Putting A Finger On The Science Of PE

Pictures at bottom. I am sorry for the inconvenience and the length

(Disclaimer:)

These are wholly my (non-medical expert) views. I will say however from all my injuries from sports I do have a good perspective on tissue healing properties. So in other words don’t do anything stupid and blame it on me, please use your God given common sense. Also yes for the last time this crap works, or at least by my yanking on my penis it makes my wife smaller, and the ruler bigger, either way, I will keep doing it. Also everyone is different so everyone’s growth potential and speed will vary so just keep that in mind. Finally one more thing to keep in mind large fast gains are apparently possible as some people claim however due to the prevalent lack of repeatability between everyone accomplishing this they are statistical outliers as are the people who exhibit no growth even though they apparently do PE correctly. Thank you

(Introduction/Background)

Hi everyone this is my first real thread / post here. Oh and I am sorry about the length, basic research paper, but hopefully this will make you think. I’ve been PEing for almost 1 year and was planning on making this thread a little later, after more research, as it has been very time consuming; However with all the recent inquires into LOT and the science of PE, I thought it might be a good time to go ahead and do this. I’m a mid-twenties individual who lives in the Midwest (US); currently I am employed in a skilled trade in the automotive industry. I have always enjoyed science and been extremely proficient at it, and always try to apply it to everything I do. Just if your curious yes I am also a religious man. Oh yeah this info will hopefully benefit newbie’s, gain and done, and lifers alike. Finally this is not meant as an end all be all resource for PE science; I just hope it will be the beginning of collaboration to furthering our knowledge.

(The Science of PE (at least in my view))

1. Force change (physics) (Basic theory) The guiding principles of PE have always seemed to me two basic principles.
2. Cellular growth (biology) (expansion)/regeneration or multiplication if you prefer (Advanced theory) –continuation of Force change

Wow oh my goodness this is such a revelation, new Noble Prize category for advancements in PE here I come. Ok I’m just kidding this is essentially what every one has said repeatedly. However I’ve only seen this scattered through out many threads and posts so here is my attempt to make a localized reference for these guiding principles, and try to explain my theories based upon on this. At this point I would like to post a basic human anatomy picture I found that I thought would be of interest to anyone reading this thread.

Ok this is the basic principle to ligament gains and in my opinion all PE for that matter (Duh). So what is force change anyway, basic physics of course, ok here are some definitions that are useful to what we are discussing, listed in order of importance. My resources for these are Eric Weisstein’s World of Physics, and a dictionary.

1. Stress: An applied force or system of forces that tends to strain or deform a body. The internal resistance of a body to such an applied force or system of forces.
2. Tensile strength: The resistance of a material to a force tending to tear it apart, measured as the maximum tension the material can withstand without tearing.
3 Elastic limit: Most solid objects which are subjected to an applied stress will return to their original shape and dimensions provided the stress is below a characteristic threshold for the material of which they are made. This limit is called the elastic limit (or sometimes yield point).
4. Plastic deformation: Beyond this stress level, plastic deformation occurs, wherein the atomic or molecular structure changes shape permanently. A deformation of a body caused by an applied stress which remains after the stress is removed.
5. Shear: A deformation of an object in which parallel planes remain parallel but are shifted in a direction parallel to themselves.
6. Rupture: The process of breaking open or bursting, a tear in an organ or a tissue. Ouch!! Please be careful some types are good in controlled amounts, most types are bad.
7. Ligament pop: Initially, the symptoms are pain, and fairly immediate swelling. Often patients will complain of hearing a loud "pop", which is the sound of the actual ligament tearing. (This is referring to an ACL tear of the knee).

Ok so now we know the basic physics principles of what we are doing as far as ligament gains and pretty much all PE is really concerned since everything we do in PE involves stress. So now let’s apply this Knowledge to our biology for results (inches) as that is what we all really care about anyway. Ok to get this ball rolling I will quote a thread from one, Twat——teaser that is. This is in regards to ligaments

“I have had this book for close to ten years. I originally bought it when I was contemplating a health kick many moons ago. Anyhow, I found that this book is pretty cool for martial artists. You have probably seen advertisements for this book in martial arts and fitness magazines. The author is the guy doing the full split between two chairs with two girls sitting on each leg. Dramatic claims like “Kicking Cold!” often appeared with this ad. However I did find that some of these Eastern European Sports techniques might apply to hanging and stretching. So I copied a very small section from the theory part of the book.

