Why gains slow!

Penismith, apologies for not responding earlier as I didn’t see the new post. I know we’ve had discussions about this since so I won’t go into detail. For everyone else, the basic idea was that I was doing a passive warmup while browsing the net or whatever, then only doing about 3 mins of stretching. I did that twice per week. Gains have finally stalled again, but I did make a 1/4”+ into new territory from my last break, and all without doing what I would call ‘damage’ to tissues. Time for another long wait until I can do it again and hopefully repeat the same kind of gains.

Straight8, there are some things on your list there that I hadn’t considered. I guess I have this skewed mind set that if it’s in the mainstream then we’d know about it by now. But I could be well off the mark there. My current reading in this area is about Thymosin beta-4.

Dudes listen up! Vitamin “C” at 1000mg is an aromatase inhibitor, Zinc at 50-100mgs also assist vit “C”

Too much beer or hard liquor can make a dud estrogenic.
However the red wines are also capable of blocking aromatase.
From DR. Shipman “The Testosterone Syndrome.”

Kingpole

This topic is addictive. I am afraid to get too into this before the school quarter ends.

I found this company that produces a prescription collagenase gel. It looks like it is mainly used for burn victims and bed sores but they are also in clinical trials for Peyronie’s Disease treatment. It looks interesting. Here is a link to one of their pages. Click around for more info.

http://www.bios pecifics.com/co … genase_why.html

Would restricted blood flow responses be a reason to shorten hanging sets and loosen up a little on the hanger?

This is a fascinating thread!
I read the first 10 pages and now the whole day has gone by.

Penismith: I tried DMSO saturated with vit C one day..

Penismith, how much C did you mix w/ DMSO? You were comfortable putting C in your member? I thought it was becoming consensus that we didn’t want to do that.

I dont know if this has come up, but has anyone experimented with ultrasound for reducing collagen? Supposedly there is some evidence for that. Perhaps the cavitation breaks up collagen mechanically. THis is what some physiotherapists believe anyway, and I think its worth investigating. I can post some links when I find time to dig them up if anyone likes.

Tube have you (or has anyone else) tried this collagenase product?
It is being used for Peyronie’s Disease, which according to this thread may make it quite applicable for PE!

Hi SkinneeD,

I saturated DMSO with it and then applied the solution liberally. I only tried this once or twice and didn’t notice any fading of discoloration. I did notice a strong garlic smell emanating from my body.

I have looked into ultrasound. I concluded that the cheap machines you can buy on ebay don’t have the power to do what we want. One would have to spend in excess of $1000 to get a suitable machine.

Collagenase products are intriguing. Do you have any studies to post on its efficacy in Peyronie’s treatment?

Cheers,
PS

No, but another interesting thing to look into may be this iontophoresis technique to help topical treatments absorb into the tunica. Dr. Mulhall from that one Cornell Urology sitetalks about it on peyronnesassoc.org He says:

Dr. Larry Levine from Chicago has shown very elegantly that the use of iontophoresis allows verapamil applied to the skin to be absorbed into the tunica albuginea. This is in direct contrast to the use of transdermal verapamil without iontophoresis, as it has been clearly shown that in this case no verapamil gets absorbed into the tunica albuginea and so most experts believe that regular transdermal verapamil has no chance of working. There is a small amount of evidence that iontophoretic delivery of verapamil may be of some benefit, however, the structure of the studies
to date preclude any definitive answer to the question (see section on this website regarding ‘interpreting the medical literature’). There is some debate among experts as to what the purpose of medical (non-surgical)
therapy is: is it to correct the deformity or is it to prevent it worsening? I would contend that the latter is more achievable that the former but there are some men who obtain an improvement in curvature with medical treatment. The bottom line is that the final answer is not known yet. Most importantly, transdermal verapamil is not dangerous. Verapamil is used primarily as a blood pressure agent so the rare man may have a slight drop in blood pressure but it is generally accepted to be a very safe agent. The only concern would be that if it is shown that it is not
effective that men may have been wasting time in ignoring other treatments.

PS,
could you explain why you were not worried about the introduction of vit C into the penis when there is so much concern about about even taking vitamin C during PE? There must be some biochemistry I am not aware of- does the DMSO break down the collagen and the vit C bind to it and wash it away by making it soluble? (in the simplest terms please!)

I dont have any more information on collagenase and Peyronies other than what I saw on the website for collagenase (http://www.bios pecifics.com/co … enase_uses.html ). I did just do a google search, here is one abstract, which looks inconclusive:

Collagenase for Peyronie’s disease experimental studies.

