PE and Sexual Kung Fu

Zig, I would start the edging, stopping process sooner. I was basically saying, that after 20 minutes or more of this you can ride the edge with greater stimulation and basically no stopping.

Look at it this way; imagine a pail that after so much water is poured into it, it automatically tips. With this analogy, ejaculation is the point where the pail is so full it has to tip. No way to stop it, when the pail fills to that certain level it always tips. Consider this pail has a small hole in the bottom so if you stop pouring water in the pail it will slowly empty. This is what I call edging. Fill the pail up, stop, let some water drain out then begin filling again.

Now imagine you discover a way to siphon off some of the water as the water is still being poured in. Through breathing, relaxed face and body, pulling the energy up, tongue to the roof of the mouth, certain sounds, and other techniques you learn how to siphon water off. At first the water fills the pail faster than you can siphon it off unless you decrease or stop the incoming water. Then as you get better at siphoning you can increase the incoming water until you can basically siphon off the water as fast as you fill it.

This is the process I’m talking about that you work on over the 20 minutes or so. Maybe not right away, but after some time you will find that beyond 20 minutes or more, may be different for everyone, you reach the point where you can ride it just about continuously.

For me the solo cultivation is what I do so that when I’m practicing dual cultivation with my partner she can thrash all she wants on my cock and I can ride the energy and not have my pail tip, so to speak. If she wants 1,3,5 climaxes I can stay right with her. Maybe on her fifth one I agree to go with her or maybe not at all. That level of control is pretty sweet, not only for myself but also for my wife. For the most part I can go on indefinitely now. For me ejaculation is a matter of choice rather than an inevitability.

Now some guys seem to be able to do this without any conscious effort but I’m not one of them and I suspect most guys are like this. This is where books like “The Multi Orgasmic Male” and others have been very valuable for me. I still have a long way to go to master and experience much of the stuff Mantak Chia and others talks about but what I have experienced has really changed my sex life.

Solo cultivation allows you to completely control the process without having to deal with another person. Its much easier to slow down or stop your own hand when you need to than it is to make your partner do it.

As far as separating orgasm from ejaculation I have done some of that but not consistently, its like a whole other way to empty the pail. This I am still working on. For me mastering ejaculation comes first, then I work on separating out the orgasm. I suggest start with the ejaculation, get that down first, then work on the non-ejaculation orgasm.

Ive not found many men who want to master their ejaculations so when I find someone who is interested I cant help but jabber. I would have loved someone to talk with when I first started out.

Jabber away my friend, jabber away. :nodding:

So your saying it’s best during self cultivation, to get to the point where the bucket/pail is nearly full, so that you get used to syphoning off the energy? I see what you mean, but take in to account that if I want, I can fill that bucket :) in minute, or less if I want to.

That’s pretty quick. I think it’s pretty important for me to retrain that tendency. So part of this for me is about taking (I started to write ‘wasting’ instead of ‘taking’. Freudian slip?) my time. So that the bucket doesn’t fill so quickly up direct stimulation.

I think we all can fill the bucket pretty fast if we want. Clearly if the bucket is about to tip the urgency to draw off energy is greater or you’ll have to stop. I think its better to work more in the middle and circulate energy from there. Master the middle range and then work up to more intense energy.

Try this. Self stimulate at a rate that would slowly bring you to ejaculation if you kept it up. Practice with this level until it no longer brings you to the edge. Once you master this level then up it a little until you master that one and so on. Its doing this that I think you will notice it gets easier after 20 minutes or so.

Don’t be frustrated if it takes time. Ive been working on it for years to get where I am now. Figure it like the amount of time it takes to grow a larger unit, years.

My observation is that the wife has enjoyed the mastery over ejaculation and energy flow more than she has enjoyed the increase in my size. Not to say that she hasn’t enjoyed my size increase as well but her response to the sexual kung fu has been greater. She went from wanting sex 1 to 2 times a week to wanting it every day, and we’ve been together 25 years have two kids and a business to run. That’s why I think the two together, PE and sexual kung fu pack a powerful punch.

Keep it up the work Zig, it will pay off. I don’t know if you’re with a woman now but if and when you are I’ll guarantee she’ll notice and appreciate you sexually that much more.