Excerpts from page 13 Chapter 1 Theory:

You can permanently elongate tendons and connective tissue sheaths, with minimal structural weakening by low-force long duration stretching with temperatures of tendons at more than 103 F. To increase the amount of permanent elongation, you maintain the stretch achieved while tendons and sheaths we’re worm while cooling down. This fits the description of a relaxed stretch done after the main part of your workout during the cool-down, with this qualifier: the stretch must be done at the range of motion at which muscle fibers exert less tension than the connective tissue.

The joint capsule is a connective tissue sleeve that completely surrounds the each mobile joint. Immobilization for a few weeks causes chemical changes in the collagen fibers of the joint capsule that will restrict your flexibility.

The ligaments holding your joints together are made primarily of collagen fibers. They have more elastic fibers, made up of the protein elastin, then do tendons. Stretching ligaments lead to loose-jointedness and can be effectively applied only with children. In adults, an age related increase in rigidity of collagen fibers makes any stretch at elongating ligaments hazardous. When children stretch ballistically or statically, their muscles do not contract as strongly as an adult’s and their ligaments can be stretched. If a ligament is stretched more than six percent of it’s normal length, it tears.””””””

Ok so what does this mean to us and our efforts at enjoying the art of procreation more? Well simply stated it means that you have to pull at a force that is greater then elastic deformation and less then the total tensile strength of the ligaments (complete failure of all or a majority of ligaments resulting in a long limp noodle). As you can see by the anatomy picture though there are 2 main ligaments, they are the suspensory ligament, and fundiform ligament. Well as you can see that is a whole lot of Ligament to stretch comparatively speaking to the inner penis available. So here is my current working theory of the mechanics behind this, I believe there was another post on some of this theory, I just can’t remember which one. When we stretch we are not really going for plastic deformation of the ligaments and B.C. Muscle alone, but also micro ruptures at the attachment points of the ligaments to the penis/bone. This conclusion I derived from, researching ligament injuries. Here is one quote from a web site on proliferation gfex.com

“Tendons attach the muscle to bone. Ligaments are even tougher than tendons and attach bone to bone, providing the major support of all our joints. When we get hurt and pull a muscle, we also may rupture some of the fibers of tendons and ligaments at their weakest point. This is at their attachment to bone called the fibro-osseous junction.”””””””””””””

After these micro ruptures occur we continue stretching over time (weeks/months) well during this time those ruptures heal and reattach themselves to the bone/penis, however here is the important part they are hopefully closer internally to the B.C. Muscle, at this same time we are stretching the B.C. Muscle which is relatively the easiest thing to deform in the penis anatomy, as the B.C. Is a muscle and altering muscle is not in question, this would mean that more internal penis is exposed relative to that ligaments old attachment point. I believe this is actually what we are doing with stretching and hanging, kind of shearing (wiggle-wagging) our ligaments back further on our penis. Great now what do we do eh? Ok so this is where the physics come into play so to speak. If my theory is true then we should not take breaks until our growth stops for an extended period of time; by this I mean seven days a week 365 days a year you should stretch or hang, unless you have pain that you think needs to heal, please take a few days off or risk a serious injury. My opinion is once gains stop (this means keep going until you get some gains, my suggestions based on other users would be at least 1 year) for a period of about 3-6 months you should take a deconditioning break of it least 2-3 months, as this is based on my experiences, and my doctors instructions for other ligaments, as the time it takes ligaments to heal fully!! However I do not mean a complete break, I still believe you should stretch to almost the point or the point of resistance induced by the ligaments, just absolutely no more!! A little less, or, a lot less of course, would be ok. I also think you should do this as much as possible during PE and deconditioning breaks, As this is explained in part 2. During these breaks doing this should permit your ligaments to heal to their maximum ability to allow new growth, due to retaining your shearing gains in large part due to your continued efforts in light stretching.. I also would highly recommend using a heat and cold cycle that best suits your body for maximum flexibility and healing potential. As to various angles obviously straight down and straight out for primarily ligament stretching, and straight up for primarily B.C. Muscle and tunica regeneration. On a side note a possible alternate option to a deconditioning break is going from straight down only to straight up only; as this will focus almost all stress on the B.C. Muscle and tunica and should still allow tendons to decondition. However my guess is that this period would have to be double that of a deconditioning break, 4-6 months, as some force will still be bore by the ligaments. As I have spent more time thinking on this, the second option would seem to be more prudent as you continue doing something, instead of nothing, however I still feel the first option is the best plateau buster, and in that case try at least 3 months if not 6 months to rest and let the ligaments heal and weaken. Also on a side note I have viewed the consensus on length before girth as rule, to be wrong for most people. As most people tend to only do this for a short period of time especially if they do not make any progress. Also as this is a process of potentially many years or even a lifetime and would be counterproductive to waste the time you dedicate obsessively in the beginning to only one thing.

