Rethinking PE-Theory

Shouting is using all capital letters t3. It’s annoying as fuck.

Also, you need to spend five minutes learning how to use the quote function.

As Thunder says— using capital letters is considered shouting (and is best avoided unless your intention is to ‘shout’)

To respond to multiple posts (or multiple items within a single post) use the ‘quote’ button.

Click the following link to view an illustration:

ttticker,

Not to browbeat you, but on quoting, you can also cut or copy & paste from several posts, as well.
Then use this:

[QUOTE ] [/QUOTE ] around what ever you want to quote (with no space).

If you do this:

That ^ with this: =ticktickticker
after QUOTE you get this:

Minus the caps, of course, that may be irritating to some.

Detail of code can be found here:

TP code

Well, I didn’t notice that it played any role in my gains. At one time, I was acting on the hypothesis that ibuprofen (brand name Advil) would help by delaying healing and thus allow me to gain length instead of strength. This was during the time I was hanging around 20# btc, feeling very sore, and gaining nothing. I continued to gain nothing after taking the ibuprofen for several weeks.

Unfortunately, I do not have a log of my ibuprofen usage. Like a lot of things, I tried it for a while, saw that it wasn’t helping, and then stopped tracking it. Since I don’t have any data and am relying on unreliable memory, people should take the information for what it’s worth (little) and feel free to experiment on their own. Don’t think that, because it didn’t work for me, it necessarily won’t work for you.

Getting back to the reason for this debate, one should first ask whether inflammation helps or hurts our PE efforts. On the one hand, as discussed above, inflammation might help by kicking off a healing process that leads to proliferation (manufacture of new meat). This is the bone lengthening analogy. You start with an injury, and use the resulting proliferation to extract (distract) length. On the other hand, inflammation can also lead to a thickening of tissues and a resulting strengthening, which clearly works against us.

If one wishes to use IPR healing as a vehicle for gains, it is absolutely necessarly to avoid contraction. Certainly, never let it turtle! Keep the mechanical tension on so that the body cannot return itself to the status quo.

This is a tall order. One may need to keep the tension on for many hours each day to make this work. Perhaps this is the reason that many hangers (including myself) fail. We think we can get away with 2 hours of hanging, 5 days a week. It may take 10 hours of traction, 7 days a week to make the process work. Perhaps anti-inflammatory drugs can reduce this time somewhat. Who knows.

Another strategy is to keep inflammation at such a low level that that body does not launch an aggressive response. This strategy may work better for guys like me who have less time to hang. It relies on the assumption that the body’s response to inflammation is not linear, such that it responds disproportionately less to small injuries than to larger ones. I don’t know whether this is true. If it is, one could maybe milk gains from light hanging, conducted over a very long period of time.

According to this line of thinking, it appears that the worst thing to do is to hang heavy weights only occasionally. That seems to almost guarantee that strength will win out over length.

To avoid inflammation completely, one could hang light weights. Instead of relying on the IPR process to achieve gains, one could rely solely on the “R”—remodeling. Tissues have a natural turnover rate. The turnover rate for collagen in dense connective tissue like the tunica is low. I forget exactly what it is, but I think it’s months to years. By applying light traction over long periods of time, the natural remodeling process may restructure the tissues to reduce the stress, resulting in steadily increasing length.

I’m really guessing here. There are lots of tissues that are subjected to regular stress and don’t grow (consider the shoulder joints).

Modesto,

Excellent stuff! :up: And much to think about for sure…

I don’t claim to have an answer, I am just trying to lend a hand in coming across information that may help in our efforts. Then, as a group, we all can try to interpret these things and maybe experiment a bit…

That and taking a closer look at routines that have worked for others.

But on drugs that may delay healing, or in any other way create tissue weakening, that would be something that should not be entered into lightly since, again, there are other tissues that a PE’er would not want weak or take a prolonged amount of time to heal. I am thinking of someone who runs, or works out in some way, in addition to PE’ing. Upping some of these meds could get a bit dangerous for tissues other than those targeted for PE.