Oh, I just ordered this book and it suppose to be arrived on 10 May. How is the book? did you learn anything from it?

I think the book has a lot of good stuff in it provided your interested in circulating energy, ejaculation control, dual cultivation and non-ejaculatory orgasms. For those that think all this stuff is hocus pocus then this is the wrong book. For those that want to work on the energy side of sex it a valuable book.

When I get into something I like all the information I can get. There are two other books I learned a lot from, “The Tao of Health, sex, and longevity”. The only part of this book I worked with was the sex part. The other book is “The Taoists Secrets of Love, Cultivating Male Sexual Energy”. I consider this one the most advanced of the three. “The Tao of Health, Sex, and Longevity” is a good overall intro and beginners book. Its the one I recommend for anyone just starting out on this path. I put ” The Multi Orgasmic Man” in the middle of the two.

Something interesting: My libido appears to have dropped off a bit, along with, as far as I can tell nocturnal wood. I haven’t been waking up with a boner recently. One thing I have noticed in the past is that, strangely, when I’m not ejaculating as much, I get less frequent, and less strong erections: the more I’m jerking off, and ejaculating, the more erections, and hornier I get.

As well as the fact that I have been ejaculating less recently, due to my sex kf practice, I have be wet jelqing (well within reason: 150 strokes) and trying out quite a vigorous stretch: straight up, cranking it left and right about forty times then straight down for forty.

The stretch is quite vigorous, but I don’t see that it would have that much affect.

Anyway, I’ve had 3 edging sessions since I last posted about this.

For the first one I had trouble getting hard for some reason, and this led to me confirming something for myself that I already suspected quite strongly: that stronger erections make cumming quickly less likely. While I was jerking off with this constantly flagging erection, I was feeling all too quickly the trigger/twitch/spasm to shoot which has got very little orgasmic pleasure.

I can’t remember to well but I think, I just stopped for awhile after the peaks of sensation in my dick where coming closer and closer together when the journey over the edge of ‘no return’ was almost imminent.

Second one: I got myself quite hard and was rhythmically jerking off well below the point where one starts to get that rush of sensation that means orgasm is approaching apace. This is another thing I’ve discovered: That for me I tend to go from wanking comfortably with little sensation at all, to experiencing sensation that is difficult to handle, very quickly. There doesn’t seem to be much middle ground. Anyway, after about 10-15 minutes, I started to hit the peaks, then stop and pinch, or just stop for awhile and start again. They got closer and closer together, and before I new it, the sensation became too much for me and I went over the edge. I clamped down really hard on my PC muscle, and had to arch my back and clench my face and fists, but I did manage to hold onto it. I think I may have had another retrograde ejaculation, because a small dribble of cum made it out. One bonus was that even though I was going limp afterwards, when I pressed my sweet spot with my finger I felt the rise in sensation towards another orgasm, but for some reason it didn’t go all the way.

Most recently, last night: I stayed at low sensation level for quite awhile, and by about 15 minutes I started to hit the approaching point of no return involuntarily. So I did the whole stop start thing again and again, until eventually I went over the edge and had to clamp the PC again. As I was clamping for all I was worth, I tried to cycle the energy, by clamping my anus and trying to ‘Draw’ upwards. Not sure I succeeded in this, and made me loose control of my PC clamp, and one streak of cum shot out across my belly. Though I think I must have ejaculated retrograde a bit as well.

That’s it really. It’s difficult for me to post here at the moment, because I’ve moved in with a couple of friends, and I think they’ll get suspicious if I start deleting the search history. So I’m in Internet cafes again. :(

Another thing I’ve noticed is that I don’t I’m not breathing properly when I masturbate. I also noticed that if I do the breathing thing early on in the masturbation process, it helps me stay calm. If I do it later on it seems to bring about orgasm, and consequently ejaculation, quicker.

Great to hear your thoughts, fellow practitioners!

Last night:

Manually stimulated myself to a full erection, and and then continued to masturbate in the usual pumping fashion. Concentrated on breathing, staying relaxed, and building sensation slowly over a longer period of time. Also tried gripping lower down the shaft and masturbating that way; the idea being to build sensation in other parts of my penis, rather than focusing on the sweet spot.

