Permanence of pumping (again)

In all seriousness, I wonder if pumping is any less "impermanent" than any other form of PE.

It seems that all who PE’s (whether it be hanging, manual work or pumping) and reach their goal size, report doing some kind of maintainence work in order to retain their gains.

Avocet has reported that a light (~4x/month) pumping routine has enabled him to retain his own gains.

This, to me, compares favorably with the reports of the maintainence routines associated with other forms of PE.

There is also a paucity of reports from PE-er’s (from all walks of PE) who have met their goal size and retained all of their gains with no maintainence routine at all. If such guys do exist, they do not seem to be making very many reports here at Thunder’s.

So on what basis do we conclude that other forms of PE are permanent whereas pumping is not?

Then there is Supersizeit, who reports losing virtually all of his gains when he stopped all PE for several years. IIRC, Super had used a variety of PE methods to achieve his gains.

It seems to me, therefore, that in the absence of evidence that any form of PE is permanent without some kind of maintainence schedule, it is therefore unfair to argue that pumping is an inferior form of PE due to the fact that one must continue a maintainence schedule indefinately.

Perhaps if pumping required a heavier maintainence workload than other forms of PE, then there might be some case against it.

It would be interesting to compare the maintainence routines of pumpers, hangers, and manual-only PE-ers to see if this is the case. If the anti-pumping faction has not done such a comparison, then I can’t see the basis in slamming pumping as impermanent.

Having said all that, I’ve decided to give pumping a go, and I’m working on building my own pump right now. I’ve decided to combine it with my manual streches and squeezes.

So hopefully someone who’s built their own pump will take a look at my query about the MityVac and help me out.

Is this the item used to make home made pumps?

No, but seriously - I want to start pumping.

The nice thing about gains - “permanent” or no - is that when you have ‘em, they don’t dissappear overnight. Takes awhile, my guess is. I do maintenance as “insurance.” I don’t want to gamble after all this work that they are permanent, then find down the road that I’ve lost them.

Anyway, a maintenance schedule is so damned much easier than the old day-in-day-out work. A cake walk, compared with that, even though I admit I enjoyed most of the process of getting there. I don’t remember resenting many PE days.

Check your other thread Ed.

I dont know what some guys are talking about….I HATE PEing!! LoL. Maybe cuz Im just frustrated with seeing virtually no gains after over a year? BUT….I have been starting to inch ever so slowly forward….after putting pumping into my routine. I measured a good 16 hrs after a pump session so I think the measurement was pretty accurate…

Once I reach my goal, I WILL go under some sort of maintenance, but it will not be nearly as time consuming as my current regiment. Maybe twice a week? It’s just like body building, just because you can lift a certain weight and have a certain muscle mass, that doesnt mean you will keep that forever. You need to keep the muscles stimulated to continue growth, or maintain your current status…

cuz??

But the penis isn’t a muscle, so the analogy holds no water.

I never said it was a muscle…I said it was “like” when muscle builders stop lifting….”like like like”!!!!! Never said, “Because the penis is a muscle, once you stop working it out, it will shrink….” …therefore…..ITS A GOOD ANALOGY!!! :P

Sorry Thunder about the grammatical error…

:) No problem w7.5. Just messing with you. Don’t you hate leaky analogies? Shit gets all over the place when that happens.

You were comparing the longevity of added muscle mass to added penile mass, and since the penis isn’t a muscle they have no basis for comparison.

But it wasn’t a personal attack, so chill out bro.

Beinging a body builder/penis builder I must say they go hand in hand and use the same overall discipline of intense work, good diet and plenty of rest. So I agree with the analogy. If I take a break from my routine in either PE or BB (bodybuilding) I lose some size and strength in both departments. I think since we are forcing the cells in our bodies to multiply to help rebuild the body or body part in this matter its more how we nurture the growth through food, supplements and resting. I think the biggest mistake is to say the penis is not a muscle. It was created in the same manner as your foot or pectoral muscle. Its your genetics that chose to build an arm or foot where they are on your body not the cells. So if we want we can say that the only difference between the penis and muscular system of our bodies is its genetic make and purpose. But it still is fed the sam way and needs the same requirements to survive. So exactly why are they not the same? I dont see a difference.