So, again, that would all have to be weighed. No easy answers, it seems…

To reduce inflammation without the unwanted side effects of drugs, ice is very effective. It has the secondary benefit that the tissues immediate homeostatic response is to try to regain it’s normal temperature by flooding the tissues with fresh blood, which also flushes out by-products of inflammation.

It is worth remembering that reducing inflammation will speed up healing, so depending on whether you believe that healing is a bad thing or whether you think it is vital to the adaptation/growth process, inflammation may be considered a good or a bad thing.

Hi Modesto,

As usual, another of your lucid and provocative posts. You said:

’ Instead of relying on the IPR process to achieve gains, one could rely solely on the “R”—remodeling. Tissues have a natural turnover rate. The turnover rate for collagen in dense connective tissue like the tunica is low. I forget exactly what it is, but I think it’s months to years. By applying light traction over long periods of time, the natural remodeling process may restructure the tissues to reduce the stress, resulting in steadily increasing length.’

I have had similar thoughts. I recall having read somewhere that the body renews itself every 7 years or so. When one considers the population of several trillion cells, that’s fierce competition for building material. Compare the mass of your dick to the rest of your soft tissue and it’s an uphill battle all the way.

I also read somewhere in the murky past that the ancient Chinese healers said ‘give it 100 days.’ That means, if one is taking a food supplement or an herb, it might take 100 days to see an effect. So, 7 years to fully experience remodeling one’s favorite appendage? Maybe so. In all of this, it would pay to work with nature and her processes as mysterious as they are than work against her, if at all possible. Patience and great staying power would be required. Traction or stimulation as subtle as the force from a TheraP band wrap might be all that is required - that, and patience. Just some speculation on my part.

All the Best,

MrTiPS

mbuc and I kept logs of low load/long time in the SuckXtender-thread. Mbuc’s flaccid gains weren’t linear, as I recall, but greater at first and tapered off towards the end (per 100 hrs).

Thank you modesto for this very smart and very concise post.

Personally, I made most of my gains when using an ads stretching devise and am just gaining very slowly at the heavier weight right now.

But as I read, newbies often make good gains whatever pe method they are employing so I am not sure whether this is a timing or a hang time x weight phenomenon.

Damn - this thread is interesting but difficult.

What about erect gains?

Were there any erect gains to be had?

Many have speculated that newbie gains result from an entirely different process from gains that occur later in one’s PE career. One idea is that newbie gains result from breaking relatively weak cross-linkages between adjacent collagen fibrils. The fibrils slide linearly with respect to each other, and form newer cross-linkages further down the chain. The newer cross-linkages are more stabile—perhaps because the new arrangement allows adjacent fibrils to pull together more efficiently in parallel—thus resisting further extension.

I agree with Tivase’s suggestion that we should look closely at the routines that have worked for others. We should also acknowledge that different people have different bodies. Collagen can be quite different from one person to the next, and different people heal differently.

I’m not trying to be defeatist; I just think we need to keep trying until we find something that works, or until we get tired of trying and decide to raise spiders instead :) .

Great, I can’t wait until the media starts reporting men found dead in a pool of blood with their pants down and a crazy contraption hanging off their dick. Weeks later we will see the clips of TickTickTicker being escorted in handcuffs over and over again on Nancy Grace with the caption “Self proclaimed German doctor main suspect in PE cult deaths”.

For simplicity of measurement we consistently measured flaccid only. Mbuc noted erect gains, see his logs.

At least when a newbie posts that their little red clamping/jelqing spots have all joined together to become a bright red penis, we will know to ask how much asprin they have been taking! :)

:)

Or we are going to hear about blood filled puffy rings around their dicks. I guess we will have to add another term to the PE glossary: The Jelly Filled Doughnut