Penile stress/strain relationship

OK, who let all these damn smart guys in here? ;)

I googled a bit on the web and found the following image with a stress-strain plot of soft human tissue. Unfortunately the image is small, but the green curve represents the stress-strain curve for soft human tissue and it exhibits qualitatively the same increase in modulus of elasticity, E, (the slope of the stress-strain plot) after a certain threshold strain is reached. I don’t know what this means, but it does look similar to mgus’ data, and presumably there are studies out there on the behavior of tissue under stress (one can hope). Further search yielded this site:

Which discusses blood vessels and says that “collagen contributed mainly to the linear region of the nonlinear stress-strain curve while elastin contributed mainly to the toe part of the stress-strain curve”. The stress-strain curve is shown in the second attachment. So if it is required to stretch the elastin (or the equivalent type tissue in the penis - I’m over my head in terms of biology) in order for growth to occur, then it would seem that one would need to stretch with at least your threshold weight (the lowest weight when the strain increases much slower than at lower weights - ~1.25 kg unheated for mgus). Of course, if one needs to merely stretch the elastin for long periods of time then a lower weight will do fine. Just a guess (without further info), but a good rule of thumb for All Day Stretching might be to find your individual threshold weight and hang/stretch slightly above this force for 8+ hours at a time.

Good job, Innova. I’d realised a while ago I’d swapped over the axis for a conventional stress-strain plot but hadn’t bothered to fix it. I’m glad someone has done it. Also I think, in future, I would stick to plotting the raw experimental data - weight up the x-axis and measured length along the y-axis.

The change in cross sectional area is a valid point but if we stick to plotting weight v. measured length we can look at the shape of the experimental graph without worrying about it. I agree that to process the data into a stress/strain plot it’s something to consider.

By doing this little experiment I think I really proved to myself two important things

1)you have to apply about 1.5kg before the “tougher” tissues (tunica) of the penis starts to take the additional stress

2)heat makes the penis much more stretchable (this was already well known - I just wanted to measure it for myself)

I look forward to seeing your results if you repeat the experiment.

<<In addition, it seems that blood vessels like other biological tissues like to live in a homeostatic stress/strain range. Values of stress/strain outside of this range will lead to adaptation and changes in the tissue structure.>>Http://www.engi n.umich.edu/cla … es/bloodves.htm

Well that sounds hopeful for us PEers!:)

Innova, you seem to know your engineering, you may find the following thread interesting. Any comments would be appreciated.

Pressure in the penis

<<Good job, Innova. I’d realised a while ago I’d swapped over the axis for a conventional stress-strain plot but hadn’t bothered to fix it. I’m glad someone has done it. Also I think, in future, I would stick to plotting the raw experimental data - weight up the x-axis and measured length along the y-axis.>>mbuc

:smack: I meant to say “Also I think, in future, I would stick to plotting the raw experimental data - weight up the y-axis and measured length along the x-axis.”

Mbuc:
1) I will try and read that other thread tonight - I’m busy studying all day for the qualifying exams - and try to do my own experiment tomorrow.

2) I just wanted to also ask: By stating “1)you have to apply about 1.5kg before the “tougher” tissues (tunica) of the penis starts to take the additional stress” you seem to be thinking (like I do) that you have to applied enough load to get past the threshold weight (~1.25 kg + for you). My question is - yes heat makes you more stretchable, but does it change the threshold weight (hopefully downward) so that with the same weight, you get more stretching of the tunica when you heat.. Your data is somewhat inconclusive, though one could argue that your threshold weight with heating is ~1 - 1.25 kg. This would be promising if true and I will try and get more data points in the vicinity of the threshold region since I now know where to concentrate taking data.

3) Finally I will point out that my wife used the Brava system for breast enlargement and it works (it really does) by putting the breasts under ~constant low pressure (20 mmHg or 2.67 kPa or .387 psi) for at least 8 hours every night (recommended 10+) with NO rest days. The growth is 1/2 cup to 1 cup size after 10 weeks - though I guess it would be better to convert that into a volume growth rate.. But I have to go for now.

1) Good priorities, Innova. Career exams first; PE a close second:)

2) I don’t think heat changes the “threshold” weight so much as it increases the strain (stretch) at any given weight. If biological growth is triggered by strain on the penis then heat is probably very useful. A 1.5kg weight with maximum bearable heat will probably cause more strain than 10kg+ without heat.

3)Great to see a married couple both enlarging stuff!

That low pressure (20mmHg) over a breast would create a decent force. A 6” dia. sucker would exert about 10lb force. If only it was as easy for us to get the same effect!

