Older guys

paulski: There are some understandings that I have come to grasp in my latter years. And I would be willing to bet that what I am about to share with you is a major driving force in the lives of many who are almost obsessive about PE or promiscuity or anything else. But I bet that many to whom this does apply, do not consciously understand it. Here goes.

I believe that men develop through various psychological stages as we move toward maturity and masculinity. And I believe that certain psychological foundations are essential if we are to develop a settled and satisfied sense of his own manliness, masculinity, settledness, maturity, and self satisfaction. As little boys we have a need to be validated by our fathers. We desperately need his affirmation that we are deeply valued by dad and that he believes we are all we should be. Little boys almost desperately call out “Hey dad, watch this, see me? See what I can do. What do you think of me now?” Our own present sense of adequacy is affirmed or undermined by how our dad responded to us.

If we were not affirmed by our dads we may go the rest of our lives with a restless emptiness that we try to satisfy by getting affirmation from others. I really believe that my desire to have a big dick (was larger than average to begin with) was a a manifestation of this. I always wanted a larger flaccid for public urinals, dressing rooms, showers, etc. Knowing others were looking and envious would make me seem validated. It was just another cry of “See daddy, see what I can do? Are you proud of me now?” We seek our significance in having a big dick, large muscles, a hairy chest, cussing like a sailor, screwing as many people as possible, making more money than others, driving bigger cars than others, or filling some other stereotype.

I don;t think one finds peace, satisfaction, masculinity, or the enjoyment of who we are until this fundamental issue is met. Until then we just desperately grope after fulfillment and validation. Very few fathers actually validate their sons in the way that they need for a balanced and satisfying mindset. But the problem can be overcome. Hope this is not too heavy for you. MXL

MagnumXL; “up”

MagnumXL: sorry, it was to read :up:

I had always pictured Avocet in his early 40s. Same with Tit and Wes. It’s tough to tell who the old farts are through this medium.

Well paulski, I certainly commend Magnum’s excellent post - and since his comments have touched me so, perhaps you all will indulge the following as I search for some meaning here:

Perhaps it’s about showing up, about being there for those you care for, for those you feel responsible for. So let me digress a few years (seems like yesterday) when I got the call. I was at a customer’s plant in Ohio working on a controls problem. So I picked up the phone, “yes?” “Hi hon - it’s me - it’s Thursday morning - please be home by then - ok?” “I’ll be there - ‘nuff said.” We chatted a few more minutes and I rang off to make immediate plans to get home. Thursday morning was ovulation time - again, ‘nuff said.”

So, Chicago was 3 hrs delayed due to weather and it wasn’t until 2:30 AM Thursday morning I staggered in. Took a quick shower and crashed only to be awakened 3 hrs later by the warmth of her skin on mine, the subtle smell of perfume, the urgency of her touch - and afterwards the view of her feet draped over the top of the headboard of our old, antique bed as she let gravity do its work - and work it did.

So 9 months later (after all of the Lamaz classes on natural childbirth) it was a hurried rush home from the office just to grab her bag and it was off to the hospital. This was not our first but we were trying for another son and it was to prove to be one hell of a night. The wife had what appeared to be a pretty bad cold and a nasty cough. Trying to sniff-blow through a contraction and cough at the same time is, well, miserable. I’m robed and in the labor room coaching and feeding her crushed ice - from 8pm until the wee hours of the next morning and it’s not working. The one hand of mine she’s squeezing is bloodless - feels like it’s in a vice. She’s stopped dilating - and I can tell her lungs seem to be filling as I hear the rattle and gurgle of what later proves to be pneumonia. I’m damn worried (scared s*less would better desribe it) and, other than a night duty nurse, we haven’t seen a soul for about an hour. It’s about 4:30am - so, I suggest that she try to get up and take a few steps with me and we do and, as I hold her upright, I urge her to try hard to clear her lungs (I didn’t know what the hell else to do - gotta try something) and she hacks up a load of stuff. Upright she’s breathing a bit easier and I can see the improvement in color. We go a few minutes and then she wants back in the bed. And the contractions now come hard - and fast. Where the hell is the nurse - the Doctor - now I am pissed! After smashing the call button they finally show, mumbling something about another call.

At 6am I welcomed my son into this world and, my god, was he beautiful. He was fine, my wife recovered fine, but she did have pneumonia so they held her over a couple days extra. I went home and took care of the others.

We’ve talked about that night, my wife and I, more than a couple of times. She’s said there was a presence there, a comfort, a strength in and through my hands and voice, that made all the difference in the world to her - that night - that special night - and that were I not there she might not have made it. She’s a very strong and serious person so I take seriously what she said.

I simply showed up. I was there at conception - I was there for her through a very difficult labor - I was there at delivery - and I’ve been there for her and all the kids all these years. And, to tell the truth, I still get a buzz about that long night on the airplane circling over that damn airport (with wood) thinking about what lay waiting for me at home - provided that I just showed up.

Thanks for Listening,

MrTiPS :)

In reality, he is 36 - in his head, where he lives.

Concomitant to this phenomenon is the Tempis Ignorati Syndrome wherein you go ahead and behave (because you think you are) as if you were 36. This is very hard on your knees, hips, and shoulders - “Oh yeah, I’ll fill in. I’m great at volleyball!” [You used to be. Tempis Ignorati.] - also embarrassing to your cock and your psyche sometimes, and things do not always feel good the next day no matter the activity.

My advice? Do yoga when you are older, keeping the 36 yr old head-stance - because if you think old, you become old.

And there, Paulski, is a pearl dropped casually for you to pick up and examine.

