why is pumping with water different?

Dear Everyone,
I have been away for a while and recently decided to get back into enlargement again. I have been using a pump this time around combined with peni-master and jelqueing. I read in a thread here about pumping with water in the tube, so I tried it. I have noticed that the engorgement is much greater using water in the tube. I am a bit confused as to why this is happening. Also, I went with the 2” by 10” by la pump. After about three weeks now I find that with water I can almost fill it diameter wise, but when I fail to use water I do not reach those same dimensions. I have measured and it is using the same internal pressure.

Another question, because of the rim at the bottom of the LA pump cylinder, one cannot angle the penis up along the belly. Is there a proper angle while using the pump?

Many more questions, but I will read through the threads before asking.

Thank you,

Ropegroper

Well, I assume you’re using warm water when you pump, the constant heat that the water creates makes your tissues more elastic making the pumping session more productive. When I pump I wrap the cylinder in a heat pad to get a similar effect. And pumping angle really doesn’t matter to much from what I know, just put it at an angle thats most comfortable to you.

And watch out for water blisters. Water softens glans tissue; makes it more susceptible to vacuum pressure blips. These blisters hurt and take awhile to heal.

Air can expand and contract depending on several different conditions ie pressure and temperature.

Water can only expand and contract based on temperature.

What you talkin’ ‘bout, bt? ANYTHING (made of matter) can (and does) expand and contract based on pressure AND temperature.

There’s nothing ‘magical’ about water, if this is what you are implying.

WARNING: SCIENCE ALERT! (most important bits in bold green)

Actually, water held at a constant temperature cannot be compressed at all, it only expands based on temperature variations. Thats they whole idea behind brake fluid. [A little aside here: Tubes between the brake pedals and the brakes on the wheels are filled with a fluid, and when the pedals are pressed it causes a piston or something to push against the fluid in the tubes, and because liquids cannot be compressed the fluid in the tubes instantly pushes against the brakes, in turn causing them to push against the wheels. So whats happening in the pumps is similar to this idea.]

Physical explanation: In a penis pump using air, air is drawn out of the tube to create a vacuum, however, the remaining air will always expand (via the molecules moving apart because air is a gas, so the bonds between molecules are very weak) to fill the volume, creating a lower pressure, causing the penis to expand due to the pressure difference inside and outside the penis. Water, however, will not expand or contract if kept at a constant temperature, so when you draw some water out with the pump, the remaining water will not expand (in terms of molecules moving further apart to fill the volume) but if the whole system is air-tight then no air can get in to replace the water, so, the water MUST fill the volume of the tube somehow (similar to when you fill a glass in a sink full of water then hold it above the water level upside-down no water comes out) however, as I have said, not by means of the molecules moving further apart. Therefore the only thing in the tube that can take the place of the missing water (instead of air) is your penis, and that is why it expands more. Its all to do with the bonds between water molecules being too strong compared with the possible pressure being exerted on it, so the molecules can’t be forced apart, and the water keeps the same volume.

More concisely: In air, the air just expands to fill the space and the lower pressure causes the penis to expand slightly. In water the water is removed and the water remaining in the tube cannot expand. That leaves the penis as the only thing that can expand, which is why it expands more using water than using air.

Try filling the pump completely with water and try pumping it without your penis in there not letting any air in (keep the bottom of the tube against a flat surface). I guarantee you will not be able to pump it very much. Sorry about the complex explanation - I’m a physicist! :p

Rifor, hate to disagree - but I disagree! :)

On an entirely technical standpoint;

The molecules of any chunk of any state of matter can be more or less compressed. I understand why you say “cannot be, at a constant temperature” because the action of compression causes friction between molecules which generates heat (hence the temperature would not be seen to remain constant, but in theory, you are not heating it, the heat is a bi-product of the compression). Unless you have something freaky like a bose-einstein condensate, (which I will not even attempt to include) molecules can always be pushed closer and closer together, it just requires more and more energy.

