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Loading, lengthening, healing.

Loading, lengthening, healing.

The topic of this thread is the “never make your penis heal or it will be shorter” theory.

It’s the most accredited theory among hangers, and you may know I have spoken about that in many threads.
It involves not only the way the penis is supposed to grow longer/larger, but also the “rest-days or not” debate.

Now I want to examine it again in this dedicated thread. Of course, it would be unrealistic to hope that here we’ll reach any conclusive point, but at least we can stock in one place the best argues of both parties.

Both parties also have smart people; I could be wrong, but even mods have different opinions on this subject. Of course, everybody is the welcome here posting their ideas on this subject. The debate will likely become pretty hot, but this is no bad, if we can go respective.

So said, let’s start.

The theory I’m referring to says: “You have to stretch/hang for many hours a day, avoiding rest, because rest will let your connective tissue healing in a shortened (or not elongated) state. Adversely, loading your penis hour after hour, day after day, your penis will become weaker, so it would be easily stretched, so it would heal in a elongated state”.

If I’m doing any mistake resuming that theory, feel free to correct me.

The anecdotal evidence that this theory is wrong is known by everyone here: how could, those who adopted a manual based routine, have gains? Near nobody does manual stretches for 3+ hours/day.

bennett8 and my Italian friend lallo were doing basically a stretches-only routine of about 30’/day , and they reported length gains of 2” or more, sustaining their claims with not photo-shopped-pics, according to the experts of fakes pics.

So, I want to talk of the theoretic side of that theory.

The first point to note, is the assumption that after stretching/hanging, the connective tissue is in someway injured. This is an unsupported hypothesis, as far as I know. I never found that applying a load to connective tissue results always in some sort of injury. It depends on the amount of load.

Let’s suppose, however, that the above assumption was true : why repeating stress (hanging/stretching) again and again, to avoid the healing process and to weakening more and more the penis? It’s not logical at all. If the goal is producing the max elongation and let the penis heal in elongated state, what they should promote is: “Use a so high load to produce the max possible injury, and then let your penis heal while using an extender/ADS”. This would save an enormous amount of time.
But, said in those terms, the theory appears to be an absurdity - as it is.

The second point is: applying a load to the weakened penile structure, you get way more elongation, hour after hour, day after day.
I think here the supporters of that theory are confusing elastic behavior with permanent changes.

As we know, there aren’t useful studies specifically referring to penile tissue and effects of loads; given that tunica albuginea is pretty similar to connective tissue, we have to read at something similar but a bit more scientifically studied : tendons and ligs. Let’s see:

Load-Strain Behavior
In a typical load-strain, stress-relaxation experiment a curve is obtained of the
type shown diagrammatically in Fig. 5. The tendon is stretched at a predetermined
rate to the desired strain, thus producing the load-strain curve
shown at the left. The tendon is then maintained at this particular strain and
measurements of the load are continued, resulting in the stress-relaxation
curve shown at the right.

Fig. 6 shows a characteristic sequence of tendon load-strain curves. All
these were made with the same tendon. In each case the tendon was extended
at the same constant rate but to different extensions. After each extension
the tendon was unloaded and rested in a slack condition whereupon its
original length was fully recovered, except as noted below. This recovery
process in all cases took no longer than 10 minutes. The sequence begins with
curve A which represents a strain of only 2.5 per cent. After a rest the tendon
was stretched again, and, as shown in curve B, the behavior exactly follows
that of curve A. If the strain does not exceed approximately 4 per cent, this
load-strain behavior is reproducible through an indefinite number of cycles.
The Mechanical Properties of Rat Tail Tendon


Another interesting observation connected with the load-strain studies is
that the tendon wave pattern (as described in the previous section) always
returns after each extension so long as the safe limit is not exceeded. Once
this limit is passed, however, as in stretches C-F of Fig. 6, the wave disappears
and never returns. Thus tendons stretched past the safe limit have a small
permanent extension corresponding to the straightening of the wave pattern
(this residual extension should not be confused with that resulting from the
“conditioning stretch” described earlier).