Avocet8 as always I am filled with great admiration for the wisdom you have shared with us all and some of us on a personal basis and the purpose of this very thread is one reason I love Thunder’s Place. There is so much wisdom here and it is accessible thanks to your the more experienced folk.

I am turning 24 soon and I must admit that many a time I would compare myself to my peers especially in former years( some 10 -15 years ago) as a young man where I would feel so disconnected and look at my friends were without the life experience that I had.That may have been true but regardless of this all in this life I have learnt that lessons and wisdom are not soley determined by age but by our paths in this journey we call life. I always used to think I had it all figured and even though I may understand things which others may never know nor understand I will always continue to learn and grow because there is so much that I have to learn….it is for this reason that I look forward to growing older numerically it means nothing to me but in terms of the growth and understanding which comes through the experiences gained and lessons shared it worth working that path. It so strange for the past years I have always been able to look at things and to myself I thought I was ready for a relationship and during that period I have had three girlfriends, ladies how I loved more than mere words could express. However in relations especially with woman my age I have always been so bloody frustrated, I am like an old man I love unconditionally and value the “really important” things in this life
but now for the first time in almost 10 years,I can say that at this stage I am not ready….this is not my season my time will come and it maybe tomorrow but it certainly is not today.

MagnumXL, I wrote a rough paper/analysis somewhere in my journal( I know it may seem strange but it one of the only thing which can me sane during my formative years) relating to that which you have shared and it contains a great degree of truth; you have the nail spot on kind sir. MrTips, I can not wait till that very special day, regardless of what I want to believe or what I think I understand or may not understand….the birth on one’s very own is something very special and is something I have waited for,for a long in my life and will have to wait for quite a number of years.

Thank you to all those who have contributed to this thread,this has the potential to be the very best thread one that many of us will an can refer to for some of the wisdom shared.

Interesting advice Avocet. I concur. But I have to wonder a bit how the Time Warp works. I am 58, but when asked my age, I have to force myself to remember that it is 58 and not 28. Odd isn’t it? I wonder at what age I’ll think I’m 36? Pancho

MagnumXL, kudos on an excellent post. You have articulated this truth very well. It is exceedingly interesting to me because it eluded me for so long and now, only recently having figured it all out (right?) , I am anxious to share it with all four of my children, especially my three sons, and even more specifically the two who just recently became engaged. I do not want them to waste time feeling inadequate or unvalidated. I would hope they already feel affirmed by me, but if there is anything, or any area where I have left a doubt, I want to correct their thinking now so they can be the strong, independent men they need to be as husbands and fathers. Even though I am not a drinking man, I keep thinking that I need to take each one out for a few beers just to share some of the truths I have learned the hard way, the long way, so that they can be spared that journey or at least have the journey shortened by an epiphany of memory of something I said. It is something I dearly wish my father had done with me. Don

Is that me? You’ve grouped me with people born before WWII. I’m a 50’s boomer thank you very much. And like Avocet, still 30 something in my head.

Okay okay. You are not yet an old fart. But you are rounding third sir and eyeing home. Being well into your 50s, you can no longer claim that favourite designation of the deluded, “middle aged.” I don’t know many people over 110 or so. You lie somewhere in between.

:)

Very well said, it is amazing how much we beat ourselves up.

More Old Fart Wisdom. Unless STAGE TWO (validation of our essential worth by our fathers) is met in some way or another (by a father, uncle, brother, older male friend, by God) , all subsequent stages will be undermined. We need to know that we are loved, accepted, and treasured, worthy, competent, valued by a male authority. We need to know that we fill a space in the heart of a significant older male (preferably our father and God) that no one else can fill. Our significance is thus validated and we then proceed into phase two.

PHASE TWO is a stage in which we proceed to establish our manly competences. This is a stage of exploration and adventure. We learn to do things. Ride a bike or skateboard, work a computer, use a hammer and nails, drive a car, build things, repair things, climb trees, play ball, hunt squirrels, fish, create…..and do these things with significant competence. We learn to stretch way beyond our comfort zone, take risks, do things that others can’t. And all through this adventure we need encouragement, assistance, and validation by older significant males that we have what it takes to be a man. We need to feel that we can do it. That we have what it takes.

Many of us have not gained the foundational support of PHASE ONE. Our fathers failed us and no one else stepped up and took his place. Thus PHASE TWO never actualized as it should. So (as John Eldridge puts it) we never have an abiding conviction that “I have all it takes to be a man.” From that point on we live our lives, driven by the need to convince ourselves and others that we do indeed have what it takes. So we are compulsively driven but never really settled in our manly, masculine self image. We keep groping around thinking….If I have a 9 X 6 dick I will know and others will know I am a real man….If I screw more women I will know and they will know that I am a fully competent man. more money, more power, more things, more muscles. And it all goes on and on without an abiding sense of satisfaction in ourselves. Many of us need to go back and revisit this phase. And with the enthusiasm of a boy or teenager, fulfill our needs in this arena.

By the way, I am not against PE. It is nice to have a much bigger unit. But it will not fill the restless void that results from failure to manifest phases one and two of the development of the masculine psyche. MXL

OK, MXL,

Now you’ve really got me interested. I agree with your phase one assessment. I had no father around growing up, now he’s dead, and it took me a long time to leave phase one. (My brothers never have). I recently passed through phase two, doing many manly things (Military service, building things, sports, etc) and a couple of years ago I realized that I was manly enough and didn’t need to impress anybody else. So now I’m all about obtaining financial security and saving for retirement. What’s the next phase? Enlighten me with your wisdom. :)