I have been diagnosed with Andropause by 789

I feel great. I am on a half dose right now because my testosterone level shot thru the roof and went up to 1500 on a top scale of a thousand, which caused polycetheravera (sp?), anyway which made me produce too many red blood cells and my blood thicken. The blood doc was going to treat me with blood letting (giving blood every week or so) but after I went off the t gel it went away, so Im on a half dose now and it seems to be working great.

Oh by the way, don’t take no for an answer. MAKE your doctor run a testosterone test on you, its part of the same bloodwork and doesnt require him to do anything other than take an extra vial of blood. Good luck.

Hey 789!!

Could I pest you one more time for some info/opinions/thoughts?? I saw my Dr. ,and after telling him all my symptoms, I still almost had to get on my knees and beg for him to order the blood test!! He said it was thyroid! Well, I had both tests done and the results came back today, Thyroid came back normal. Now, my Dr is out for a few weeks and I don’t have another appointment with him until march. My Testosterone came back at 243. There wasn’t very much detail, and that was all it said. On the other column it just said reference, 72-623 ng/dl. Can you shed some light on my number? Is it the same 200# you had? I know I don’t have much else to go on, but want to be ready when I see him again if that number is low, especially since I had such a hard time even getting him to order the test.

Your 243 is in the lower third of the scale your referring to. Mine was on a scale up to a 1000. He should be more responsive but a lot of doctors don’t believe in Andropause. Dig up paperwork on the internet and bring it to him. If he doesnt respond, find another doctor. I have a great doc but only because I go in to her fully informed and prepared for a fight. And she knows Ill order what I need off the internet if she doesnt at least listen to my concerns. She normally does and we come to a compromise.

Yeah, in most cases you would take it forever as I’ve never heard of a cure for low or declining T other than supplementing either directly or indirectly via nutrients.

Back a few years ago before they classified tetosterone as a narcotic, it was easily available on the net in injectible form… that is really effective.

My case is different, however. Apparently, I’ve always been T-challenged as evidenced by slow late puberty, low drive personality characteristics, shyness, etc. First day I injected was amazing. I started sparring verbally with the guys at work naturally and effortlessly instead of keeping quiet until I could plan something to say. T seemed to complete some connections in my brain. Now I am naturally more verbally assertive regardless of whether I have taken T recently or not.

Since testosterone is now a federal offense of the highest order, I have a prescription from my Dr. for a patch which I wear daily. Costs $15.00 a month on my insurance.

My total T reading was about 200 on a 250 to 900 scale. I supplement to about 500. Free T was similarly low. I used to wonder why I seemed so different in temperment from most guys, now I am sure it is my T endowment. My mother abused amphetamines when she was pregnant which could be the cause. Amphetamines are an estrogen “immitator”… chemically.

Yes, your lab’s scale is 72-623 for normal. So you are low normal. I was off scall low so the Dr. could not argue with my desire for supplementation. I quit taking pro-T herbs and stuff weeks before his test, but I had tested on the internet long before and knew what to suspect.

Drs. are quite often appalling ignorant about all this! Doctors are too often JUST gatekeepers for the system.

Propecia works by reducing testosterone!

There is a huge controversy about whether prostate enlargement/cancer is caused by excessive testosterone OR aromatisation of testosterone into excessive estrogen! If you believe theory #1, don’t take testosterone if you have prostate problems. There are substances that prevent aromitization of testosterone to estrogen.

It doesn’t reduce testosterone it reduces the conversation of testosterone to DHT because the DHT binds to the hair follicle , if anything you have to much free testosterone at that point it may turn to estrogen and give you tits.

Yes, oestrogen is formed from testosterone and the process is more likely to occur as you get older. Bit of a bummer actually — we make less testosterone and of that we do make, more is converted into oestrogen through a process known as aromatisation. Anyway, you can solve that — I have. In addition to Testosterone (gel), I take Arimidex (0.5 mg three times a week). It works a treat as evidenced by my 3-monthly blood tests.

My free testosterone levels are very high — commonly around 120 pmol/L (general acceptable range is 34.5 - 98 pmol/L), while my oestrogen (oestrodiol or oest-17 Beta)) levels are also at about 120 pmol/L (general acceptable range is 70-280 pmol/L). I dunno what these convert to in US imperial units, but the acceptable ranges show all that’s really necessary.

Free testosterone vs DHT vs estrogen is pretty confusing: (maybe the whole story is not known)

Propecia’s effects in detail
Propecia 1 mg tablets (AU)

DHT is a derivative hormone (metabolite) of testosterone that has been shown to be critical to the initiation and progression of follicular miniaturization and eventual destruction of hair follicles in male pattern baldness. DHT is a steroid hormone just like testosterone but with greater affinity for the androgen receptor. Converting testosterone to DHT thus increases many of its effects.

While the mechanism by which DHT is involved in hair loss is not confirmed, many dermatologists and research scientists specializing in hair loss believe DHT molecules may diffuse into the interior of hair follicle cells (the cytoplasm or cytosol) and bind with androgen receptors. This complex, both the receptor and the DHT molecule, then enters the nucleus of the cell. In the nucleus of the hair follicle cell this complex could then alter the rate of protein synthesis in men who are genetically predisposed.[21]

However, DHT also plays an important role in the functioning of the central nervous system (the brain), the testicles and prostate, and almost everything but muscle tissue. In muscle tissue, testosterone is the dominant hormone, which is why some bodybuilders inject testosterone derivatives to aid in muscular development.

* Propecia (and other products containing finasteride) causes a rise in testosterone levels, because testosterone that would normally be converted into DHT remains testosterone. Persistently higher levels of testosterone in the body could have negative psychological effects, such as impulsivity, aggression, irritability and depression.[22]

* Artificially low levels of DHT in the body could cause some unwanted conditions. DHT is an antagonist of estrogen. Men’s bodies also produce the female hormone estrogen in the adrenal glands, although this is just one-tenth of the estrogen that premenopausal women produce in their ovaries. By reducing DHT with drugs, a man’s protection from the effects of estrogen may also be reduced. This could result in gynecomastia.

* Even though both finasteride and dutasteride were developed to combat benign prostatic hyperplasia by reducing DHT in prostate tissue, some scientists question the wisdom of using these 5-alpha reductase inhibitors in younger men that have no problem with their prostates. A research chemist, Patrick Arnold, says “Evidence is mounting that the existence of a high estrogen/androgen ratio – a condition common in older men – is highly correlated with the development of benign prostatic hyperplasia”.[23] However, in apparent contradiction, individuals with 5-alpha-reductase deficiency (and thus a similar hormonal profile to users of DHT inhibitors) do not experience BPH.

Lloyd Again: I read that in France, DHT itself is available and taking it does not seem to cause bad effects attributed to DHT except baldness.

This thread has been great. I just started my replacement therapy yesterday with a shot from the doctor in my hip. He said it would take a couple of days to feel the change if there is one.