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Marinera could be off putting to put it mildly and I know of a few users on other forums that refuse to come back because of him alone. But the attempt to scientifically explain Monty’s, bibs and others gains were discussed earlier in this thread I believe. What this science mumbo jumbo was attempting to look at was more efficient ways to gain and to keep gaining. Why some make quick gains and then stall despite continuous upping of intensity and religious like fervor to their PE routines.

I think knowing what I know now I could’ve been at my goal long along and that’s saying something as I’m now officially gained 3.0 inches in BPEL and over 0.5 in MSEG, but I back in 2003. The science threads of shiver, babbis, xeno, this thread and others like it have spurred thought, debate, different types of routines and schools of thoughts and for me new found progress. If you put 2 apples in a basket and see 3, give me whatever your taking lol. I joke but do see your point, just giving my perspective.


My MaxVac Setup Longerstretch's Golf Weight and HTW setup My Log

Starting Size: circa 2003: 5 BPEL x 5.0 MSEG August 2007: 6 2/3 BPEL x 5.5 MSEG 04/22/08: 7.5 BPEL x 5.6 MSEG... On and Off again for a while... 11/25/13: 7.75 BPEL x 5.75 MSEG 08/01/19 BPEL 8.03 x 5.6 10/01/19 BPEL 8.19 x 5.6

Originally Posted by longerstretch
Marinera could be off putting to put it mildly and I know of a few users on other forums that refuse to come back because of him alone. But the attempt to scientifically explain Monty’s, bibs and others gains were discussed earlier in this thread I believe. What this science mumbo jumbo was attempting to look at was more efficient ways to gain and to keep gaining. Why some make quick gains and then stall despite continuous upping of intensity and religious like fervor to their PE routines.

I think knowing what I know now I could’ve been at my goal long along and that’s saying something as I’m now officially gained 3.0 inches in BPEL and over 0.5 in MSEG, but I back in 2003. The science threads of shiver, babbis, xeno, this thread and others like it have spurred thought, debate, different types of routines and schools of thoughts and for me new found progress. If you put 2 apples in a basket and see 3, give me whatever your taking lol. I joke but do see your point, just giving my perspective.

Marinera is an interesting guy. He is very anal or harsh and true to his own beliefs. Thats actually what its like having back-bone, having self-integrity!
It is not a negative thing. Standing for (what you consider-) truth is the right thing to do, slaying lies left and right.
I respect that unbending scepticism when presented with supposed “bullshit”.. I get it, I can’t hate or dislike a guy like that, i am like that myself or try to be to the best of my abilities.

Anyway, I am responding to your comment because of another reason.
I actually wanted to inquire about what you know now… as you said, “I think knowing what I know now I could’ve been at my goal long along”

Any key principles, anything major other than the fundamentals, which is… consistency, consistency, consistency, …, using heat / decons / progressive overload, prefer time over weight/intensity, aim to maximize time under tension, etc. etc.

Edit: Congrats for the gains btw.
3” is incredible!!


Then: 6.5 BPEL | 5.5 NBPEL x 5.5 MSEG | 5.0 BEG

Now: 8.11 BPEL | 7.24 NBPEL x 5.5 MSEG | 5.0 BEG

Goal: 9x6 || My journal

I agree I admire parts of marinara but personally I like someone with a backbone and tack.

Those fundamentals were not so fundamental a few years ago. I’d also add not using heat the whole session and that I wasn’t getting the tissues hot enough. How to build a better and more efficient routine. Don’t let it take over your life and obsess about it. Importance of rest and repair, psychologically and on a cellular level. How to look at things more scientifically. How to possibly apply information learned about the stress curve and IPR. Big one, how to use fulcrums.

Among others. I’m gaining though so it’s all good now. I will start updating my log here soon. I have what I was doing this past gains campaign in my log over at MOS.


My MaxVac Setup Longerstretch's Golf Weight and HTW setup My Log

Starting Size: circa 2003: 5 BPEL x 5.0 MSEG August 2007: 6 2/3 BPEL x 5.5 MSEG 04/22/08: 7.5 BPEL x 5.6 MSEG... On and Off again for a while... 11/25/13: 7.75 BPEL x 5.75 MSEG 08/01/19 BPEL 8.03 x 5.6 10/01/19 BPEL 8.19 x 5.6

I see, thanks. Thats what I thought!