In a gas, the molecules are fairly far apart, and so it requires little energy to squeeze them closer together (‘pressurise’) but with a liquid, they are already much closer together to form a denser state. You can still push them closer together, you just need to put in more energy to overcome certain inter molecular forces which keep them from getting too close. (in fact the reason Water’s boiling point is so high is because it’s hydrogen bonds make it difficult to tear apart - it WANTS to stick close together!) You can see an example of inter-molecular forces in a glass of water at the surface. What they call the Meniscus is where the water ‘curves up’ towards the glass rather than being dead flat - this is because the water molecules are attracted to the glass molecules. But I am rambling now.

I believe that the reason that pumping with water in the tube is more effective is because a liquid is closer to a solid than a gas (obviously) in terms of density of the mass. So, in theory I agree with your explaination, ie that when pumping, gas will more easily be affected by pressure than a liquid, and hence it will start to affect the rather hollow penis before the medium in the case of using a liquid. ie in that closed system, the penis is more expandable than the liquid, as opposed to the gas being more prone to change than the penis… if you get what I’m talking about.

But I disagree with the fundamental point that water cannot be compressed independant of temperature.

I will give you an extreme example - a black hole. Will you try to tell me that everything else but water will be squeezed into a singularity? ;)

Of course not, but it takes a hell of a lot of energy to get to that state of ‘pressurisation’. It can be done. Water is a very strange substance, but it still has to conform to the laws of the universe like the rest of us.

but hey, do you want to point me to some resource that will prove me wrong? I will still argue :D

Molecules can always be pushed closer and closer together, I suppose theoretically until they are touching, or until they combine, but that would require an extremely large and impractical amount of energy to do. And if you allow temperature to vary it will increase as you increase the pressure on the water. And its true that water molecules want to “stick together”, but that doesn’t mean they’re happy to get any closer to each other. From what I remember from chemistry, the covalent bonds in the water molecules has polarised each atom (to be positive or negative), so when pressure is exerted on the water molecules, the only way they can get closer together without requiring huge amounts of energy is for them to align so that the negatively polarised atom of the molecule is next to the positively polarised atom in its neighbouring molecule. And then when the atoms get to close to each other a repulsion develops to keep the atoms apart, which is due to the obital electrons because of Pauli’s exclusion principle that no two atoms can exist in the same quantum state (cannot be in close proximity with the same spin). Now liquid molecules are already in a very close proximity to each other, thats not to say that there is no compression at all, just that in “lab conditions” (room temperature in this case) water is incompressible as what compression there is is negligible.

In black hole conditions liquid definitely can be compressed. But the explanation requires general relativity and the fact that the force from the black hole is so strong that the water would no longer be water (I think it would just end up being its constituent subatomic particles packed so closely together the rules of water would not matter).

Some links indicating the incompressibility of water under lab conditions are:

- talks about how it can be compressed, but requires significant pressure, and water is just taken as “practically” incompressible.

- series of images showing how weights on a blocked syringe cannot compress the liquid in the tube.

Can’t wait to hear you’re argument! :D But I think I’m spent, I don’t think I know enough to say any more than I already have (only second year uni), but it shouldn’t be arguable anyway - not under the conditions for pumping anyway! If you can counteract whats shown by the second link then you win, considering the second link shows picture similar to the action of pumping, except she’s trying to compress the liquid whereas pumping would try and expand it.

I hope to be one too!!:D I’m currently majoring in Mechanical Enginerding and Physics.

Thanks for explaining my point further. I know that technically you can make water contract by pressurizing, but it would take a extremely large amount of force to do so.

For practical purposes, water is an incompressible fluid. Think how practical compressed water would be—but there isn’t any to be found, and not because people haven’t tried.

Well, I’m glad that I was able to initiate a discussion of physics. I, too, have post graduate training and understand the physics behind the issue now that they were brught to my attention. Water is not compressible, but it is expandible in solid form-don’t forget what happens to frozen water. I guess that the best way to pump, then, would be to use water. But, I do question it because as the tissue overlying the fascia expand with water, the force on the fascia itself will decrease. So in the end maybe the best way would be to do it without water or heat. I t would be best to do it with the tube cold, so that as it warmed up the pressure would remain more constant.

Sincerely, I appreciate all of the responses.

Is it me or does everyone say to their penis….grow…damn it grow!

Ropegroper

Rifor, I see where you are coming from and as usual, a misunderstanding has occurred.

