a penis: to inject man-seed into a woman.

The “fittest” organism—or human—in one particular environment might be quite weak and prone to such horrible things as, oh, an early death in another environment. Our penises don’t guide how bodies evolved: the ability for our ancestor’s bodies to survive in an environment to reproduce children who could also grow up and reproduce is the greater factor.

And, obviously, the size of a man’s penis is not the sole contributor to whether or not a man gets to bed a woman, or women. Social status, whether it be today or ten thousand years ago (in which time early humans lived in small communities, most likely with a social leader, who undoubtedly had more booty than your average dog), was a far more important element than how high the flag flies.

It may be said that one of the hallmarks of evolution is the idea of survival of the fittest, but never underestimate the power of a scientifically-ignorant group of people to misunderstand a short phrase made up of two words. Some may not like them in politics (where I do believe they matter), but there’s no question that nuances are incredibly difference in understanding subtle, but significant differences in scientific terms and phrases, and general colloquialisms. Sometimes it’s necessary to split a hair, for one side of the hair may be black, yet the other is white.

Wad,

I misspoke by mentioning what is "desirable" for females.

My point was supposed to be that virtually all sex in the animal world involves no preparation at all: the male just goes over to a willing (or unwilling) female and fucks her till he ejaculates. Chimps are pretty much like this (though bonobos are more "human" in their sex practices), and humans and chimps share a last common ancestor. Under these kinds of sex conditions, I suspect that an 8x6 dick would feel like rape to most female humans, and a lot of them might struggle and successfully escape once mating has begun.

The question is how long ago in humans’ evolutionary history complex sociality (including complex sexual rituals such as foreplay), enabled by complex language-equipped brains, began to appear. Much of the modern human body, including, perhaps, the huge (by ape standards) penis size, probably evolved long before this point.

The weakness in my "theory" is that it makes it hard to explain why humans ever evolved a larger penis than other primates. Many stories of this adaptation hinge on the role of female orgasm in trapping sperm, etc. And in an earlier post I supported the idea that large penises may have been due to women’s choices in selecting mates.

So obviously I’m just throwing (inconsistent) shit out there. Who knows, maybe humans’ strange penis size is just a spandrel , anyway. It’s fun to tell "just so" stories though, isn’t it?

There’s a book I’m ordering now, Why Is Sex Fun?: The Evolution of Human Sexuality, by Jared Diamond. One of the comments I read about the book is he explains, get this: Why the human penis so unnecessarily large.

So when I get the book, I’ll post what he says.

Opinions change;

(eg) In Roman times, not that long ago compared to human evolution, it was thought laughable to have a large penis.

Definitely not so. There were many bawdy Roman writers from the Classical Period (i.e., c. 200 BC - 200 AD) - such as Ovid & Pervigilius Veneris (what a name!). There were many others (who’s names escape me, but I read excerpts from them in a salty Latin class). But it was a common story that when a well hung man would enter the Roman baths he would often get a round of applause. Another story was of a very wealthy Senator who had customized mirrors installed in his bedroom which would greatly magnify the size of his penis so he could look into the mirror and see a horse-like appendage assaulting his sexual partner.

Big cocks have been venerated since time immemorial in the form of totem poles, fertility idols, even the cod pieces of the most primitive tribes are ridiculously oversized. The only place that penis size was ever de-emphasized was in Classical sculpting, where some of the greatest masterpieces depict about a 1” flaccid.

I’m 18,my new girlfriend said “your penis is so small” but when we had sex she said it hurt a bit,I guest the porno stars cocks she used to seeing made her say that.I’m a little above average.And does a person’s height an weight have anything to do with penis size?Because my friend Keeps making fun of me in front of girls.He’s 6’3 200lbs, I’m 5’10 179lb of muscle.

The average female breast size (B or C cup), and waist-hip ratio (less than 0.8 if fat levels are low average), are the 2 core sexual things about a woman’s body, and they are not too far off from ideal. The penis, being the number one physical feature to women, can’t be so small on average that 98% of men don’t measure up as ideal.

The average body weight for men is somewhere around 170lbs. The average ideal body weight is around 170lbs.
The average height for caucasian men is around 5’9.5”. The average ideal height is 6’ ie. 20+% of caucasian men
The average penis length is 6” non-bone pressed. The average ideal length is 8” nbp ie. 2% of men?

2 polls totalling over 4000 women with an average age of around 19 say the average ideal penis length is 6.5”-6.7”.

Reasons why we will insist that 8” is the average woman’s ideal?
People tend to place the same or more importance on small, yet impactful, amounts of evidence (eg. conversations with women) as large amounts of evidence (eg. anonymous surveys).
We’ve been primed to think 8” is best by watching porn, where women are enjoying huge penises
Little contradictary evidence since this is a PE forum, and many of us watch porn
Our libidos. BE ATTRACTIVE
People base their beliefs on emotion and not rationalization, which means any contradictory evidence will be discredited.

The reason why some men have large penises is simply to encourage female promiscuity, when looking for a bigger one, since larger penises result in more pleasure. Female promiscuity, in turn, encourages better gene diversification and healthier babies. Monkeys work the same way. Possibly men in modern society would have bigger dicks on average if marriage was not invented.

The “evolution vs dick size” has to be one of the most discussed topics here, I see it pop up every couple months

There’s another thread going on about this recently here.

If only the guys with smaller penis’ knew about PE back then. LOL

That’s a joke, right?

Don’t know if larger necessarily equals better. The majority of women really don’t care. Penis size is low on their list of priorities.

The average is what it is. It’s not right or wrong. It’s what works. The average size penis has put over 5 billion people on this planet.

Actually 1 billion of those were from a larger penis that she fucked, and then told her man it was his. j/k

Redwood,
I don’t think what you said is implausible.
From the point of view that it’s good to incorporate more diverse genes (which it is apparently) this totally makes sense.
a) She has a provider.
b) She is incorporating more diverse genes by “promiscuity”.

Now if men had an 8”+ dick on average there simply wouldn’t be enough providers to hatch the offspring, thus not necessarily a good thing.
Diversity is king when it comes to evolution (and thus adapting to everchanging environments).

It may not be PC to say this and it is not for promiscuity for either part in a relationship, but it is an explanation that makes more sense than the “women don’t care about penis size at all” theory ;)

Ys

Not had time to read all this, but my opinion is that there is no need for humans to have bigger dicks. We don’t evolve to be perfect for enjoyment, our penises are the neccessary length to reproduce - thats all we evolve for.

I wonder what Charles Darwin would have said about this? :swimmer: