How soon after using my extender tension instrument

Hmmmm. It seems to me that when I read those studies that they gained 1.8cm in erect length, and also flaccid length.

Dtwarren1942 — Did you see my hyperlink above? Your results confirm the article that I posted, except it suggested it’ll on average take 1,000-1,200 hours. Man, I hope to God it’s closer to 1,000 hours for me, but I will take 1,500 hours if that’s what it takes. On the flip side, I was also thinking that maybe it’s better to focus on percentage gain. For example, If your penis is 4 inches long, and you gain 1 inch, that’s a 25% gain. Wow!! Outstanding. But if your 8 inches long, and gain 1 inch, that’s only 12.5% gain. So it seems logical to me that if the average gain of 1/2 inch is actually 25% gain after 1,200 hours of extender use, a 4 inch penis will grow to 5 inches and an 8 inch penis will grow to 10 inches. So my theory goes that a person that starts off with a larger dong will show quicker results in inches.

So, dtwarren1942, would you mind posting your percentage gain? And perhaps anyone else that would like to post theirs, that’d be great for the rest of us to have more realistic expectations.

My BPEL increased from 5.5” to 6” (9%). My flaccid stretched length in the extender went from 5.5” to 6.5” (18%). I have read several studies and they have always studied only flaccid and stretched lengths. I have never come across a study involving erect length increases. I was toled by others that erect gains are too hard to study because EQ is too inconstant to allow for accurate measurements.

C-Dog, I have read the link and I am also a member of PEGym where there has been a lot of discussions on the extender studies.

Yeah I hear ya. I’ve also read studies whereby the extender has helped with flaccid length, but not erect. However I’m sure I read a study that did conclusively show an increase in erect length also. I really don’t care about flaccid length, only erect. It seems to me that if you could stretch your penis further over time due to the extender, for instance from 6.5” to 7”s, that there would be a correlation to erect length. I just don’t know what the relationship would be. I’ll have to do another search and find that study that showed gains in erect length, and save it to my favorites & post it here. If I don’t get any BPEL from the extender, it’s really not worth my time and I’ll have to find something else.

There is a strict correlation, actually. Don’t be surprised they measure stretched length in studies, it is common practice among urologists to guage that and just suppose that stretched length is the same than EL.

This guy gained 2/5" in EL wearing the extender 553 hours
marinera - L’avventura di Fallotrix con l’extender

I gained about the same with the same amount of hours, if my memory isn’t playing a tricks.

This
My gains (start 1-1-2007)

is another good personal report on extender.

We can’t swear anything in PE will work for everybody, but definitely most of people seems to gain with extenders. Hours required will vary a lot from a guy to another, though.

marinera - L’avventura di Fallotrix con l’extender

My stretched length is about 1/2 inch more than my EL. I wonder if that’s because when getting a full stretch, the shaft narrows (like a rubber band); and so when the shaft thickens as it gets erect, it takes a little off the length. Hmm?? I’d be curious to know the correlation of stretched length to EL, and the correlation of, let’s say, adding 1 inch to the stretched length correlates as a percentage to an increase in EL. I would think there’d be some sort of correlation.

Yes, for most of people girth will take some of the length, given the shape of the penis.

If your BPFSL has grown, your BPEL has to grow too; if this doesn’t happens, I see only two odds : 1) your EQ is too low; 2) your girth has grown a bit (although it could be hard to measure), taking some of the added length.

I’ve been pondering the correlation of stretched tension to length gains, and what is the optimal tension for best results. There seems to be strong support on both sides of the less-is-more and more-is-more discussions throughout various threads. Some believe keeping the tension at a (let’s say) reduced level, not excessive, will actually be more effective at getting permanent gains (without build up of scar tissue), and the other side suggests increasing the tension as much as possible without causing pain, yet still comfortable, will get the most gains (the penis is remarkable at repairing itself & tissues remain healthy). I”m no expert, and don’t pretend to be. I’m summarizing here, and those in the know may want to correct my wording, but hopefully I’m in the ballpark.

There are a few things that are confusing me. When the penis is stretched, are there spaces between the cells, and if so, are those spaces being filled with collagen or new cells? The manufacturers suggest that stretching promotes cell division, thereby generating more cells, and a bigger penis. I’ve also read that the stretching may be creating gains by generating scar tissue which can’t be good for EQ. If stretching isn’t continued, this scar tissue could over time eventually shrink the penis. I’ve also wondered (another theory) whether the cells don’t actually divide, but just get bigger. Then there’s the argument whether keeping a permanent stretch (using an extender) for hours at a time works better, or manually stretching works better (or both equally). And lastly, regardless of what actually is happening to cause the penis to gain, what is the best tension setting on an extender to use that won’t generate scar tissue, but promote healthy permanent growth and strong EQ?