Ed,

I believe that supersizeit made his big early gains from pumping ironically - you know, the gains he lost. I remember reading in a thread that he began PE with a pump, then turned his buddy onto pumping.

You’ve mentioned the paucity of reports of “permanent” gains, but stillwantmore has written that he took an entire year off, cold turkey, and lost absolutely nothing. Some of my own training has been less-than-dedicated. Even though I’ve only been PEing for about 1 year, I’ve often missed weeks at a time (about 5-6 consecutive weeks is the most, I’d imagine - but many times I’ve gone 2+ weeks), and my losses were negligible. In fact, I’ve lost nothing on erect girth (from 5.2” to 6.2” EG, midshaft - and that ain’t no liquid, it’s rock hard). As far as erect length, I’d never lost more than 1/8” (which I believe I simply had not yet cemented at that time).

I believe the statements about the “brevity” of pumping gains vs. manual/hanging gains regards the very nature of those gains. Admittedly, I’ve never pumped - but I’ve studied it much, as I had seriously considered pumping. It appears that most of pumping gains comes from lymphatic fluid being sucked into the penis via vacuum forces. With a short stout cylinder, you get more of a lateral (girth) effect. With a longer narrower cylinder, you get more of a linear (length) effect. However, the length effect from vacuum can’t possibly be as good as that from vigorous stretching or hanging. And the girth effect is not truly like jelqing (which expands the penis from the inside out - via the CC/CS), but is actually fluid on top of the tunica & beneath the skin, actually compressing the tunica - which is the opposite of traditional PE.

I believe that with manual/hanging PE, the size increases constitute true “enlargement” or “growth.” With pumping, that size increase seems more akin to “swelling” (such as a sprained ankle). As I’ve stated in an earlier thread, I’ve read disgusted posts in other forums by 20-year-veteran pumpers who’ve made very similar observations: Over time, you get bigger & bigger in the tube, but quit pumping and it’s all gone.

One guy wrote, “When the hell are these gains supposed to be permanent?? - I’ve been pumping for 20 years!” Others voiced similar laments - that their penis learns to swell bigger in the tube over time, and it will stay inflated for longer periods over time, but quit and you’re all the way back to square one.

That just doesn’t appeal to me.

I know that some pumpers here combine regular PE with their pumping, and say that it helps to cement gains. Could be. I have no experience with that. Pumping might be fun, it certainly gives dramatic swelling instantly….so be it. I have no axe to grind on this issue, I just really don’t believe that it’s permanent, or I’d be next in line.

I’ve also had a childhood buddy admit to me years after the fact that he PE’d his cock from 5” to over 7”. He quit altogether, but said he is still “around 7 inches.” I’m guessing he didn’t lose more than 1/4” or so - and is still much bigger than when he started, with zero maintenance work.

I tend to agree with stillwantmore - cement your gains and they’re yours to keep.

Hmm…

I can’t comment on those who spent 20 years pumping and had no gains. The closest I could compare that to is the chap who spent a year hanging and had no gains.

He’s now pumping, and is a strong convert. Read the above thread. (err..below thread, or wherever it is)

This is not to say hanging does not work.

I pride myself on being fairly pragmatic. What I believe, feel or reason takes second seat to results. I started pumping because of how large pumpers were compared to the vast majority of non-pumpers. Now, I’m sure for the pumping cynics they will dispute these stats by claiming that such individuals:

A) Started out big.
B) Are natural gainers.
C) Used other PE techniques.
D) Their gains came about after jelqing and hanging, so the penis was really simply adapting to the previous stress..so we really can’t attribute that to pumping. (Don’t laugh, you can find parrallel reasoning in the AD-4 thread)
E) Are lying.
F) All of the above.

Take your pick.

But the constant I generally found, and continually find, when someone claimed an impressive size…is pumping.

I agree that fluid build up is responsible for the illusion of gains short term, but that has not been my experience. I tried the bloated cock thing, and found it mildly stupid (no offence to those who get off on it), instead I pump and Jelq as recommended in 101, and have gotten bigger. Not monstrous results, but a little at a time adds up.

This after over a year of virtually no gains.