Innova,

you might want to read mbuc’s thread on “simple vacuum hanger for uncut guys”; interesting read. Glad you sorted out the difference between regular materials and bio-materials - I thought mbuc’s graph was so neat, just like the ones I remembered from school (the blue line).

Thunder,

When do we get a new forum called “Mbuc’s experiments”, subtitled “Engineering the perfect penis”? By the way, I’m sorry I missed the part about smart guys not being allowed in here. If we start posting girlie pics in the Curvy bird-thread, will you forgive us?

This is the kind of stuff that makes this site great. Nice work guys.

Mbuc,

I was thinking that it was the applied stress that induced growth, but I think you’re right, after reading more about tissue growth (though still a very limited amount), that the level of strain is important for inducing soft tissue growth. So you are correct that heat would help tremendously in increasing the strain at a given stress level. Unfortunately though, heat itself may retard the tissue growth process. For example temperatures above 40 C (104 F) some enzymes stop working: (from )

“Why is it that we cannot survive when our body temperature rises for just a few degrees above 37 C? A likely reason is that certain key enzymes in the main metabolic pathways of the body have a relatively low optimum temperature, such as around 40 C”

So I guess I would say the optimum temperature is probably around ~104 F so that the cells in the penis can still function properly and you get the increase in strain.

Also, am I correct (based on your understanding) that the tunica is the stiff tissue and that you must strain the tunica in order to efficiently induce growth? Therefore, applying stress far below the “threshold” value is essentially useless since other tissue stretches at low stresses and the tunica stretches only at higher stresses. For others without a science background think of stretching two springs connected together, one which is much stiffer than the other. At low forces the stiff spring would hardly stretch at all; and it would only begin to stretch once the other spring was stretched far enough. The reason I wonder is that the Penismaster has a max tensile “force” of 1.15 kg and recommends ~0.7 kg, which is below your “threshold” weight. Perhaps this is why all the studies I heard of for the Penismaster have the test subjects using the device for 12 hours a day, because it barely strains the tunica??

Oh, and I will try and do the experiment Monday or Tuesday, I want to borrow a digital postage scale accurate to 0.1 oz and some calipers.

Hey mgus,

You smart guys are not getting off that easy. A few pics posted in the Curvy Birds thread and then what will happen? You guys will go right back to being smart, just like you were before.

Seriously, good stuff guys, keep it up. I don’t understand any of it myself, but others will.

One thing that may be interesting to study further is the role of heat shock proteins (hsp). HSPs area class of proteins present in all lifeforms (as far as I know) that become upregulated (activated) during cellular stress of all types. The name “heat shock protein” is a bit of a misnomer in that other types of cellular stress also trigger their upregulation. Their role in the cell seems to be mainly to ensure the proper folding and configuration of other cellular proteins. They are also more active during bacterial or viral infections helping to clean the cell of misfolded proteins or foreign proteins, among other things. As regards to PE these proteins are likely triggered during high temperatures, high pressures, and during hypoxia (low oxygen). As to what role they may play in the growth of new tissue or the repair of damaged tissue I do not know. One interesting study highlights their effect. Some bacteria were exposed to a lethal temperature (46 C) and they of course died. However another batch were exposed first to a midrange temperature of about 40C and a little while later were exposed to the lethal 46C. These bacteria were unaffected. Once again, I don’t know what effect this might play in PE, but it is somethign to keep your eye on or to research when you have the time.

Innova,

did you check out the links provided by Hobby (Hey Thunder, Hobby is smart, and he made it to Moderator, didn’t he? ;) ) about the SPS versus Dynamic Splint? I never bothered reading all the research supporting the claims since it made sense with regards to my own experiences from physical therapy. The short version is that fixed length stretches (SPS) will result in a lessening strain over time, whereas dynamic (springloaded) stretches result in creep and constant elongation since the force is constant. Contrary to what would seem obvious, the SPS is as effective at 3 x 30 minutes daily as the dynamic is at 8~12 hours daily. Combine that with heat and I think we’re on to something.

Innova,

About heat and how temperatures above 40 C may be bad for growth, if you read Shivers heat thread (I quoted some in this thread) there seems to be evidence that you need to go above 43~45 to soften connective tissue enough to make it easier to get into the deformation (permanent elongation) range. My experience from physical therapy with ultrasound (used to heat ligaments & muscle) is that a) it is applied right up to the level of uncomfortable and b) that a session doesn’t last longer than a few minutes. So I think that getting up to decent heat may be useful to allow that extra pliability of the tunica, but by no means is it held for any length of time (less than 1 hour).

tube,

are you thinking that by regularly heating we are helping the HSPs to get in there and clean up the waste induced by tearing and bending from the previous PE session?

Every now and then, someone slips through the cracks mgus. ;)