Ok so we’ve covered the basics of force change now let’s get to the more complex and advanced principles of this thread. Cellular growth is where many people draw comparisons to muscles in the human anatomy towards PE. To this there is only one problem in that each type of cell in your body has different inherent properties. This is where the science starts to get muddled as there is no thorough way to truly study living human cells in depth as this requires invasive procedures that I know I would never agree to and most people would not. Also the medical community could not ethically do this as it violates the Hippocratic Oath of medicine to never cause more harm then good. So hence we have to hypothesize on basic principles, as to how cells will react and possibly regenerate, we do this by inferring upon similar models in nature. Now we go on to the definitions again.
1. Cellular: Consisting of, composed of, or containing a cell or cells.
2. Growth: An increase, as in size, number, value, or strength.
3. Expansion: An increase in size. The spreading out of a structure, such as a tendon.
4. Regeneration: Growth anew of lost tissue or destroyed parts or organs, forming again (especially with improvements or removal of defects); renewing and reconstituting.
5. Pliability: The property of being easily bent without breaking, the quality of being easily adaptable.
6. Elastin: An elastic, fibrous mucoprotein, similar to collagen, and the major connective tissue protein of elastic fibers. Also called elasticin.
7. Collagen: The fibrous protein constituent of bone, cartilage, tendon, and other connective tissue that converts into gelatin by boiling.

Alright as I said earlier each cell has it’s own characteristics for handling external and internal changes. So let’s try to characterize the penis as two cell types for simplicities sake as these are the two that have stark differences and the majority of effects on gains. Here is a simple jpeg of the penis anatomy

As you can see there are two main limiting factors as discussed commonly on this forum. They are the corpus cavernosum and spongiosum (from now on referred to as corpus), and the tunica albuginea. So let us first discuss the corpuses properties as they comprise well over 90% of our penises volume. This is a quote from the wikipedia. http://en.wikip edia.org/wiki/C … rpus_cavernosum

“Three expandable cylindrical formations along the length of the penis hold blood during erection. The two corpora cavernosa lie along the penis shaft, from the pubic bones to the head of the penis, where they join. These formations are made of a sponge-like tissue containing irregular blood-filled spaces lined by endothelium and separated by connective tissue septa. There is one smaller such region (the corpus spongiosum) along the bottom of the penis, which contains the urethra.
In some circumstances, release of nitric oxide precedes relaxation of muscles in the corpora cavernosa and corpus spongiosum. The spongy tissue fills with blood, from arteries down the length of the penis. A little blood enters the corpus spongiosum; the remainder engorges the corpora cavernosa, which expand to hold 90% of the blood involved in an erection, increasing both in length and in diameter.Blood can leave the erectile tissue only through a drainage system of veins around the outside wall of the corpus cavernosum. The expanding spongy tissue presses against a surrounding dense tissue (tunica albuginia) constricting these veins, preventing blood from leaving. The penis becomes rigid as a result. The glans penis, the expanded cap of the corpus spongiosum, remains more malleable during erection because it’s tunica albuginea is much thinner than elsewhere in the penis””””””””””””””” ”””””””””

So if you follow this it basically states that the corpuses equals your erection substance, this substance is incased in the tunica albuginea(what holds it all together). Essentially this means that where your blood fills are corpuses, and the tunica albuginea, is what causes the pressure buildup to make it hard. Conclusion from this is that the corpuses are not a limiting factor; as they essentially are a soft highly expandable tissue.Now we move on to the tunica albuginea, this is the real limiting factor to PE success in my opinion. This again is a shared common view among others at this forum.http://www.rang elmd.com/2003/0 … oken-penis.html

“Erection converts the flaccid penis into a vulnerable rigid organ in which the usually thick tunica albuginea becomes very thin and prone to fracture. Angulation or compression of the erect penis shaft will result in an increase in the intracavernous pressure to levels that might exceed the tunical tensile strength and results in it’s rupture. This harmful angulation usually occurs during coitus(intercourse), masturbation or nocturnal unconscious manipulation. Pathologically, the lesion consists of a tear in the tunica albuginea. Bleeding will result in the formation of a hematoma (bruise), and distortion and discoloration of the penis. There may be an associated injury to the corpus spongiosum or urethra.”

