Need Input ASAP! PE skeptic Emailed me :(

Right now I am currently taking a break from PE to let my black & blue marks from the BIB Hanger heal, and I will begin with my basic beginner routine in several months. The reason- I am restoring my foreskin. I have a foreskin stretcher attached to me 8-12 hours a day. Anyway, I belong to this Email list of fellow foreskin restorers and one guy became curious about making his penis bigger. A frequent poster to the list replied with this email:

>> there is a certain amount of controversey (at least on this list)
>> regarding the power jelq exercises. some (myself included) think it
>> is dangerous. be sure you know what you’re doing.

> I know this is not scientific, and not much better than gossip, but I have a
> buddy who was hot into pumping, and he cant get a good hard anymore.
> Maybe something else, but I am not sticking my ____ in one of those after
> seeing his grief.

I think your friend is hosed.

Guys, please, OH pleeease, do NOT jelq or vacuum pump your penis! It's BAD
for you! Erectile dysfunction can add new meaning to the phrase "a life of
quiet desperation."

To my knowledge, there are no scientific anatomical studies of the effects
of jelqing on the inner erectile structures of the penis to cite. It's also
a safe bet that the National Institutes of Health is not going to fund one
anytime in the foreseeable future. So, as a biologist, I'm offering you my
best scientific hypothesis as to what happens when these penis enlargement
methods are applied:

The corpora cavernosa contain a myriad of small elastic-walled
chambers that fill with blood during erection. Penis enlargement schemes,
whether they be jelqing or vacuum pumps, work by causing an extravagant
increase in blood pressure within the copora cavernosa. This expands the
size of the small chambers until their elastic walls progressively lose
their elasticity, and go on to eventually rupture and scarify.

The promoters of jelging and vacuum pumps often claim that their methods
actually promote circulation and the health of the penis. They then present
testimonials from guys who say that jelging increased the firmness of their
erections. What I think is happening here is that these men have already
distended and/or ruptured some of their small elastic chambers. Now, during
an erection, the blood under pressure presses directly against the outer
walls of the corpora cavernosa. This does give a firmer erection for a time
- but only for a time. Now, with the blood impinging directly on outer
walls of the corpora cavernosa, those outer walls now begin to progressively
loose their elasticity - never to be recovered.

You might think of the corpora cavernosa as a couple of long balloons that
undergo repeated filling and emptying over the course of a lifetime of
erections. The system of small chambers contained within are like a
cylindrical roll of bubble wrap packing material - which adds considerably
to the structurally integrity. You don't want to progressively rupture the
small chambers in your bubble wrap one-by-one with jelging or vacuum pumps.
If you do, the corpora cavernosa take an unnatural hit from the blood
pressure. They become like a toy balloon that you have inflated and
deflated many times. They never return to their original shape when
deflated. They are…hmmm…larger when flaccid than a new resilient
balloon.

In addition to the damage done to the small chambers within the corpora
cavernosa, it's a safe bet that other vascular damage is also done
throughout the penis. When jelqing, the goal is to cause a forward rush of
blood towards the head of the penis. However, it's also a virtual certainty
that some blood under pressure also unavoidably goes in the reverse
direction. When it does, it must rush with unnatural force against the
vascular sphincters that must remain closed to maintain a normal erection.

It is a medical fact that erectile dysfunction positively correlates with
generalized long-term high blood pressure in men. It's thus not difficult
to see that by causing an extravagant local increase of blood pressure
through the use of jelqing or vacuum pumps, you're accelerating your way
along to a case of erectile dysfunction.

If you experiment with Tom(PJTopTech)'s method, apply it ONLY to your
foreskin - and then only with extreme caution. Twenty strokes in your first
session is plenty. Twenty strokes may seem like you've done nothing - but
just wait. Power-jelging is like sun exposure. It takes about 5 hours
after you've done it to see the damage. You can always work your way up
with increasing numbers of strokes in subsequent sessions. It's much better
than working your way down once you've done significant damage.

If you don't have enough foreskin to apply the power-jelqer ONLY to the
foreskin, then use another method until you do. My progress, using T-taping
alone, was as rapid as Tom(PJTopTech)'s during the first three months of my
restoration.

Hugh has provided us with a couple of photos of a penis that has been
subjected to vacuum pumping. They are in the Botched Gallery in the
Scarring Section - 7th and 8th photos down the page. The following link
bypasses the warning that you are about to view badly mutilated penises:

http://www.circ umstitions.com/ … Botched3sc.html

As soon as I read that, I immediately wanted to hear your opinions. I’ve gained during my active days of PE, and I am optimistic that I will continue to gain once I have restored my foreskin.

IN FACT… I HAVE ALREADY NOTICED A DECLINE IN MY ERECTION STRENGTH BECAUSE OF MY PE VACATION!

This doesn’t sound good! :)

You have been a member here since Jan 2003 and you believe shit like that? Settle down and remember all you have been learning for the past 2 1/4 years.

I know. I’ve just never seen an ‘attempt’ to counter argue PE as thorough as that one. Which is why I figured I’d share it ;)

I miss the anticipation of gains and rock solid erections, but hopefully I’ll return to that state with a gliding foreskin when the time comes.

Remember science starts out with a hypothesis, un-proven dogma-snake oils-old wives tales. Until it is proven fact, then it becomes science. The question is does PE work for you fellas. It works for me, and as long as one does not over do it you should put on gains overtime. At one time it was thought impossible to fly men to the moon.

“With God all things are possible.”

Kingpole.

It is of course disturbing to read that link from a biologist, but …

He theorizes that the millions of tiny cells or chambers inside the corposa expand and expand until they burst, and gradually the pressure of the blood is on the walls of the corposa themselves because all the little cells of the sponge have burst, so the walls of the corposa eventually lose their tone.

But WHAT IF those tiny cells or chambers never really burst and rupture — what if they just continue to stretch in the course of PE? This is just as valid a theory, and it would explain why, over time, the penis gets larger (it can hold more blood!).

D-Man

I have, however, in the past, expressed a LOT of concern about damaging valves meant to cut off the blood to keep an erection. It just seems intuitive that we could be wreaking havoc on these valves by forcing blood against them.

He’s 100% right on the money I have been doing hardcore PE for the last 5 years and have done very bad damage in fact my dick is swollen way past it’s original size and will properly never revert to it’s original size. But this is my cross in life and I will have to bear the burden of having a big fat swollen dick.

I pumped for over 5 years. Pumping improperly with high vacuum levels. I did everything you can think of wrong with my pump. To high, to long, cold penis, you name it I did it.

And I have better erections today than I did when I was 18. Proper PE methods have helped, but the pumping didn’t seem to hurt.

Just a few comments that may help you write a response:

First, he has a hypothesis which means nothing. I have a different one “Jelqing doesn’t harm you and grows your penis”. Now, it would be time to prove the hypothesis and find out whether it was right or wrong. All he states in his argumentation is speculation, personal believe or whatever. But it is definetly no proof.

Second, why aren’t there any sponsored scientific programs? Here’s my opinion. Who should sponsor that ? The Drug industry, Doctors that earn money on surgical penis elargement ???? Now, think about it, there is no stakeholder in this whole PE thing that would benefit from proving natural PE works. Noone would make a dime from natural PE because it is all about you and your hands and your dick. So, no financial returns for the industry. I wouldn’t do it, if I were selling drugs or making money by cutting ligs with a knife.

Third, he compares human tissue with the plastic bag thing. Yeah, take a look at some of the threads, human tissue behaves differently. I know these comparisons are easy to visualize, but I believe the guy is comparing appels with pears.

Fourth, the high blood-pressure thing. Why do you have high blood pressure ? Because your arteries and venes are narrowed through sediments. The erectyle disfunctions from high-blood pressure patients comes from too little blood in your penis because your arteries are narrowed and thus restrict overall blood flow volumes. .Now, this is very different to what we are doing. We are applying high pressure to the tunica by means of blood to stretch it. But, that has absolutely nothing to do with high-blood pressure.

Hope this helps
MRD

I did a search at RFSU, the Swedish sexual education organization, and on the FAQ they claimed that pulling on your member might make it longer, but the overall volume would remain unchanged = less girth. They were quite adamant in their claims about it not having any effect, but never brought up any “you might hurt yourself” type arguments (exept maybe about hanging? This was a long time ago).

