Chemical PE: The Long Awaited Evidence

Marinera,

Your two major objections to this oxygenation theory were (a) Oxygenation cannot increase SM content in healthy men (b) The tunica is the limiting factor so increased SM content means nothing

I believe that I managed to provide good evidence against (a)
However, I am starting to feel that injections may not be the best way to increase SM content.

I think (b) could be a more serious criticism. Your theory of clamping sounds very convincing. The tunica may not expand at all as a result of clamping. But this does not necessarily mean that tunica expansion is impossible.

If the oxygenation theory is correct and argument (a) and (b) are both false, that suggests that all that is needed for growth is to be hard for a ridiculously high percentage of the day.

Nobody has yet tried being hard for twelve hours a day (with frequent breaks) for 3 months or so

Could that be the answer?

Being hard for very prolonged periods could give girth gains without that requiring b) is either true or false, actually. :)

I’m not sayng clamping can’t expand at all tunica; what I’m saying is that tunica expands less than is believed. Being hard for prolonged periods can lead to some gains, but very limited: a young healthy man is hard for several hours daily: consider nocturnal erections. Here lies the problem: nocturnal erections are more intense than conscious erections. So, to get girth gains an increased amount of pressure is required than the one that can be achieved through erections. In the above mentioned study comparing vacuum pumping to erection drugs, people had size increase with just 10 minutes daily pumping.

I do believe that, generally speaking, time under tension is more important than intensity; neverthless, the degree of intensity has to be at least an infinitesimal higher than the one the penis is familiar with.

Girls! Girls! Stop! You’re both obstinate.

While I understand this is all in good fun, let’s be careful that the kidding around doesn’t escalate. You guys are both really sharp, and seem to be close to equally relentless. I just want to make sure it’s all good and we’re all still having fun. It’s tricky stuff in black and white. Sometimes the tongue in cheek wink doesn’t get caught, depending on the mood of the reader. Emoticons can help.

That said. Your debate is fantastic. Keep up the good work … and the spirit of camaraderie.

On the topic:

I’m no scientist, but this popped out at me.

I suggest you reconsider it. It seems to me that there is a logical fallacy in there somewhere.

The more blood = more oxygen = smooth muscle portion seems to me to have a built-in leap there.

Excellent point. I certainly don’t need it, for example.

I need mine, though. You may have just found a universal uniting principle here at the brotherhood of Thunder’s Place. :leftie:

:eek2:

“The more blood = more oxygen = smooth muscle portion seems to me to have a built-in leap there.”

It sounds pretty strange to me to, but that seems to be what the evidence is saying.

“SILDENAFIL PRESERVES INTRACORPOREAL SMOOTH MUSCLE
AFTER RADICAL RETROPUBIC PROSTATECTOMY”
ERIC J. SCHWARTZ, PHILIP WONG AND R. JAMES GRAYDON

“Increased
oxygen tension, testosterone, insulin-like growth
factor 1 and endothelial growth factor have been associated
with protecting or increasing smooth muscle content.”

The study basically says:

Healthy men have SM content of ~49%
They get impotence as a result of prostate cancer and end up with SM content of ~43%
They take chronic daily doses of viagra for several months and end up with ~57%

+ The monkeys ended up with way more SM (according to the professor)
+ other articles make a similar point about oxygenation

The oxygenation theory is pretty sound IMO

It is possible that all the girth gains people talk about on this site are as a result of fluid build up outside the tunica. Girth enhancement surgery (I believe) usually works in a similar way.

However, there is evidence that the tunica can grow to accommodate changes in the “inner penis”. I have experienced length gains which suggests that the tunica can permanently enlarge (at least in the upwards direction).

There is also some medical evidence supporting the ability of the tunica to permanently enlarge:

“Increasing Size With Penile Implants”
Drogo K. Montague, MD, and Kenneth W. Angermeier, MD

The Apollo implant (Giant Medical Corporation, Cremona,
Italy) was designed to act as an intracorporeal
tissue expander. Periodic injections of normal saline are
made percutaneously into the Apollo implant.

Have you read my last post? Or are you replying to Hap? :confused:

I have tried pumping at high pressure persistently for long periods of time.
This failed to give me any girth increase (although I got some length).

Perhaps I should attempt to increase the SM content of my dick simply by being hard on-off for 12 hours or a day.

I am about to leave college and will have enough time on my hands.

Hopefully I will end up with something approaching “megalophallus” without the nasty side-effects.

Marinera,

“I do believe that, generally speaking, time under tension is more important than intensity; neverthless, the degree of intensity has to be at least an infinitesimal higher than the one the penis is familiar with”

That’s what I always assumed. But unfortunately half an hour of intense pumping each day gave me no girth. Perhaps I will try 9 hours of light intermittent pumping, plus viagra or caverject before bed.

That might give me a moderate “stuttering” priapism that is believed to lead to growth.

If the professor is correct (and I admit that there is a substantial “if”) all you need for gains is to be hard for a very long time.

London, I think you should go through a more canonical progression : jelqs, if they don’t work clamping, if that doesn’t work horse440.

I don’t know what ‘intense pumping’ means in your case, pumping is never to be done at high pressure. If proper pumping gave you no girth gains, prolonged erections in any form have about zero chances to give gains. Something many seems to forget is that, among the many cases of priapism, only a very small percentage of people gets an enalrged penis - be the enlargement functional or not.

I appreciate the advice.

When I did “intense pumping” I aimed to go slightly beyond a natural erection. I aimed to stretch the tunica a little bit everyday. I avoided excessive pressure, but tried to go slightly beyond what felt like a regular erection.

I did actually gain a substantial amount of length to the point where my penis started to look out of proportion. Because of my total lack of girth gains I had to give up.

My new idea is to use the information provided by the professor and backed up by the “Sildenafil preserves” article in my quest to gain girth.
The idea is to simply maintain an erection on-off for maybe 12 or 14 hours. This could potentially increase the SM content and force my tunica to expand. It might sound idiotically simplistic, but so does manual PE (to the average person).

If this fails I will probably go Kamikaze and talk to my brother who is a postgrad on a biotech course. He probably has access to all sorts of growth hormones.

Growth hormones will do nothing on your penis size either. Having a boner 14h daily? What are you going to do for a living?

What’s your stats?

I have not been able to work out what percentage of men with high-flow priapism end up with “gains”. There are cursory references to enlargement in a number of articles, but no hard percentages. It could just be an underreported side-effect. Surgeons and medical professionals engaged in saving a person from impotence are unlikely to be interested in size changes unless they are masssive (as in the case of the megalophallus studies).

My stats are roughly 6.75 * 5.0 (pretty much average)

I am about to graduate college, so I will have loads of time to spend on schemes like this.

I exceeded 7.0 NBPEL by quite a long way when I was pumping

Dude, those are not average stats at all. If you can get length without problem get length. I think in the process you’ll get a bit of girth gains too. I wouldn’t be made about penis enlargement with stats like those, sacrificing 14 h daily and a lot of money to get some girth gains basing on a bunch of dubious suppositions. Take it easy and don’t try to reinvent the wheel.

I am considering injecting VEGF and IGF along with my PGE.

These substances are actually available from research suppliers. There is evidence that they can increase SM content in mice.

My theory rests on the assumption that SM enlargement will force the tunica to expand.

I can’t find any evidence either way about this. Although there is evidence that SM shrinkage will force the tunica to shrink.
“Penile length changes after radical prostatectomy”