(Same source.)
The “conditioning stretch” mentioned, is the permanent elongation of the tendon the first time it’s exposed to that unusual stretch. It’s about 0.6%, and after the first time this effect is no more reproducible.

An increase in the rate of straining does not significantly alter the shape of
the reproducible region of the load-strain curve. The main effect is an increase
in the load required to produce a given strain. An average of seven determinations
(at a rate of straining of 10 per cent/minute) of the maximum
slope of the load-strain curve yields a value for the Young's modulus of wet
rat tail tendon of 8 -4- 2 )< 109 dynes/cm. 2. This is approximately the same
value as that reported by Gratz (5) for human fascia lata.

same source.

More generally, to make a tissue permanently longer, there are two way:

a) no new “matter” is created - the total amount of tissue doesn’t changes. So, if the tissue elongates, it also becomes thinner.

b) new matter is born - so the tissue can grow both longer AND stronger.

If the continued imposition of load has the goal of avoiding healing, we are in the a) scenario. So the penis start becoming thinner; going ahead, I think what we should expect is a major injury.

So, what that repetitive straining of the weakened tissue should lead? This weakening process can’t go ad infinitum, or an injury will occur. So, to save the theory, they suppose that weakened tissue will heal anyway, overnight. This is counter-intuitive, and is not supported by any reference:

2. Repair and Remodelling:
Healing of the most connective tissue except bone, epithelium and endothelium occur by tissue repair. This is often accompanied by fibrous scar, which is the typical patching material for wound repair. Repair responses vary considerably in different injured tissues. After an injury, the healed tissue is never same as it was before. Tissue repair starts at 48 hours after injury and lasts up to 6 to 8 weeks, fibroblasts begin wound repair and collagen synthesis. Collagen has the property of gradually shortening when it is truly formed. This contracture occurs from the third week to the sixth month. New scar tissue will always shorten unless it is repeatedly stretched.
Remodelling, also known as maturation, involves increased collagen density and organization, resulting in increased tensile strength. This process begins as early as 3 weeks following injury and continues for a year or longer.…nflammation.pdf

This is not fitting with the idea that some days off per week will make your penis heal in a shorter state. TA is not a tendon, but is similar, and I think supposing it can heal 20+ times faster than other connective tissue is hard.
But what is also interesting, is that imposing additional stress on injured connective tissue is counter-productive both for elongation and for strengthening effects:

Healing process can not be accelerated but guided to avoid delayed or poor repair. The injured part should be elevated to avoid high tissue pressure, gentle movement should be encouraged for venous drainage, drainage of a haematoma will avoid continued irritation, and prevention or rapid reduction of the inflammatory exudates will avoid dense scar tissue. To encourage good quality repair, gentle natural tension should be transmitted to the new collagen bundles as they are laid down to ensure correct architectural line up. These movements are usually appropriate from the 5th day, and should be progressively graded until final healing. Mobilization of the tissue by active and passive means will result in increased tensile strength of the healing tissue.

(same last source)

If mantaining a weakened TA is the escope, one should mantain tissue immobilized

Following immobilization, ligaments reach their yield point and failure point at lower than normal level of force. Clinically, this means that lower forces are required to produce partial ligament and capsule tearing as well as complete failure. If the tissue under repair is kept absolutely immobile, the resultant fibrous repair will be weak and collagen is laid down haphazardly. It may be plentiful, but it is poorly engineered. Fibrous healing is stronger if natural movements are encouraged. It seems that fibroblasts need to know which way to lay their collagen fibers. Gentle normal movements provide natural tensions in the healing tissue, and the resulting fibrous healing is much stronger.

(last source)

What I’m pointing out is this: differently from what adverse party exonents believe, I think that healing, becoming longer/larger, and becoming stronger are all products of stress - unavoidably. Even when using extenders (very low force), to obtain gains you have to raise force. So, permanent elongation without healing can’t be gained.