So I conclude that pumping is an aid to PE. My experiences is that it enhances jelqing and squeezing by drawing in just a little more blood than normal. Will this aid PE? Unquestionably. How much is hard to determine. But most of us are a little impatient :)

Can pumping create a bigger dick on it’s own. Yes. Will it do so for everyone? No. Same as all PE.

There is one other attribute to pumping which I think might be overlooked in these discussions, or not given as much weight.

Improved erections.

Pumping has been recommended by doctors for patients who have ED (at least, that’s what I hear…I’ve never looked into this claim). But since pumping, I ALWAYS wake up with a hard on. This was not happening before. I firmly believe that sexual health acts as a circuit breaker for gains. Not there, no gains.

(I might wrong on this point…but at the very least, a dick that constantly is being nourished with blood and expanded has got to improve quicker than one that is not.)

I personally believe this is why PE pumpers over time, are bigger than PE non-pumpers.

Cheers!
N.

(PS Incidentally, I have begun hanging as well, recently. Personally, I don’t like it much. Clamping on weight, squishing your dick, and cutting off circulation is a a pumpers bane. But most hangers gain. On a balance of probabilities, rare is someone who has not gained after, say…100 hours of hang time. So I’m hanging now. I feel that after 100 hours of hang time I should be a solid 8 (I’m a little under, currently. Maybe 7 3/4 to 7 7/8). This should be accomplished withing a month..so I”ll let you all know the results.)

This is a debate that will go on and on, fueled mostly by enthusiasts of other forms of PE or Extreme Pumpers who are deluded into thinking that a fatter dick, post-long-session pumping, must certainly result in a longer, thicker erect one. Not necessarily so.

Is PE, by any method you do it, “permanent?” What does “permanent” mean? Is a year permanent?

I was talking with peforeal last week. I told him in an email that since I went on a semi-retirement program late last winter - and an extremely lazy one at that (I am doing less now than any of you I would wager) - I’ve lost 1/4” length, and mysteriously gained girth I wasn’t looking to get.

That is plenty permanent for me. If I lose more length and want to get it back, I know how to do that, but so far things are stable.

And, as Northstar points out, the erectile benefits from regular pumping are pretty darned wonderful, too.

Hey Wadzilla:

I hear what you’re saying.

It seems to me that most unsuccessfull long term pumpers used pumping and only pumping as their sole PE resource.

It seems that the truly successfull long term pumpers used pumping in conjunction with some other form of PE.

I plan on using my pump in conjunction with my manual exercises. I already know that I can gain from stretches and squeezes; now I’m hoping that adding pumping will result in still better gains.

Currently I’ve cut way back on my manual stuff in order to concentrate on getting conditioned to pumping. Over the next few weeks or months I’ll slowly build up to 2 or 3 sessions of 10-15 minutes each. Then, once I’m ready for it, I’ll re-introduce intense manual work, in between the pump sessions to round out my program.

I’ll keep everyone posted on how it’s going.

Yes, I agree that any type of PE will aid erections (this is why I actually came to PE in the first place - mild E.D.).

Regarding the guys who’ve pumped for 20 years without gains, perhaps they only pumped & did nothing else. But that isn’t difficult to believe. Dr. Kaplan is finally cooperating with the F.D.A. on a study of “permanent enlargment” via pumping - claims which Dr. Kaplan has made for years, unsubstantiated. The feds finally caught up with him & pretty much cornered him into cooperating - or he would no longer be allowed to make claims of “penis enlargement” in his ads (which might possibly be the case anyway, after the study is completed). Makes me wonder why ol’ Joel waited so many years to try to get the “official stamp” (perhaps he knows that pumping alone will not give longterm gains).

Regarding guys who’ve made big gains - Bib got 5” from hanging, DLD got over 4” from manual, RB got over 3.5” manual….and many guys have gotten between 2-3” from manual. I think those are pretty substantial gains. I increased my penile mass by 2/3 and radically improved my erections by manual PE alone….and I’ve begun hanging recently, on an abbreviated schedule.

But hell, if pumping could greatly augment natural PE, then I’d certainly be willing to take another look at it. After all, it’s much easier than hanging - and you could do pump while laying in bed watching T.V. :)

Keep us posted.