This time when I started to flirt with the ‘edge’ of orgasm I decided that instead of trying to go back and forth from the ‘edge’ and then clamp down with my PC muscle when I felt myself going over, I decided I would experiment with pressing the ‘million dollar point’.

So after hitting the edge a few times, I decided to let myself orgasm. As soon as I started to feel the quickening approach of full orgasm, I pressed in hard on where I thought my ‘million dollar point’ was. The result at first seemed to be and extended orgasm, without the involuntary pumping of the PC muscle. My body was rocking back and forth, and eventually I started contracting and shot out one long jet of semen on my belly. It may be note worthy that a large proportion of this ejaculate was clear; maybe someone can enlighten me as to what may have happened here.

Hitting that ‘million dollar point’ was pretty darn awkward I must say. I’m fairly stocky, and my arms aren’t short, but they’re not that long. The only way I could reach it comfortably was straight down pass my genitals. Wouldn’t want to have to do it during sex.

I’ve got to say I can’t really see the wood for the trees, so to speak, at this early juncture of my training. I’m pretty sure that the increase in sensitivity a fleshlight would introduce would really help at the moment. Certainly in observing the subtler builds in sensation.

Any advice or observations from more experienced practitioners at this point would be duly appreciated.

Just been reading Werner Ashford’s thread. Some very useful advice in there that I will start applying to my training.

I popped into a sex shop the other day and bought some lube.

My libido has still been pretty low, but I’ve been plowing ahead with the training anyway. First session with the lube I was having trouble stimulating myself to a full erection. I think that’s partly the libido thing, and that my imagination wasn’t stimulated by anything; not that I usually use porn for masturbating, because my imagination is usually vivid enough.

I think it’s partly to do with how my masturbation style is changing. Before, I would start tugging quite firmly on my dick, then holding the skin tightly so that it slides up and down my shaft, and pumping my fist between medium fast to very fast, until my sweet spot was stimulated enough and I would orgasm/ejaculate response. Sometimes the ejaculate response would almost be before the orgasm. Sometimes it would be an ejaculate response without hardly any orgasm at all. Though often I would have quite powerful orgasm.

I had found that sometimes when I was really, mentally horny, but not erect, I would tug furiously on my flaccid penis, so that I would come before I was even fully erect, on a couple of occasions not even semi-erect.

So I think you can see that my style was quite forceful and rough, as I imagine a lot of guys’ techniques are.

This could go towards explaining why I find it really difficult to stay hard when using lube and gliding over my shaft in a more real simulation of sex.

I’m also fairly sure that my wet jelqing has affected the sensitivity of my lower shaft, so I’m going to have to knock that on the head for awhile, and stick to some stretching and maybe dry jelqing, because I don’t think that the dry jelqing is as deadening to the nerves.

Anyway I’ve used the lube for the last three sessions, the last two being the most successful, in terms of me staying hard and reacting to the subtler sensations. Also I seem to be taking longer once erect to get into a fully aroused state, and also I think I’m slowly building the amount of time I can keep pumping while near to the edge, if you see what I mean, therefore enjoying the heightened sensations for longer.

I have shot my load the last three times, but that I suppose is inevitable when I’m experimenting.

I can’t afford my Fleshlight at the moment, but I really think that the next step is to be using something softer than my hand, also using my pelvis to pump into something instead of pumping myself with my hand or a Fleshlight or whatever.

Gotta get some other lube too, this stuff is too damn sticky.

Last night:

Went to bed. Not horny, and pretty tired. Still, I managed to stimulate myself to a full erection (a lot firmer since I’ve laid off the wet jelqing, and stuck to some moderate stretching. Not seeing any gains for awhile, but that’s another story).

Gently pumping my fist and rubbing the sides and base to try to stimulate the whole penis, and not just the sweet spot. Without lube this time. Relaxed, and breathing steadily. Thinking about kissing and touching as well as penetration. I took my time to build in sensation. Pumping my fist slower and faster for quite a long time, though I wasn’t timing myself.