Resuming: this theory suggests continually loading tissue because is exchanging elastic (temporary) elongation for permanent elongation.
Permanent elongation is the result of adaptation that requires long time; this accords to anecdotal evidence:
many hangers reported “not cemented gains” after breaks; on the other hand, many reported “gains in a spurth” after some week (or even months!) of rest.

The limit-force that is supposed to carry to permanent elongation (3-8% for tendons) is more easily reached with manual stretching, and it cause some alterations to connective tissue that asks for repairing (read to first reference posted), so the process requires at least some day to be accomplished.

Are theory on lengthening is base of a medical principle that is use all over the world to cause an appendage to grow more actual tissue it is leg lengthening.

The leg is made up of the same stuff as the penis except with the leg you have bone that you would have to break first to start the proses. Thank god there is no bone in the penis. Constant load on the leg and increased tension month to month yields new tissue and bone.

Are theory is not really a theory since it has been done in the medical community on the leg or arm for at least the last 50 years. If not more.

If you or others think that the penis made of some think other than connective tissue skin and fascia I.e. The tunica then I don’t know what to say.

Lets clear some things up the body doesn’t need rest to start the healing it starts as soon as it see damage. Doctors don’t put the leg in traction then remove the traction and allow for the leg to heal, they know that the body will heal and adapt to the new length by making new tissue cope with the outside stress. I know what your going to say because I have heard you say it before that the leg has nothing to do with the penis but the fact are they are made of the same stuff sorry that’s a fact. .

If a muscle is ripped from the bone the muscle and tendons retract into a ball and if it is not reattached it will stay that way for life. One more thing if you tear a tendon or lig let say in the elbow then put the arm in a cast at a 90 degree angle the tendon or lig will heal in it shortened state and you will lose range of motion in your elbow. Are theory is sound from a logical stand point as well as a medical one there is not much more to say then this

Your other problem with the way you believe the body works is that if you work the penis like weight training you need rest days this is not the case. Muscle need rest days the penis doesn’t need rest day when stretching. If you allow rest days when you are stretching the penis will heal and become tougher this is the body way of stopping what we are tying to do to it you must keep the penis in a weakened state and allow the body to adapt to the new length allow tissue to grow with the stretched length. Think of it this way the body doesn’t know you are trying to make the penis bigger it just see the stressors and it will react to these in 2 ways. One if you allow the penis to rest after trauma to the penis it will retract and heal it’s self in a smaller state this is even seen in penis enlargement surgery, they will tell you it is mandatory to keep the penis extended or you could end up with a shorter penis then you started with and only by hang or extension will you get your full benefits from the surgery. The body will not only heal the damage but it will make the penis tougher because it wants to protect it self from further trauma. Think of scar tissue.scar tissue is more then 10 time stronger then regular skin. My doctor told me this when I had surgery he said it is almost impassible for me to rip scar tissue because of how it is formed.

The other way would be to do as the hangers and extenders do and keep it extended one the trauma has been done to the penis this will cause the body to make more cells and tissue . The body will not just allow the penis to get weaker and weaker like you proposing if this was the case we would see guys who hang and extend all the time ripping the penis right of the body if all structure kept getting weaker this is what would happen to the penis and the leg for that matter but we see the opposite happen so your theory is illogical at it’s core.

I would like to ask the guys on here to respond to one question do you believe that the leg has most of the same tissues as the penis other then soft muscle of the penis the leg has contactial muscle. If you say yes to that then do you also think it is logical that if the leg can be lengthened and it is made of 95% of the same tissue why would the penis be any different, please respond to this question.

The other question is how many guys think this is a sound principle.

How many of you agree with marinera?

Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

Well diesel, thank for your input.

The first point: how many agree with me? My answer could be: who care? You can see that I wrote: the most accredited theory among hangers is the once I’m going to debate. I’m aware that my opinion is not popular. What has it to do with truth?

The second point is: I don’t think leg has most of the same tissues as the penis.

The third point, this example of bone lengthening is based on cutting bone; I hope you don’t want to cut your penis.
Anyway, bones, tendons and TA are all in the connective tissue family; this means that connective tissue has several kind of specific tissues. I think that tendons and ligs are more similar to TA than bones.