As you can see the tunica albunginea (from now on referred to as tunica) is actually very strong at up to almost 30psi (the pressure of most car tires) tensile strength. Now if you really think about this you will see why it is so bad to try to do exercises at full erection. This is due to the simple fact that if you overload a tire what does it do? It bursts of course, and that is bad, especially when speaking about your penis. Alright but why is it so strong you ask? That is due to the fact that it is made of collagen; as you read in the definitions that collagen is made up of protein cells, collagen is the basic building block for most internal load bearing structures. Here is some further reading on collagen from an encyclopedia at answers.com.

"Collagen: any of a group of proteins found in skin, ligaments, tendons, bone and cartilage, and other connective tissue. Cells called fibroblasts form the various fibers in connective tissue in the body. The fibroblasts produce three types of fibers to form the ground substance: collagen, elatin, and the reticulum. Collagen consists of groups of white inelastic fibers with great tensile strength. These fibers include fine fibrils, which are composed of even finer filaments, visible only through the electron microscope. Collagen protein contains an unusually high percentage of the amino acids proline and hydroxyproline. X-ray diffraction studies provide evidence that the protein forms a wavy band, a coiled chain with periodic, I.e., repeating, arrangement of it’s amino acids. Cartilage is composed of fibrous collagen in an amorphous gel. The organic (nonmineral) content of bone is made up largely of collagen fibers with calcium salt crystals lying adjacent to each segment of the fiber; the fibers and salt crystals combined form a structure with compressional and tensile strength comparable to that of reinforced concrete. A group of diseases, often termed collagen, or connective tissue, diseases, involve a variety of alterations in the connective tissue fibers; rheumatoid arthritis, rheumatic fever, lupus, and scleroderma are included in this group. Some of these diseases may involve an autoimmune response, in which the immune mechanism injures or destroys the individual’s own tissues (see immunity). Collagen dissolved in boiling water becomes denatured to form gelatin."""""""""

This means, it least to me, that collagen is primarily one type of cell that can have vastly different overall properties when combined with other cells. As we are dealing with a semi rigid yet pliable form let us look at another picture of collagen and elastin in a cell structure type that I believe is similar to the type found in the tunica. So here first is a description of this picture from http://www.acce ssexcellence.or … en_Elastin.html

“(A) Collagen is a triple helix formed by three extended protein chains that wrap around one another. Many rodlike collagen molecules are cross-linked together in the extracellular space to form unextendable collagen fibrils (top) that have the tensile strength of steel. The striping on the collagen fibril is caused by the regular repeating arrangement of the collagen molecules within the fibril. (B) Elastin polypeptide chains are cross-linked together to form rubberlike, elastic fibers. Each elastin molecule uncoils into a more extended conformation when the fiber is stretched and will recoil spontaneously as soon as the stretching force is relaxed. ””””””””””””

Here as you can see we have essentially a multilayered armor that is attached by elastic type polymers. So to think of this in basic terms picture a liquid like gel that can move freely (relatively speaking) when acted upon by no outside force. However if you apply an outside force lets say a gunshot to this liquid it freezes like a crystal and stops the bullet.

To get straight to the point essentially if you wish to encourage growth of the tunica it must be done in a soft engorged state. The reasons are fairly obvious as to the fact as it is iterated above, the tunica when hard is like steel. There is no elastic type properties when fully engorged. A basic analogy is like plate armor. In that it is flexible and pliable until you compress the plates; So with that in mind think of the tunica like cellular plate armor. If you are hard there is no hope in manipulating the one thing that is easy to deform that being the elastin connecting tissues as they are compressed (restricted) between the plates. Also as is apparent through out the ages getting hard does not encourage growth, or I for one, would have a 3 meter dick, as this is not the case, and PE does work, soft is the way to go for all exercises. I also believe that this extra external force on the collagen particles, from the elastin being manipulated, would encourage collagen regeneration to occur.