I thought about their claims that PE had no benefits, and my conclusion is that they felt it was really about Pandoras box. If they said “yes, but only if you do it right” they’d be swamped in a debate they’d rather stay out of, ridiculed and with claims and counterclaims zooming back and forth about nonexistent research AND to top it all off, in a month or so the media would have a heyday about “Man damaged penis while doing what RFSU said was good for you” etc. Imagine the mess.

I have not heard anything more about the experiments at Karolinska Institute that was reported here a few weeks ago; apparently medical researchers are letting some men wear the JES to see what happens, and they seem carefully optimistic. But no data is published yet.

As for the actual arguments posted by the biologist, there is a direct flaw in one of his claims; I believe mbuc will back me up on this one:

“The promoters of jelging and vacuum pumps often claim that their methods
actually promote circulation and the health of the penis. They then present
testimonials from guys who say that jelging increased the firmness of their
erections. What I think is happening here is that these men have already
distended and/or ruptured some of their small elastic chambers. Now, during
an erection, the blood under pressure presses directly against the outer
walls of the corpora cavernosa. This does give a firmer erection for a time
- but only for a time. Now, with the blood impinging directly on outer
walls of the corpora cavernosa, those outer walls now begin to progressively
loose their elasticity - never to be recovered.”

Whether you have the blood directly against the insides of the tunica or via the spongy tissue is irrelevant with regards to pressure - the pressure is equal in both cases.

As I understand it, the spongy tissue is not “tight”, it allows fluid to travel from one side to another, but not directly. Take a scotch brite sponge and hold against a water tap - all the water will go through, but it will be temprorarily slowed down when passing through the sponge. So if you have a short sharp shock - as when pounding you SO hard - you want something inside to keep the pressure from making the shape of you shaft change immediately. By having spongy tissue, you keep the short pressure changes from acting out through the entire CC instantly. Since the blood can’t flow freely - quickly - the main shape of you dick stays more or less the same long enough for you to withdraw and get ready for the next impact. If you didn’t have the spongy tissue in there, you would - indeed as our critic claim - have the pressure instantly against the entire inside of the tunica, and in this case keeping the right shape would be more difficult.

Imagine having a ballon, the type that street artists use. They make dogs and all kinds of shapes from them; you can twist and bend all you want. In our case this is not really a good comparison, but the best I can think of right now - the tunica is tougher and wouldnd’t allow such easy reshaping.

Another reason for why the spongy tissue is good is that by keeping the pressure variations local and slowed down, you don’t impact the reverse valves in your veins as much.

So the key would be if we are in fact damaging the spongy tissue? He likens the spongy tissue to bubble wrap - which is bull***t, since we loose the blood from an erection real quick if the mental state changes.

In my mind the only valid argument would be that increased pressure / repeatedly increased pressure wreaks havoc with the reverse valves. That is an issue to discuss further by someone with better knowledge of the actual biomechanics.

I guess there are more arguments to be met, but those are my immediate thoughts on the subject.

I would like to hear that guy’s view on bodybuilding. His thesis is that your body is unable to repair itself and that the amount of blood flowing to parts of your body is always static, unchanged without exterior vacuum, like with a pump. That idea would make bodybuilding, for example, impossible.

What’s your routine? (j/k)

SCOM!!!

It’s just another person’s opinion, either you believe in it, or you dont. It’s not worth trying to sway someone’s opinion, especially someone that has an opinion as strong as that.

In a sense, we are mutilating ourselves, by stretching, pulling, hanging and vacuuming our units, and if you push yourself too far, you will get injured. He touched on the hows and whys, and what could go wrong. And things can go wrong and you can get hurt.

PE is hard work, and you have to really stick with it. Most guys will not stick with it for a long period of time, then they will say that “this” doesn’t work (when really, maybe they didn’t stick with it long enough to see if it would work).

I read “somewhere”, where a Urologist said “stretch it, and it will grow”. This was on the Internet of course, and the “Urologist” might have been a Mental Patient in an institution, who got Internet Access during his recess time.

What you have to realize is that ED is caused by a number of things, and people are quick to blame PE. In some situations, people who severely overdo PE, they will hurt themselves.