> I’d also add not using heat the whole session and that I wasn’t getting the tissues hot enough.

There is room for 2 opposing interpretations to the first part of your statement:
1.) Do not use heat throughout, just only specific parts of your routine
2.) In context with prior sentence, some things were not fundamental. Not using heat throughout was the problem. Solution, use heat through out!?

Which one are you saying? Even though I am sure you are saying #2, a case can be made for #1 too:
Cool-downs.

Right now, I am heating throughout except for the last set of my last exercise (last set of hanging).
I let it cool down to room temperature.

Btw. how did you notice you were not getting the tissue hot enough? Gut feeling? Did you measure skin temperature? Are you judging from your gains?
I don’t have a thermometer, so I cant specifically measure how much heat there is on my junk…
I am warming it up using a rice sock - I am simply pressing a rice sock on the top side of the shaft for 2.5m, then bottom shaft (penis laying on stomach) for 2.5m and repeat that twice for a 10m warmup. Then I keep it heated throughout a session by simply having the rice sock lay ontop of my shaft.. I know it does not heat it perfectly, but better than nothing?!

What do you say?

PS: Oh yeah, IPR and rest is a big one…but the I in IPR can be taken to dangerous levels.. I tend to “inflame” it barely or not at all, just your usual full routine workout, whereas P is more passive PE like ads and R is a couple of days rest (even though R takes up to years to complete)..
It seems that the recovery period starts anywhere between 3-7 days after inflammation (earlier guesses were 48h+), so my goal in my routine is to cause I (in IPR) as early as possible, then tone it down so that recovery is not obstructed!
I do Monday - Wednesday full routine (I phase), whereas Monday is the “most intense” (actual full routine, the other days is half the routine).
Thursday/Friday extending and weekends off.

Do you think I am applying it correctly? I just recently found out about it! Considering Xeno, who is also applying the IPR protocol, my rest might be too short.. That dude trains for a week or two, perhaps three, then takes off for 2-3 months or so :O


Then: 6.5 BPEL | 5.5 NBPEL x 5.5 MSEG | 5.0 BEG

Now: 8.11 BPEL | 7.24 NBPEL x 5.5 MSEG | 5.0 BEG

Goal: 9x6 || My journal

Originally Posted by manko007
Some exact numbers would be helpful and percentages and see how it compares to others here.

Today I hung again and took measurements. My elastic limit was reached at 2.15% or 0.50cm over bpfsl prework, same as before, albeit in only 20min of ads. So 60min may not be necessary. Then my first set at 4.2kg my creep was 1.58% or 0.30cm over elastic limit. So I upped the weight to 5.2kg and achieved a creep of 2.63% 0.50cm over elastic limit on the second set. It is worth mentioning I did not feel fatigue on 1st set, and certainly felt fatigue (tingling in cord, stretched area) on 2nd set. Using heat always, except for reaching elastic limit.

> Using heat always, except for reaching elastic limit.

Why no heat when reaching elastic limit?
My approach to reaching elastic limit is by using an extender (1.25kg) for 1h!
I use heat throughout!


Then: 6.5 BPEL | 5.5 NBPEL x 5.5 MSEG | 5.0 BEG

Now: 8.11 BPEL | 7.24 NBPEL x 5.5 MSEG | 5.0 BEG

Goal: 9x6 || My journal

For the past 2-3 days I have been reading this thread and I have also checked out manko’s & kyrpa’s progress logs, that apply the knowledge distilled from here… and I must say - why the heck isn’t the entire PE community paying more attention to these two guys.

Their success with the same “routine” is PHENOMENAL.

From what I understand so far, what they are doing is mainly trying to cause strain in the 2-4% region, usually upwards of 2.5%.
Strain being (post workout BPFSL / pre workout BPFSL).
It seems that manko is trying to strain through creep and kyrpa via elasticity exhaustion (stress relaxation).