Gelbard MK, Walsh R, Kaufman JJ.

This pilot study was designed to test the feasibility of using purified clostridial collagenase in the clinical management of Peyronie’s disease. The basic properties of this agent are discussed. We studied its effect on Peyronie’s plaque tissue by a quantitative in vitro assay utilising the liberation of free alpha-amino groups as an index of enzymatic collagenolysis. Tissue from three patients with Peyronie’s disease was used. Tunica albuginea from a second group of three normal patients was studied in the same manner, and no selectivity for the collagen of Peyronie’s plaques was identified. Utilising human pericardium as a uniform collagenous substrate, a simple dose-effect relationship was established, and the distribution characteristics of injected collagenase observed. Its effects on blood vessels and nerves in vivo was determined as well as the effects of collagenase on the histology of normal and diseased human tissue in vitro. A tentative dose for use in Peyronie’s disease was established, which is discussed in light of existing toxicological data. The study was designed to test the feasibility of purified collagenase in the clinical management of Peyronie’s disease. Data included detail plaque digestion and dose-effect relationships in vitro, as well as the histological effects on plaques, blood vessels, and nerves in vivo and in vitro. It is concluded that collagenase may warrant further clinical testing in the treatment of Peyronie's disease.
(italics mine)

Regarding the ultrasound, that is probably a topic for another thread, but I have found continuous ultrasound devices on the web for ~$300. Apparantly continuous rather than pulsed US is used in therapy. So I wonder if applying US is feasible.
In fact on thhe site Tube mentioned for peyrones disease,
under non-surgical treatments , ultrasound is included:

8. OTHER NON-SURGICAL TREATMENTS FOR Peyronie’s disease

Radiation therapy
Ultrasound therapy
Lasers and carbide burrs
Nutriceuticals

Tube, those iontophoresis machines run pretty expensive.. THis site

gave a price between $500 and $1500 depending on the model. Probably a little steep especially since there’s no conclusive evidence it works?

I think the collagenase is prescription only, but there must still be ways to order it I imagine.

PS?

Another question- how long does this DMSO garlic stink last? Is it just breath or whole body odor?

If I remember correctly, about 8 hours. I like garlic but this was a little much for me.

When I did this experiment I was only interested in determining if the vit C would help speed up the fading of discoloration.

When puberty ends, why does the penis stop growing for all of us? Does it stop growing for all of us or does it continue to grow for a lucky few? The original mission of this thread was to learn why gains slow. We know a lot more now. I think that it is time to update this thread with the knowledge of our newer members and just maybe us old dogs have learned a new trick or two.

So what do you guys think? Does the penis stop growing at the end of puberty and why does that growth stop? And does it, always?

I found something of interest. Apparently, during puberty, the penis grows lengthwise before the girth increases.

“Genital Development Stage Pubic Hair Growth

1 Prepubertal; no pubic hair
Enlargement of scrotum and testes; reddening and change in texture in skin of scrotum; little or no penis enlargement.

2 Sparse growth of hair at base of penis. Increase first in length then width of penis; growth of testes and scrotum.

3 Darkening, coarsening and curling, increase in amount. Enlargement of penis with growth in breadth and development of glands; further growth of testes and scrotum, darkening of scrotal skin.

4 Hair resembles adult type, but not spread to medial thighs Adult size and shape genitalia 5 Adult type and quantity, spread to medial thighs.

Source: Data from Tanner JM. Growth at adolescence. Oxford: Blackwell Scientific Publications, 1962.”

“Testicular enlargement and change in scrotal coloring are the first signs of puberty among males,
usually occurring between 10.5 and 14.5 years of age (11.6 on average) during SMR stage 2
(Figure 2). The development of pubic hair is also observed during SMR stage 2. Testicular
enlargement starts between 9.5 and 13.5 years of age in most males (SMR 2 to 3), concluding
between the ages of 12.7 and 17 (SMR stage 5). Spermarche, or the onset of sperm production,
occurs at approximately age 14 among males. The onset of puberty among males is highly variable,
thus nutritional needs of male adolescents of the same chronological age are also highly variable.”

This thread help me to regain health, and not to pussyfoot around with anemia which translates into hypoxia and connective tissue disturbances and compromises.

I had developed iron deficient anemia due to renal insufficiency from taking a antibiotic Keflex that I had a allergic reaction too.

I thought of this thread often while laying in a hospital bed.

I do believe this thread may have helped in my recovery.

Not only is restrictive blood flow bad for the penis it is bad for everything else.