X4 Labs has an instructional CD that says to start off at about 800g, and over weeks or couple months, to work yourself up to around 2800g which will allow the penis to acclimate to increase in tension. That is the regimen that I’ve followed. I assumed the manufacturers are thoroughly versed in penis enlargement theories, and that for whatever reasons, they adopted the theory of cell division. Now I’m not so sure about that, based on many members contributions of other viable theories.

So now I’m perplexed. Should I continue keeping my tension setting at 2400g, or drop the tension down? I don’t feel any pain at 2400 (just a solid tug) and my EQ has been strong (if not stronger) since I’ve been using the extender. Ultimately, there doesn’t seem to an absolute authority, and perhaps that’s why the medical community advocates “there isn’t such a thing as penis enlargement.” However, our community in Thundersplace seems to think, “Yes there is such a thing, in fact take a look at our results.”

Oh, one more thing. Sorry to ramble. My goal is to gain EL, not Flaccid. The studies I’ve read show gains in Flaccid length, and only extrapolate there must be gains in EL too. What the heck!! Are these scientists crazy? Of course we want to see gains in EL, and what kind of study wouldn’t incorporate it somehow into their stats?

During my visit to the urologist he told me that smooth muscle cells can not divide but can only get bigger. Similar to a bicep or other muscle that expands. Now I don’t know if what he says is of course true (guessing it is since he is a doctor and all), but he also did not believe EL could be improved with an extender. However, members here on Thunders say they have gained in EL.
And the correlation between flaccid stretched and EL others in this thread talked about makes sense to me.

What I don’t understand is then if cells can only get bigger, then how come those scientific studies measured again 6 months after the use of the extenders were terminated and saw no decrease in length? Surely if a cell gets bigger because of the tension, when you stop applying tension to it it will shrink to a lesser size? Much like when you build a big bicep but stop training you will eventually lose (some of) what you gained.

Charliedog, where have you read that the tension can create scar tissue and can eventually shrink the penis?

There are many, many threads on here about extenders.

To answer some of your questions: it is highly unlikely that an extender can cause scarring and certainly scarring is not the process gains are based on. It’s also unlikely that hypertrophy is the main process involved - connective tissue similar to TA doesn’t become longer through hypertrophy (although it can undergo hypertrophy, but this a way it becomes stronger, something you don’t want).

Cellular proliferation in connective tissue is seen with any degree of stretch - meaning that there isn’t a minimal amount of force that starts cellular proliferation (I know, it seems it doesn’t makes sense). There are other way connective tissue adapts to mechanical forces - extracellular matrix rearrangement, viscoelastic changes, fibrillogenesis - so without a biopsy is about impossible to say which one is the responsible for gains.

About tension: I see you have your views, you believe more tension means faster gains, at some degree. I don’t want to push my opinion, just I’ll give you a fact: the old penimaster could only reach a max tension of 1,250 grams and manifacturers suggested never use such a high tension because counterproductive. People using that device had the same gains that people using latest ‘super strong’ extender report. We have a very long thread here on the penimaster, you can give a read.

I myself used a homemade device similar to the max-xtender (on which there are many threads as well) which doesn’t gauge the tension at all and just relies on this principle: hold your penis at a given length for enough time, and it will become longer. Guess what, it has worked just fine.

This doesn’t means that using higher tension will not give you gains; what will likely happen, instead, is that you’ll have gains but your tissue will also strengthen. Let me ask : you are near the max tension your device can provide. If more tension is the key, where are you going once you are at max tension?

alik - I think marinera pretty much answered the first part of your question. As far as what happens to a cell’s size months after the use of an extender, that’s assuming the cell’s size actually did increase, I can only speculate. Perhaps marinera has an answer to that. I can relate to your analogy of a muscle cell (bicep). The human penis is made up of three types of tissue. It has two corpora cavernosa (special pieces of muscle) next to each other and a corpus spongiosum (spongy muscle) between them. And then there is the Glans. Although they’re considered muscle cells, they don’t function like a bicep muscle. Therefore, you can’t build penis muscle as you could a bicep, as I’m sure you already know this. So, assuming the PE exercises & stretching in some manner can make these cells bigger, it seems to me that as long as you have sex (erections) on some sort of frequency, I would think that would be enough to maintain there size. I believe the exercises & stretching are mostly needed to gain size, while erections should be enough to maintain size. Much easier to maintain, than to gain, even in body building. So there’s my 2 cents. marinera, you’re welcomed to chime in LOL :)

