I thought I had extremly low LOT, but now it seems I have a high one?

I thought I had a very low LOT until I came across this old Bib’s post:

“While doing the LOT test, many guys have reported movement at the top base of their penis while doing the kegal. I think for most, if not all, this is the LIGAMENTS reacting to the kegal.

When you begin to see the Loss OF Tugback of the head, and you see a movement in your base, that should definitively be your LOT. That is the exact point that your PC no longer affects the outer shaft, and the energy from the PC is affecting the ligs.

I think the reason some guys are having problems finding their exact LOT, is because they are getting some head movement, because the PC is working through the ligs, and the ligs are pulling back the outer shaft slightly.”

Well, my first thought when reading this was- of course I see and feel movement at the base of the penis, where else? When doing the LOT test, my entire penis is being pulled to the body, and yes, I feel it and see the movement at the base of my penis even at high angles - 10, even 11 o’clock. There is no “turtle like” effect of my penis head AT ANY angle - the entire penis is pulled in. So, does this actually mean that I have a LOT of 11?

I am aware that this seems like a stupid question, but I’m really confused. You see, I have trained my PC for quite a while before taking the LOT test, and my PC is very strong. So could it be that the ligs are pulling my outer shaft as Bib here described? Obviously this is very important for me because my LOT is either very high or very low.

People here talk about this “turtle head” effect. Does this mean that, when you perform LOT test, foreskin stays where it is, thus producing this turtle effect or what? I’m well aware that this thread might be one of the stupidest, but I really, really don’t understand this.

Bib was wrong in the quote above. Ligs can’t tug on anything.

Assuming the LOT theory is true as postulated, LOT occurs when the tension we apply to the ligs is enough to prevent the “tugback muscles” from retracting the shaft when we kegel.

Above your LOT, tension is transmitted from your stretching hand, through the shaft, past the slack ligs and into the deep base. This is where the muscles reside that pull the shaft rearward when you kegel.

Below your LOT, tension goes from your stretching hand, through the shaft, and into the ligs. The part of the shaft behind the ligs is out of the picture. You’ll see some twitching when you kegel, but since the tension you are applying is directed through the ligs you won’t feel your dick pulling back against your hand.

Go by feel. The point at which your penis no longer pulls your stretching hand back when you kegel is your LOT. The base will continue to twitch well below your LOT.

I think the LOT theory is valid, but I also wonder if there are other variables apart from our simple schema that can affect the LOT angle. Overall it seems to be good for providing a general guideline. If your LOT is extremely low, focus on stretching upward. If extremely high, focus your effort downward.

All this measuring stuff is nice, but feel is more important. If your LOT is in the middle, use the direction that feels the most productive.

I’m a little concerned that guys, especially newbies, may be overly concerned with measuring LOT and not focusing enough on sensation. If you feel a good stretch going down or BTC, spend more of your time there. Same for up, sideways or whatever. LOT is only a rough guideline to point you in the general direction.

I think newbies should stretch in every direction in the beginning stages of a PE program.

Very well explained. Good post, hobby. :up:

Thank you hobby.

I feel a good stretch when I pull my penis down, does that mean that I have the capacity to further stretch my ligs regardless of the LOT?

And here’s another quote from Bib:

“The shorter, tighter, or higher the ligs, the more ‘inner’ penis, and the more quick, easy gains which are possible, and possibly the more total gains which are possible as the ligs are lengthened.”

I don’t know whether or not it’s the same with everyone, but it seems to me that I have quite a bit of inner penis. I’ve touched and pressed around the area, and it seems to me there is at least an inch in there. Comments?

Yes, you should stretch down if thats where you feel the stretch best. The most important thing I’ve learned about PE is that you really should do it the way it feels right. Of course it’s important to experiment and try what other people finds effective. You shouldn’t take LOT theory so seriously. There is no way to tell for example which is the best angle for you or me. We just have to find that out ourselves. People are different, there are so many factors which affects PE generally.

>I feel a good stretch when I pull my penis down, does that mean that I have the capacity to further stretch my ligs regardless of the LOT?

Maybe. IMO, even guys with “low” LOTs should spend some time stretching down/BTC to make sure lig gains are maxed before changing focus.

Lig gains are the easiest way to increase length. It would be a shame to miss out on some relatively easy progress. We don’t know what LOT angle is low enough that no further length can be had from stretching ligs. I’m sure there is individual variation. Maybe one guy will have gained all he can from lig stretch when his LOT is 8, yet another guy’s length will increase clear down to 6.

Results are what matter. Focus on stretching down for a month or two. If you’ve gained, keep going until the progress stops. When it does, change angles.

There isn’t any point in continuing to pound away at the ligs once they are long enough to not be restraining your size. You won’t gain anything by making them super-extra long. When the ligs are lengthened enough to be out of the way, focus on upward angles to work the part of the shaft behind them (“inner penis”). As this part lengthens the lig attachment point will move forward, retensioning the ligs. Then you can go back to stretching ligs again.

Yep. Take two guys identical in every way except one has tight ligs and a high exit point. The other has long ligs and a low exit point. Even though their shafts are exactly the same length, the high/tight guy will have a shorter BPEL. He also has the potential to gain more.

Let’s say Guy A is high/tight and Guy B is low/loose. Remember, their shafts are the same length.

Guy A has a BPEL of 5”
Guy B has a BPEL of 6”

Guy A makes great initial progress by lengthening his formerly extremely tight, restricting ligs and matches B’s length. Now they are both in the same position, though A has already “gained” a full inch.

I think this is Bib’s drawing. Notice how length can be gained even if the shaft itself (brown part) doesn’t lengthen.

Great posts, hobby. I am a newbie and when I first came to the site I started reading about LOT and got really absorbed into learning and studying it. But I think you are correct in saying that focusing too much on the LOT can be dangerous (or unproductive really). I read a thread started by Sparkyx about learning your PIs (physiological indicators) in order to achieve maximum gains. I beleive that, though the LOT thoery is true and should have SOME impact on your routine, we should more consider what looks and feels right to us to structure the proper routine. I think everyone should read that thread. It is extremly insightful. I have it saved in my favorites. If any one is interested in reading it (if you have not already done so) here is the link:

When I have made great gains, I…

I know it is long, but it is well worth the read.

Thanks. LOT can be a useful guide, but that’s all it is.