I have started hanging recently and since I gave all of this a read, I have adopted the strategy and am trying it out as well, in fact, today was my first session!
I have not measured BPFSL but I plan to do in order to track strain.
I am using heat extensively, just not like those two guys, I simply use a rice sock, no infrared or ultrasound heating!
I will probably not be as efficient as those guys, but I am employing a bit of a mixed approach, I do not target to cause strain via elastic exhaustion nor creep only, but by using both, as Marinera hinted at, which Kyrpa quoted here: Kyrpa - Manko007’s road to big dick land
Marinera called it the “2-phase PE approach”, which is basically using ads or extender to exhaust elasticity and then load weight for creep adaptation (strain).

That is what I am trying to approximate:
I heat up for 10m (rice sock —> 2.5 top shaft, 2.5 bottom shaft, repeat twice, enclosed with t-shirt to isolate heat from escaping),
then I extend for 1h at 1.25kg with rice sock sitting on top side of shaft, pretty much keeping it very warm (but declining temperature) over the entire duration.
Then I do 10 tension stretches for 20s (0 intensity at t=0s, 60-70% intensity at t=20s) which is my approach to trying to approximate “stress relaxation” (I don’t have a contraption yet to properly do it) while I reheat my rice sock. (I know stress relaxation works a bit different… if anyone got a better idea, I am willing to listen!)
Immediately afterwards, I hang my first set. Then I reheat my rice sock again, during which I am doing JAI stretches.
I repeat this two times with each time incrementing weight 0.5 in the following sets.
And in the last set, I do not heat, I use the 3rd set to “cool down”.

I will need to take measurements to see whether my approach is fruitful in regards to causing 2-4% strain. I hope it is, otherwise I will have to tweak it and make it work some other way.

IMO the whole PE community should be watching those two guys! They have had ridiculous success, I’d say the likelihood of it being random for 2 guys at the same time is low!

Again, phenomenal threads!!!

Edit: The reason I am paying credibility to all of this is because of a random personal experience. A few weeks ago, when I was completely oblivious to all of this, I did something stupid…
I extended for 4 hours (1h sets) and afterwards, I thought I should stretch manually… Well, I did it… with my usual stretch-intensity… and I almost broke my dick!
I had kind of an idea what happened, but after reading through this read, I now know for sure:
Elasticity was completely exhausted and I caused strain well beyond my max BPFSL (well thats how it felt anyway, I did not measure)! Which was dangerous and stupid!
Anyway, now I will be aiming to repeat that in a controlled and systematic fashion, just like those two guys!


Then: 6.5 BPEL | 5.5 NBPEL x 5.5 MSEG | 5.0 BEG

Now: 8.11 BPEL | 7.24 NBPEL x 5.5 MSEG | 5.0 BEG

Goal: 9x6 || My journal


Last edited by ehlolol : 08-05-2019 at .

Amazing isn’t it! I’ve updated my log here, I don’t want to side track this this thread too much. I didn’t measure my dick temperature but I believe manko did an experiment with IR and US heat. Now that I’ve experienced US heat I know I had the IR heat lamp to far away. Even Xeno used heat and was able to get his hot tub to around 40 degrees Celsius. That kind of moist heat would’ve been excellent.

I do a few heat and cool cycles, especially as my macro cycle continues into the later “I” stage. Read my log here and at MOS. Interestingly marinera got my hamster wheels spinning and my last cycle evolved into what looks like a hybrid of manko’s and Kyrpa’s routines.


My MaxVac Setup Longerstretch's Golf Weight and HTW setup My Log

Starting Size: circa 2003: 5 BPEL x 5.0 MSEG August 2007: 6 2/3 BPEL x 5.5 MSEG 04/22/08: 7.5 BPEL x 5.6 MSEG... On and Off again for a while... 11/25/13: 7.75 BPEL x 5.75 MSEG 08/01/19 BPEL 8.03 x 5.6 10/01/19 BPEL 8.19 x 5.6

@longerstretch
I checked out your progress log and read up til page 51 on mos, as you suggested.

Man… I think I am slowly understanding how this really works.