As far as tension creating scar tissue, all I meant by that is that doing any exercise or stretching exercise that actually causes injury to the cells will, as I understand, cause blood clots. After the blood clots, the body then sends in fibroblasts, a type of cell that helps rebuild skin tissue. These cells break down the clot and start replacing it with proteins, primarily collagen, that make up scar tissue. Though both scar tissue and normal skin are made with these collagen proteins, they look different because of the way the collagen is arranged. In a normal cell, the collagen proteins overlap in many random directions, but in scar tissue, they generally align in one direction. This makes the scar have a different texture than the surrounding skin. Scar tissue is also not as flexible as normal skin, and does not have a normal blood supply. As a result, scar cells should not be able to expand with blood when the penis is excited. I believe this is how peyronies disease can potentially form, and if bad enough, can cause curvature of the penis. To summarize, I’m not saying stretching or using an extender by any means causes scar tissue; only that if they cause an injury, scar tissue can result.

So, my theory was that by increasing the tension to a higher, yet safe level that won’t cause injury, the gains may potentially come quicker. My analogy would be to that of bodybuilding. A more intense work out, more frequent work outs (with adequate rest) that’s done safely without injury, within the limits of your body (assuming proper diet, etc…) will build muscle faster. Again, this is only a theory of mine. I could be wrong. Perhaps the penis doesn’t need an intense work out to gain faster. Perhaps an intense penis work out may only work against you, and it will quickly adapt in ways that may actually inhibit gains. I’m just not sure.

What’s the best tension setting for an extender? 800g, 1000g, 1250g, 1800g? I don’t know. I was going by X4 labs which I understood was a reputable, highly regarded manufacturer of extenders. There literature suggest higher tension can promote quicker gains. They also highly recommend that you start with a low tension setting, like 800g, and slowly build up to around 1400g (don’t recall exact nr). If you get the stronger springs, the tension can be set as high as 2100g (approx). Their literature doesn’t suggest you set the tension that high, but interestingly enough, I’m not sure why their product would allow for that setting, especially if it could lead to injury. That’s a lawsuit in the wake. I digress. So, what I’ve personally done is start at 800g, and over a couple months have worked up to 1400g. Although I could set it higher (gluttening for punishment HAHA), I don’t plan to exceed 1400g now that I don’t have any conclusive data suggesting it’ll increase my gains. If anything, based on marinera’s comments, may reduce the tension down to penimaster’s maximum suggest tension setting of 1250. However I’m still not convinced enough to lower the setting any lower than that. If anyone would like to help convince me why I should lower the tension to 1250 or lower, please do. I’m amenable to suggestions, and that’s why I’m here.

Smooth muscle can grow in number for sure, just google ‘smooth muscle hyperplasia’. Anyway, this would be pretty much no point for the penis, since the role of smooth muscles is just to relax so more blood can fill them; what is limiting the expansion of CC is TA, which is like a tendon. We have to enlarge TA to increase size.

I was trying to edit my last, but exceed the 10 minute timeline. So guess I have to leave my wording, phrasing, spelling as is. ;)

Sorry for my ignorance. Please remind me, what is CC & TA?

C D, breaking cells in connective tissue doesn’t cause blood clots at all, as far as I know; neither breaking cells cause scar tissue. Scar tissue in connective tissue is seen only after grad I sprains, which means pretty much disrutpion of the tissue. Less severe damage don’t cause scar tissue at all.

The analogy with boby-building is completely wron too. I collected a good amount of research about connective tissue here
Loading, lengthening, healing.

if you are interested in this kind of things you could give it a read. I can guarantee you an head ache. ;)

HA HA!!! You’re already giving me a headache. Argh!!! :)

My resource for scar tissue came from wikipedia, but it explained how scar tissue is formed in the skin. So I extrapolated that to penile tissue because peyronies is basically cause by buildup of scar tissue that cause penis curvature. It would be helpful to understand how scar tissue can form in the penis so as a preventive measure.

I started to read that yesterday, and yes, a headache was erupting. HA HA. One thing I was perplexed about was how a rat tendon relates to muscle tissue in the penis. I thought the only tendon in the penis was the strand on top that helps support an erection. Does the rat tail study about stretching rat tendons relate to stretching the fibrous envelope that holds or surrounds the corpus cavernosum? I ask because if so, by stretching the fibrous envelope outwardly to get a permanent gain, seems only logical that this would cause a gain in girth. Stretching, or Extending, on the other hand will stretch the fibrous envelope length wise, resulting in a gain of length. So, if that’s the case, the theory on tension applied through extending (etc types of techniques) should also apply to exercises for girth.