About the “weight training mistake”, I haven’t wrote anything in my post about weight-training; and our respsective avatars could tell something about this “lifting weigths paradigma” :) .

The rest of your posts is directed against the studies I linked; it seem you are saying those studies are fakes. Do you have anything better?

One more thing you always talk about guys who are hang and extending that they are at more risk to get hurt but I have seen the opposite when it comes to this most guys report injury’s from jelqing clamping or pumping or at least a negative PI. Check the threads I have never heard one person say they got a negative PI from hanging or extending like loss of erection strength.

As for the having a thinner penis this is also contrary to what I have read on here most guys who hang get a large increase in base girth. I have never read any one ever say I hung for 6 month gained an inch but lost an inch in girth. So were are you getting this from a rat tail study I don’t have a tail nor am I a rat.

In rat studies chromium picolinate cause drastic loss in body fat but in humans it does nothing but help regulate sugar levels in humans shouldn’t you be looking at studies of lengthening human appendages since they are common place in the medical field.

Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

I think it is relevant to find out if you are in the majority or minority here on how you think of growth happens don’t you think.

No one said we were think about cutting the penis I even said thank god that there is no bone in the or we would have to break it first. That was a week rebuttal you have used it before on the TGC theory thread and I said the same thing but nice try.

Let me just confer what you said you do not believe the leg and penis have most of the same tissue I.e. Skin,, veins blood vessel’s, tendons, and ligs, and fascia which is what the tunic is made of but you don’t believe this then the this debate is over. You have proved me right as you confirmed your lack of knowledge of tissues in the body.

No one will even consider what you are saying now I can’t believe you said that but cool. Thanks again for posting a good thread to post are views on how growth really happens. Talk to you soon man I am going to surf some other threads for know.

Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

It’s not what you wrote about weight training it’s you description of rest days and the need for them that looks just like weight training rest days.

Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

I never said they were fakes I said the first one you put up say it’s a rat tail study that’s what it is didn’t you read it.

Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

Thank for your insights, diesel, but could you read the first post of mine before answering? If you don’t get a thinner penis with hanging is exactly an argument against the “don’t let it heal” theory.

Thanks again.

I am not really sure how many heading the same argument can have but it is fun to see a new one for the same argument every couple of weeks. Monty530 didn’t you just start a thread like this yesterday I should have copy and posted, it would have saved me sometime typing.

Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

I will re read maybe I read it to fast.

Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

That’s ok, diesel, I often have to re-read things because I was in a hurry the first time :) .

You do make this place interesting I will give you that your my lex talk to you soon man. See even though me and marinera don’t agree I still found some thing I like about the guy.

Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

Hey thunders did I say something wrong I was just responding to marinera. Sorry if it came of the wrong way.

Current stats march 2008= Nbel 6.75 Bpel 7.5 Eg 5.5

Goal by the end of next year Nbel 8.5 Eg 6.5

Originally Posted by diesel220

I would like to ask the guys on here to respond to one question do you believe that the leg has most of the same tissues as the penis other then soft muscle of the penis the leg has contactial muscle. If you say yes to that then do you also think it is logical that if the leg can be lengthened and it is made of 95% of the same tissue why would the penis be any different, please respond to this question.

Because I make my living from working with tendon, ligament, muscle and joint injuries, (that’s what brought me here, not enlarging my penis but researching the structure and properties of the abdominal aponeurosis, which led me onto study of the TA), I can say with some conviction that I would not draw more than the most obscure parallels between leg lengthening and penis lengthening.

A rat tail is a far better study medium than a limb for investigating the properties we are interested in.

I gave my thoughts on this subject here:

More thoughts on how growth occurs

They have not changed.

firegoat is fully RETIRED from Thundersplace.

All injuries happen from "too much", or "too much, too soon" or "doing the exercise incorrectly".

Heat makes the difference between gaining quickly or slowly for some guys, or between gaining slowly instead of not at all for others. The ideal penis size is 7.6" BPEL x 5.6" Mid Girth. Basics.... firegoat roll How to use the Search button for best results

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