More proof that long periods of hanging may be beneficial?

hobby,

Really good stuff. Nice research.

>Hobby’s note: I’ve read several places that the penile ligs have characteristics similar to spinal column ligs. For PE purposes, we may be dealing with that “different pattern of the elastic modulus.” Anyone have info about how these ligs differ<

I have read that some of the collagenous tissues of the penis have slightly more elastin than say, the tissues of joints, etc.. For many guys (growers), they have a higher amount of elastin in the shaft which leads to a greater degree or percentage of retraction.

The picture I have developed of the mechanics of this additional elastin is that it gives tremendously, to where it almost never a limiting factor in gains. IOW, it gives until the stress is almost wholely on the tougher collagenous fibers. But, it does deform to an extent, becoming like an overstretched rubber band. Larger, longer fibers over time.

I get the sense that for the rest of the collagenous structures of the penis, there is not a dimes worth of difference from the other collagenous structures of the body.

Bigger

Bib, what do you think causes the refractory reflex? For instance, I was doing a 20 minute set of DLD blasters this am, things were going really good the first 15 minutes, getting a great stretch on the rk, then when I moved to the last 5 minutes, it was like I hit a switch or something and my ligs didn’t want to stretch at all, like they were working against me. Perhaps I had worked to the end of the line as far as the elastin properties are concerned and was putting too much stress on the collagenous fibers?

It was really strange, and my dick still doesn’t feel like it wants to get as long erect as it should…

I wonder when you guys hang, is most of the hanging done with the collagenous fibers fully supporting the weight, or do you stay just below this level?

RB, here’s my WAG (which may be completely wrong):

With repeated loading, a given stress produces more strain. IOW, the same pull works the ligs harder the more times you do it. As your session progressed you were pulling at least as hard as when you began, and probably even harder. After 15 minutes the strain on your ligs increased to the level that they stiffened. First they stretch, then they stiffen, then they fail.

You were beyond stretching the elastin components exclusively. Visualize a fiber as a chain of stiff bungee cords with lightweight, extremely stretchy springs connecting them. The springs are elastin, and they easily extend to their full length (or do they?). You were past that, and hitting the tougher collagenous bungee cords.

You worked your ligs hard enough they moved into the “Oh shit, this is getting serious” phase and stiffened in response.

Or maybe not. ;)

Bib,

I looked up the “ligamentum flavum” and found it is the most elastic lig in the body (yellow in color because of the high content of elastin). Some other spinal ligs are similar.

I suspect the “different elastic modulus” indicated in the paper simply means at low tension it lengthens more than ligs that are less elastic. Duh! High-elastin ligs probably deform plastically under an appropriate load much the same as ligs containing less elastin.

RB,

> Bib, what do you think causes the refractory reflex? For instance, I was doing a 20 minute set of DLD blasters this am, things were going really good the first 15 minutes, getting a great stretch on the rk, then when I moved to the last 5 minutes, it was like I hit a switch or something and my ligs didn’t want to stretch at all, like they were working against me. Perhaps I had worked to the end of the line as far as the elastin properties are concerned and was putting too much stress on the collagenous fibers? It was really strange, and my dick still doesn’t feel like it wants to get as long erect as it should…<

By “refractory reflex”, do you mean the inability to stretch the ligs further, or the inability to get an erection soon after stretching?

If the first, hobby’s siting and his explanation above explained it very well. As the lig is stretched, the fluids move out of the tissues, allowing for the stretch until equilibrium. Then the load is solely on the actual collagenous tissues. With extended stretch, the bonds begin to fail.

>I wonder when you guys hang, is most of the hanging done with the collagenous fibers fully supporting the weight, or do you stay just below this level? <

I don’t really know what this means. Other than the skin, the collagenous fibers will always take almost all the stress, whatever that level might be. The softer inner tissues will take a little of the stress, but not much.

Hobby,

>You were beyond stretching the elastin components exclusively. Visualize a fiber as a chain of stiff bungee cords with lightweight, extremely stretchy springs connecting them. The springs are elastin, and they easily extend to their full length (or do they?). You were past that, and hitting the tougher collagenous bungee cords.<

I believe the fibers are interwoven with each other, elastin and collagen. The elastin fibers tend to ‘pull up’ the collagen fibers slightly. So when a load is applied, the elastin stretches easily, thereby applying the entire load to the collagen fibers. This is probably exactly what you were saying.

>I suspect the “different elastic modulus” indicated in the paper simply means at low tension it lengthens more than ligs that are less elastic. Duh! High-elastin ligs probably deform plastically under an appropriate load much the same as ligs containing less elastin.<

I believe that is correct.

Bigger

Thanks Hobby, that explanation jumped out at me. So is getting past the springs and to the bungee cords desireable? Is it what hangers strive for?