Quick question for you: Do you think that creep can be induced without hanging (after elasticity has been exhausted)?
Using something like this:
- 10m warmup
- 1h extending
- 5m manual stretching (instead of hanging)
Then repeat all of that again, 2-3x

I am imagining this progression, but I may be wrong:
20 BPFSL -> 20.3 post extending -> 20.5 post manuals.
20.5 BPFSL -> 20.5 post extending #2 -> 20.6 post manuals #2
20.6 BPFSL -> 20.6 post extending #3 -> 20.6 post manuals #3

The question is - does BPFSL return to max elasticity or maintain max creep when you go back to extending?
Or in other words: is the intensity of the extender (0.9-1.2kg) enough force to maintain creep adaptation, or is the tissue strong enough to revert back to max elasticity (20.3) as in first round, during round #2.
If an extender can hold & maintain max creep, one could completely substitute hanging with manuals, which is less time consuming and therefore, more effective.

Or do you think it would be better to simply repeat the manual portion after extending once?!

I am asking you because I think you may know, having more experience than me.
If not, what is your best guess?

Regardless, I will be experimenting to find out. I am reeally curious!!

Edit: Another thing - whats your opinion on: warm up only VS warm up + using heat throughout?
From what you wrote in your logs, if I understand it correctly, I think you believe that that a warm up is enough to prepare the tissue/collagen structures; once load is applied it will quickly realign itself and heat no longer is required and would actually be contra-productive, as that would oppose the alignment to cool down / cement in its new direction..


Then: 6.5 BPEL | 5.5 NBPEL x 5.5 MSEG | 5.0 BEG

Now: 8.11 BPEL | 7.24 NBPEL x 5.5 MSEG | 5.0 BEG

Goal: 9x6 || My journal


Last edited by ehlolol : 08-06-2019 at .

Manual stretching might be good for you. It’s tough to say. Hanging works for me to standardize the stress I applied, plus I can apply ultrasound heat and play on my phone at the same time. Best way is to try it and see how you respond. Not sure it’s really more time efficient unless your manual work is less than what you can hang.

I’ve tried warm up only and it’s good but I think I read research on applying heat while stretching a tendon that showed promising results. I think there is merit to what I’m doing and it’s working nicely. If I make any changes they will be small in my next campaign. I wil give the threads I mentioned another read through to really nail this stuff down. Most of it is over my head honestly and I just try to decipher it to the best of my ability.


My MaxVac Setup Longerstretch's Golf Weight and HTW setup My Log

Starting Size: circa 2003: 5 BPEL x 5.0 MSEG August 2007: 6 2/3 BPEL x 5.5 MSEG 04/22/08: 7.5 BPEL x 5.6 MSEG... On and Off again for a while... 11/25/13: 7.75 BPEL x 5.75 MSEG 08/01/19 BPEL 8.03 x 5.6 10/01/19 BPEL 8.19 x 5.6

Originally Posted by ehlolol

The reason I am paying credibility to all of this is because of a random personal experience. A few weeks ago, when I was completely oblivious to all of this, I did something stupid…
I extended for 4 hours (1h sets) and afterwards, I thought I should stretch manually… Well, I did it… with my usual stretch-intensity… and I almost broke my dick!
I had kind of an idea what happened, but after reading through this read, I now know for sure:
Elasticity was completely exhausted and I caused strain well beyond my max BPFSL (well thats how it felt anyway, I did not measure)! Which was dangerous and stupid!
Anyway, now I will be aiming to repeat that in a controlled and systematic fashion, just like those two guys!

Hi Ehlolol,

I have done the exactly same thing once. There were absolutely no elasticity left and dick was aching and tingling all over. I don´t know how many days went without erection but in few days it felt healthy again.

I still can get there after few weeks on program but in controlled fashion knowing what I am doing. Without hurting myself .

Thank you for your kind words, they are very much appreciated.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by longerstretch

I’ve tried warm up only and it’s good but I think I read research on applying heat while stretching a tendon that showed promising results. I think there is merit to what I’m doing and it’s working nicely. If I make any changes they will be small in my next campaign. I wil give the threads I mentioned another read through to really nail this stuff down. Most of it is over my head honestly and I just try to decipher it to the best of my ability.

Ultrasound definitely not for warm-up. For taking it as the actual tool for penile enhancement, yes.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Understand

So from all this what your saying is

1. Progressive overload is optimal & low weight for as much time as possible is not.

2. Rest over 3-6 weeks is optimal? (When would I know when to rest?)

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