Are gains permanent?

I know we all know they are not the same. The problem is that the analogy is a very poor one, instead of making things simpler it misleads.

The reasons for performing a maintenance routine are different in PE than they would be in bodybuilding. People who hang, for example, seem to rarely need any sort of maintenance. People who pump seem to. People who clamp seem to not. It’s not as simple as some people here seem to be making it out to be. There is an argument that some forms of PE do not need a maintenance program after gains are “cemented.”

Please read the forum guidelines about posting manners, as well. Unlike UpTo7, you seem to not realize we discuss here for constructive reasons, not to destruct or hurt each other in any way.

I realize your point is that the body adapts according to stimuli, UpTo7. I agree with you. That is the entire reason PE works, we stimulate the body and it CAN adapt. The issue here is, how much and how quickly can it un-adapt (devolve)? Can new collagen links disappear…particularly when one has gained 1-2 inches (as in hanging)? I do not think so.

On the other hand, can erection quality and smooth muscle health degenerate so much that they could cause a significant amount of those hanging gains to disappear, only to reappear within weeks once the person returns to hanging or jelqing? Yes. There are reports of this on several hanging forums, for example.

Since I have not provided my view, I have to say that I do not know. But, my theory is that smooth muscle work, in comparison to tunica/ligament stretching, requires more maintenance. The odd thing is that clampers, in particular, seem to not need much maintenance (refer to Big Girtha’s break for example). It’s really quite complicated. Many pumpers seem to lose a LOT of gains (as in inches) once they stop a maintenance routine (supersizeit’s first post here is a good example - although others have not lost despite long periods of no pumping, the differing factor here seems to be the combination of other PE).

I tend to agree. Saying bodybuilding and PE are different doesn’t means that any rules (law?) that applies to bodybuilding can’t apply to PE - this is a phallacy.

As for the specific point of permanence of gains, I do believe that some of the gains PEers have is like muscle elasticity and range of motion and ‘pumped’ look: a bodybuilder can gain several inches in a short time with an high reps, short rest routine, but it isn’t real mass - similarly, a PEer can gain several inches with vacuum pumping (done at not wisely manner), but most of these gains will disappear because are just due to fluids.

Other gains are due to decreased stiffness of penile tissues: this is similar to increased range of motion due to a stretching regimen hand in hand with a weigth training routine. I think a good part of gains achieved by hangers is due to viscoelastic properties of collagenous tissue.

So, why those gains will not disappear if one stops hanging?
First point, there are hangers who lose their gains when stop hanging.
Second point, think for analogy: if you increase range of motion in your hamstring doing a stretching routine 3 times per week, than go stretching just one time per week, will you lose your ROM? Mostly not. That’s the same with hangers’ gains in PE: as long as they have regular erections they keep their gains.

While sleeping, a healthy man have erections, more intense than diurnal erections: this will stretch penis to his max actual size (‘penis range of motion’, to mantain the analogy). So I think those who lose their gains when stopping PE :
a) had abrupt gains, so once the stimuli stops tissues will be put back to previous length due to elasticity of tissue;
b) don’t have regular max erections neither regular nocturnal erections: this could be caused by several factors, for example depression or anti-anxiety medicines, by what I have heard.
c) a combination of a) and b).

Finally, there is real growth, due to new created tissue. This kind of gains are the more permanent, but I doubt they will last forever if the body ‘see’ this new tissue as unuseful for a long time - ‘use it or lose it’ works even here, on a longer span of time (at least this is my guess).

So, there are gains more or less durable, but no gains are really permanent in the human body, that’s what I think.

Mybad fellas. I was a little “out of it” the other day.

Another great post from you Marinera just wish you got in here sooner to keep everyone from biting each others heads off. A simple answer is tissue deformation over (I think this is the correct number if not its really close) 5.14% is thought to be permanent.

I have gained permanent added size but there is always a bigger measurement I can hold on to as long as I am doing PE such as hanging so you will always be losing something when you stop.