Another thought. Assuming I’d exhausted the elastin and forced all the fluid out, making the lig become hard and “brittle”, how long do you suppose it takes for the lig to recover to it’s normal state? Do you think the dry (no fluid) and brittle state causes the lig to be shorter than normal?

Bib? Hobby? Where’d everybody go?

:(

Isnt it the stiffened collagenous fibers that are the limiting factors?
If it is, would that not mean that when RB got to his wierd stage where stretching became more difficult that this is a desirable stage to be in in order to stress these fibers and break the limiting factors?

SS4

I’m back. Been busy lately.

The elastin components stretch to their full length easily. Pull your dick out hard enough to take a BPFSL measurement and they’re probably stretched to the max. Any tension beyond that places the load on the tougher, less flexible collagenous components.

Hanging or using a mechanical stretcher has advantages over other ways of applying tension, so the theory goes, because it takes time under load for ligs to stretch as much as they’re going to.

When hanging, they “creep,” or continue to lengthen with time.

When using an attached stretcher that holds the penis at a fixed length, the ligs “stress relax.” If you were to set the tension bolts on a fixed stretcher using a torque wrench, you’d find that when you later recheck the torque it will be reduced. Over time the penis relaxes at its new stretched length.

From the paper:

I don’t think manual stretching sessions express much fluid. Long periods of hanging and/or ADS do.

RB wrote:

I don’t know what mechanism causes this, but I’ve experienced it too - a real reduction in length: BPEL and BPFSL are shorter. I’ve only had it happen from intense manual stretching, never from hanging. Many months ago I was trying to lock in another 1/8”, got carried away (more must be better, right?), and did long periods of intense static manual stretching. After a few days of the “Super Stretch Routine” I lost the 1/8” that had been there for almost a week.

I’m currently doing DLD/JAI style manual stretching twice a day. I use a timer and limit myself to 20 minutes in the morning and 15 at night. I’m not doing any other PE due to a vein problem.

Thanks to RB’s 1/4 paper towel idea (paper towels are excellent!) I can pull comfortably using considerable force. I’m keeping a close eye on my flaccid size, using it as a gauge to determine if I may be overtraining. This is experimental. I shorten or skip a workout if flaccid seems abnormally small.

Hobby, when you DLD/JAI stretch, are you stopping just when you feel the full elastin stretch, or do you continue pulling past this, so you feel a good pull on the tougher not near as flexible fibers?

I’ve been trying to pull as far out as possible, always pushing the limit. Perhaps I need to scale things back?

For what it’s worth, my dick seems to have recovered from the retractive state, but it does seem directly related to pulling as far out as possible with considerable force…

After warming up with moist heat, I start out easy with light JAI’s and increase the intensity during the session. By the end I’m doing fulcrum Blasters and pulling almost as hard as I can.

When hanging you want to reach your max weight quickly, preferably in the first set. Start at the maximum and decrease the weight as necessary in subsequent sets.

IMO, the opposite approach is better for manual stretching. Gradually working up the intensity helps prevent the tissues/pubic muscles from tensing and contracting in reaction to the stress. This isn’t usually a problem when hanging because the extended time and continous tension allow the tissues to relax. Using too much weight may prevent relaxation even with extended time. Maybe this explains why the clock-watching teeth-gritting hangers often don’t gain well compared to those using more moderate weight?

Maybe the stretch reflex is our enemy. Hanging defeats it by waiting it out. Manual stretching techniques such as JAI/Blasters allow us to work around it.

Thoughts?

RB,

> Another thought. Assuming I’d exhausted the elastin and forced all the fluid out, making the lig become hard and “brittle”, how long do you suppose it takes for the lig to recover to it’s normal state? Do you think the dry (no fluid) and brittle state causes the lig to be shorter than normal? <

Hopefully, the lig does not return to “normal”. However, when the fluid returns, it will approach it’s former length. I would say minutes.

SS4Jelq,

> Isnt it the stiffened collagenous fibers that are the limiting factors?<

Righto.

>If it is, would that not mean that when RB got to his wierd stage where stretching became more difficult that this is a desirable stage to be in in order to stress these fibers and break the limiting factors?<

Righto again.

>I’ve been trying to pull as far out as possible, always pushing the limit. Perhaps I need to scale things back?<

I would say you need to spend more time in this state.

Bigger

Gotcha. Thanks guys… :)

What would be nice is a PE card something like a organ donor card you could carry. If you are in an accident and in a coma it says that you agree to let a doctor do PE on you. Wake up 5 years later with a cock down to your knees and a flock of nurses tending to your every need!

I saw an article on pumping in an old copy of H&E (naturist magazine) it was saying that vacuum pumps were out before WW1 and that it had been long proved medically, surely there must have been some studies at some time.