(Summary)
Ah this ass is finally done speaking, thank you Jesus. In closing I have spent too much time on this with out any input, and I believe it is rather self sufficient to get the debate rolling if there will be one. So here are my thoughts for debate amongst everyone and if anyone has any questions I will try to answer them so just ask. In closing thank you Thunder and Co for this great site and hopefully this can be some type of contribution to this site. Peace out JM123

Daa amn Jm. I think you have the record for first posts now. One quick question, who owns the images that you have attached? If you can, ID the source of each image. Thanks and welcome aboard!!!

Thanks Thunder, OK I believe these are the owners to the pictures. Fig 5.21 http://www.acce ssexcellence.or … en_Elastin.html is the site for this one.

The other two I got from Google image so I will try to give rightful credit. Anatomy I believe is drawn by Hugh Young, and simplified anatomy is from . I can’t be sure but I believe these are correct.

Thanks for gathering all this info in one place JM. I’ll admit I haven’t read it all yet, but I did look at the pictures. :) In your third one, “simplified anatomy,” you’ve labeled something the BC muscle. The bulbocavernosus actually surrounds the bulb of the penis (the round part just below the Cowper’s glands). The muscle you’re pointing at is the PC (pubococcygeus). We know that because it’s attached in the front to the pubic bone and in the rear to the coccyx.

Thanks Westla I wasn’t really sure, I had another picture to cross reference, but I seemed to have lost it along the way. This has just taken me a couple of weeks of a few hours here and there to put it all together and I was just growing a little tired of it so I thought I would post what I had and get some replies and input from others. By the way if any of you moderators want to move it or other wise chop it up to make it easier to read by all means go ahead. I had just wrote it in word and pasted it in here so I know it could be a little more legible thanks.

Holy snap awesome post !

Welcome man :)

If you can’t convince them, confuse them!

Hey guys I was just wondering if anyone had any opinions on this? That was the main reason I posted, it was to hopefully get some discussion rolling on the actual reasons PE work, feel free to criticize or praise doesn’t matter to me just was looking for some more focus on as to why it works. I am really hoping that if we can get to the bottom of this, we will be able to utilize non standard supplements to PE to encourage growth, and no I don’t plan on selling anything, just trying to help fellow brothers in PE gain size.Currently I have been trying to research antifibrotic herbs and collagen regeneration type herbs for joint health as I think these would be more in line with the areas we should be looking at, thanks again.

Excellent post, thanks alot.

I share the above statements and appreciate that you have put in the efforts of consolidating that knowledge into a condensed format.

In your opening statement you addressed temperature as being critical to the process. I’ve read numerous articles that support that. It suggests to heat up collagen fibres to 40-45 degress Celsius to achieve maximum permanent effects. The only problem, how to heat up your ligs and tunica to that temperature and maintaining it with the equipment/methods we have (e.g. hot water, wraps, red infrared lights).
I suppose that we can only apply superficial heat which takes a long time to spread into deeper regions.

Some practical insights on that topic would be greate.g. water temperature and time necesssary to heat up tissue to 40 degrees 1 cm below skin. Perhaps you’ve come along something ?!

Thoughtfully written post, Jm! :thumbs:

stein: This excellent thread discusses the benefits of heat in PE.

GM

Wow, great post. I’m going to re-read that, just to make sure I understand it all. Thanks!

Damn, that’s alot of knowledge to stomach all at once. Thanks for posting all of this.

Is there a cliff note version to this.

“You can permanently elongate tendons and connective tissue sheaths, with minimal structural weakening by low-force long duration stretching with temperatures of tendons at more than 103 F. To increase the amount of permanent elongation, you maintain the stretch achieved while tendons and sheaths we’re worm while cooling down. To increase the amount of permanent elongation, you maintain the stretch achieved while tendons and sheaths we’re warm while cooling down.”

What is period of this “long duration” and the amount of this “low-force”? No doubt, “minimal strutural weakening” would be ideal. As for the warming and cooling down, does that mean that you heat up the ligament area, stretch it, hold, let it cool down? Cool it down naturally or with help?

Is this similar to what people have been saying about microtears? The expansion is not in the fiber being stretch permanently (since it recoils spontaneously), but in regeneration? This is what is happening with the ligaments also, according to what I qouted from you earlier?