Gain .5 inch/month with no excersizes

Jones,

>Erect length base pressure was 6.5 when I started. It is now just under 7
The BP stands for bone pressed. Pressing the ruler to the pubic bone. Its quite possible with inconsistent measuring alone to produce large variations. Use a mean measurement if you are not seeing much stability. If bone pressed flaccid stretch produces a more consistent measurement then stick with that. After all its not how long it is but gains that you are measuring.

>I have rigid ruler, so it is tough to measure girth. But it looks thicker.
Use a length of string and mark the crossing point when wrapped around then measure that.

>No manual PE, ever.
Its not unusual for people to hit a growth spurt when they start PE’ing manually simply through a better quality of erection (and beyond that from length recovery). At 21 I would expect your erections were fairly good before you started but if you are noting a better quality of erection this may well influence your measurements. I don’t think it could explain a 1/2” increase though.

I will be interested in hearing your results for a 3 month period, when the above variants cannot be seen to have played any part.

Northstar,

>I would hate to see Thunders become another convention.

Everywhere tends toward the conservative, don’t you think? The advantage of a board like this is there are always new interpretations and new people coming along.

Yeah every form of PE carries its own risks, some greater than others. There was a thread on the risk/reward relationship awhile ago.

“I agree that Jones should not downplay the health risks, but that’s not what seems to be ruffling all the feathers.

Something else is lurking.” I believe there are several people trying to create an effective testosterone enhancer and are afraid I am encroaching on their territory.

There seem to be 2 topics here. Theory and Safety.

Theory Side:

There seem to be many people claiming topical androgens cant have a local effect. Many people have heard that the drug diffuses into the blood stream and is circulated. However, I believe there is proof that that is false. The androgel prescribing information says explicitly not to apply it to your balls. Why? I thought it just diffuses through those little cappilaries and veins? Oh, you mean that the problem is that it is too close to your testes. But, I thought it didn’t matter where you applied it, because basal levels raise to the same level no matter where you apply the gel. Hmmm, it looks like when you apply it right to the scrotum, something more suppressive happens than if you apply to your shoulders and let the androgens eventually get there! This shows that androgens have local topical activity.

“The BP stands for bone pressed. Pressing the ruler to the pubic bone. Its quite possible with inconsistent measuring alone to produce large variations. Use a mean measurement if you are not seeing much stability. If bone pressed flaccid stretch produces a more consistent measurement then stick with that. After all its not how long it is but gains that you are measuring.”

Base pressure is just an assumption. I pressed firmly until it felt like there was bone. I am confident that my measurements are accurate.

I agree safety is important. Lets discuss specific risks, its effects and ways to avoid or mitigate them.

I think the risks should be divided into two categories:

Effects of increase of basal testosterone. (BPH, hair loss, exogenous test suppression)

Effects of local androgens on penile tissue. (down-regulation of receptors, etc)

Ok, my interests lay only in safety. I will agree that the theory is sound. If you are gaining then there is a local effect. This is nothing new to me. I have been studying this for quite awhile. I attempted to show a link between dht and gains before. I even posted a warning about using Fin and working out.

With the combination of all of us who have studied this, it is possible to reduse the threats. I will enlist the help of others who have spent time looking into this.

Safety is priority number 1 in my mind. I do not want someones ED on my hands. Nor hair loss.

>The androgel prescribing information says explicitly not to apply it to your balls. Why?<

I can think of three possible reasons:

1) Scrotum skin is thin and sensitive. The alcohol carrier may cause irritation.

2) Absorption rate. Scrotal skin is thin and highly vascularized. According to product info at the AndroGel website , "When AndroGel® is applied, its alcohol base dissolves, leaving a clear, non-oily testosterone film that is absorbed into the skin and does not stain clothing. From the skin, the testosterone is slowly released [emphasis added] into the bloodstream to help men achieve normal testosterone levels."

3) To avoid transfer to your woman during sex.

“I would hate to see Thunders become another convention.”