As I said in my initial paragraph: “On an entirely technical standpoint”, I was not disagreeing that water is “practically incompressable under normal conditions”. The thing that I did not like was that you were saying things such as “water held at a constant temperature cannot be compressed at all”, which is inequivocally incorrect, with no ifs or buts about it. I was arguing the point that water is technically compressable. An important detail which you did not seem to acknowledge.

Maybe in one of your engineering exams, if you answered that in a multiple choice, you would be correct, without a more correct answer available, but in the overall scheme of things it is entirely incorrect for the simple reason that everything is compressable.

The reason I felt the need to counter this kind of statement is that I find things like it are the origin of ignorance and misunderstanding. If textbooks were this definate, yet technically incorrect, with all the little pieces of defining information missing, we would have a whole heap of professionals who did not truly understand what they were doing in all fields of science. That is something that we cannot afford to have when people like you who will be designing cars, buildings, space ships, etc.

E.g. a few seconds before: “Woops, I didn’t realise that water actually is compressable, but only at high temperature/pressure! My textbook told me it wasn’t! Too late….” And then the first Mars colony explodes, killing 3.7 million people. Woops indeed!

Also, on the same point, I find it really freaking annoying when I come across some misinformed body (not you) who “heard form somewhere/someone” some particular “fact”, which is either totally incorrect or has some flaws to it, and when you try to explain to them those inconsistencies, or correct them in a technical way they get all shitty because they believed the first thing they heard without critically evaluating it.

If you had stated “it shouldn’t be arguable anyway - not under the conditions for pumping anyway!” in your first post, or if bt had said that to begin with, I would not be posting this right now.

So long as you understand where I am coming from everything is good. :D

I understand where you’re coming from, and you’re correct, everything is compressible, it just takes different amounts of energy, pressure whatever. I did know that before my first post, but didn’t expect the response I got :D because I only meant what I said in the context of pumping, as I said afterwards. I didn’t think it would need explaining that under very specialised condition its possible.

I also seem to have been confusing (as I often am, unfortunately) in my point about water held at constant temperature. I’ll try to explain better, which is hard for me! :p I just want to clear it up so you know where I’m coming from, and so I don’t look too stupid! :D

Consider a strong metal box filled completely with only a liquid - no solid, gas or vacuum occupying any other space. Now if enough pressure is exerted on one side of the box then it would move in and compress the liquid (imagine that side can be pushed in evenly, similar to the action of a piston, the whole side moving into the box evenly to compress the liquid). However, this will cause the atoms/molecules in the liquid to gain more energy and hence gain temperature (due to friction/overcoming repulsive Coulomb force). But if you have a way of removing that energy from the liquid to keep the temperature constant, I don’t know how but just say we can for the sake of argument, then the atoms molecules would have to remain at their original distances from each other because they would not have enough energy to overcome the repulsive forces between them.

This is the type of thing that physics textbooks talk about. You’re right in that they don’t always give real world explanations. Up until second year degree level physics I’ve only been taught about ideal systems with none of the real world anomalies involved, but a lot of the time the physics given in books is still correct but depends on certain fanciful conditions.

And about your point of misinformed people who won’t accept other sides of arguments (not you also! :D ), I’m totally with you on that! I have a housemate like it! He thinks he’s right about everything, even when he’s totally wrong, and he think just because he did and A-level in Philosophy that he can argue better than anyone else. He doesn’t realise what he says is often crap. The only problem he tends to like to argue about social things. Like the other day we were talking about how in Europe the UK is one of the worst place in the EU for working - Longest hours for least pay. He said that wasn’t true and it was in fact one of the best places, but I tried telling him how I have seen on the News recently, quite a few times, that the UK is one of the worst places in the EU for hours to pay ratio.

Anyway, sorry about my little side rant at one of my annoying housemates! But he is the pinnacle of arrogance and ignorance!

Hopefully now my ramblings have sorted themselves out into being a little more comprehensible, but if not, oh well, I give up! :D Let’s just get on with what we’re here to do - PE!

So if water causes water blisters during pumping, is there any other possible liquids to pump with?

Thunder's place - Making PE a science every day.

Good post Rifor, cleared the thing right up.

Good argument yet again, Sec, you surely can start a fight out of anything. You almost sound like finnish! :D