Eventually the sensitivity and build in sensation (rush of feeling in shaft from sweet-spot all the way down to balls, PC area, anus, and a fair bit of body sensation. I continued to go to the edge, stop and squeeze just below the glans and frenelum. Wait for a little while. Start again before my cock started to go soft. Pumping my fist, trying to stimulate the whole cock, and not just the sweet spot.

Eventually the peaks were very close together, and I could hardly touch my cock without feeling a rush towards the point of no return.

What happened next is quite an interesting development:

I would very lightly grip my cock with just the tips of my fingers, and continue to pull the skin up and down over the shaft, so that I was riding literally the very edge before the point of no return, without any decrease in sensation (practically orgasm), but without going over the edge. This was an extremely delicate situation that I managed to perpetuate for roughly a minute, after some time into that minute it felt almost as if I was having a very subtle and very long orgasm.

After this I stopped stimulating myslef, without having ejaculated, and waited (for some time) for my rock hard erection to subside.

I then lay in bed, and breathed deeply, and felt my whole body buzzing for quite awhile, before falling asleep. I didn’t feel frustrated as one might imagine feeling, though the sensation is not the same as having ‘released’ through orgasm. Maybe it’s better. I’m not sure at the moment.

I think I fell asleep very fast as I was exhausted from a very physical days work. I can imagine that I wouldn’t have fallen asleep very quickly after this session if I was less physically tired.

A seemingly retrograde step taken in my practice.

Last night I began the edging session and moved past the slow build of sensation quite quickly to the point of ejaculation.

The ‘edge’ wasn’t so much defined by orgasm as by just the quick, almost automatic, ejaculation mechanism ie. the trigger to ejaculate was experienced with very little build of sensation. I would instead describe this ejaculate trigger like small electrical pulses that cause the muscle spasms that release semen.

In last night’s case, having rushed quite quickly to this point, I felt the quick spasms, and stopped. However a small amount of a ejaculate made it out. I repeated this a couple of times, and then with a full release of semen, came the feeling of orgasm.

Not a particularly satisfactory session. Actually more than a little annoying as I felt I was making progress and this feels like a step backwards. Maybe it could be seen as useful in that I’m beginning to be able to experience for myself the seperateness of ejaculation and orgasm.

Nobody has comented for quite a while. It would be really good to hear from somebody more experienced in SKF at this point.

Well Zig, I know the feeling.

You think your riding the horse, next thing you know your face down in the dirt. Cant tell you how many times I thought I was getting the hang of it and then I would slip over the edge into an ejaculation

I cant speak for others but from my experience it takes years, not weeks or months. I think this is what makes it too much work for most guys, the benefits aren’t fast enough.

I think what helped me persevere was I could see the incremental results of my solo practice when I had sex with my wife. This helped me keep inspired and at it.

Do you have a partner you can work with?

Hi Ziggaman, I’m pretty much exercising like you, and it’s encouraging to see that I’ve got pretty much the same effects that I read in your posts. I’m seeing some results while making love with my girlfriend, but I’m far from having the control of the whole thung. Yesterday I had a pretty long and wild love session with my girlfriend, it was really awesome and we had a very strong orgasm together, but I feel like today it could be different. What I feel I’m learning by now it’s not the ability to thrust hard for longer periods (or at least just a little bit), but I’m learning to manage myself knowing better and better my reaction times. I edged on and off for some time now, lately being pretty consistent, but now I want to add meditation once a day for fifteen minutes a day, a thing that I’ve done for a period months ago and that gave me a really big help in controlling ejaculation.

One thing I’d like to ask you and Tsuga that seems to be much more experienced than us, is if you do also any exercises other than edging.

Great! I’m glad to see you guys chipping in! :nodding:

Can’t reply right now, but will do as soon as I get the chance.

Unfortunately I don’t have a partner at the moment.

Now that I’ve decided I will never again masturbate as quickly as possible towards ejaculation, or until I’ve got mastery over these functions, I have found that I just don’t masturbate anywhere nearly as much.

I suppose that because I am now aware that my masturbation sessions need to take up more time, I’m less inclined to do it. Obviously I need now to be diciplined in order to progress. Although I imagine that just the fact that I will not rush again in the masturbating process is an important psychological step. Maybe.

What inspires me is the thought of being a masterful lover that women will talk about, and never forget. And of course to give incredible pleasure.