If there was a danger of that, this thread would have been deleted by me, instead I moved it to the correct forum. Another reason to NOT delete the thread is to make some of the cautions available as well as the dismissal of the potential dangers.

“Something else is lurking.”

What do you mean here northstar?? Egos??

Those are good points. But we can argue like that forever.

1) Scrotum skin is thin and sensitive. The alcohol carrier may cause irritation.
What about eyelids? The skin is thin there too.

3) To avoid transfer to your woman during sex.
Well your parter is also going to get it on her if you put it on your back, arms or legs.

ED:ED:ED:ED - The worst of the worst no doubt

Ok, lets get back to safety. Does it cause ED?

Good question:

From the studies I have read, the answer is no. Something that important would have been reported. I am currently hunting for these articles.

Immergut M, Boldus R, Yannone E, et al: The topical application of
testosterone cream to the prepubertal phallus. J Urol 105:905-906, 1971
1991

Jacob SC, Kaplan GW, Gittes RF: Topical testosterone therapy
for penile growth. Urology 6:708-710, 1975

Sakakibara N, Nonamura K, Koyanagi, et al: Use of testosterone
ointment before hypospadias repair. Urol Int 47:42-43,
1991

Darby CW, Vanderschuerren M, Lode W, et al: Testosterone
cream use (or) abuse? Lancet 2:598, 1974

It appears that the topical T method has quite a history? I don’t think it would have come this far if those user in the 70s reported ED. But like I said, I am gathering this from the titles. Its really tough finding articles that old, I am working on it.

Jones

I don’t think your a troll and I don’t think your selling anything and I really do believe that you think this stuff will help grow dick. I do believe that you came on this board thinking that the members are so desperate to grow dick that they will toss the safety issues aside and join your experiment and that you have no regard for their safety. And that alone is my issue with you. I also must say that my curiosity has got me totally interested and I’m hoping that some of our members that have experience with roids will try it. I don’t have any experience and I like my hair and having a functioning dick so I ain’t taking the chance.

Dino

Response of micropenis to topical testosterone and gonadotrophines. A comparative study (author’s transl), Anales Espanoles De Pediatria, Volume 16, Issue 2, February 1982, Pages 145-152
Díaz Gómez, L A; Lagarón Comba, E; Pérez Escariz, P

The study states that topical T causes better growth then paraenteral.

Response of micropenis to topical testosterone and gonadotropin, The Journal Of Urology, Volume 119, Issue 5, May 1978, Pages 667-668
Klugo, R C; Cerny, J C

The above study was done w/ pre-pubertal who have a 5AD deficiency.

“Topical testosterone produced an average increase of 60% in penile length and 52.9% in girth. The greatest growth response occurred in prepubertal male subjects with a minimal response in postpubertal male subjects. This study suggests that 10% topical testosterone cream twice daily will produce effective penile growth.”

Note: I would really like to know what ‘minimal’ means. Could minimal not be 20%, compared to the 52.9% stated above? If it does, then this is important to note.

It seems that about a few hundred people (estimate of the sum clinical trial patients done on people w/hypospadias or 5AD or 17HSD deficiencies) have done this topical T thing over the last 3 decades.

Interesting… very very interesting

One final word. A lot of people have been bashing me on this forum. But we have the potential to to level the playing field. I believe we may be on the footsteps of a significant piece of knowledge that will benefit the millions of people who have developed somtimes debilitating social fears do to penis size. The risks are present, but I agiain offer evidence that they have been examined by scientists, I again conclude, that the ends justify the means.

Just to set the record straight, 6 people havent tried this. Probably around 600 has. They used testosterone, but 4AD is very very closely related.

Jonesey,

Do you see a difference between a controlled study done by Doctors on a special group of people and what you are doing??

Also, do me a favor, post the links to these studies that you keep quoting please.

I would, but they are part of my subscription service, and they are PDF’s so I cant just copy paste. sorry. But if you have specific questions about the studies I can go look again.

Convenient. Perhaps others here have subscriptions also.

And change you signature.