Wadzilla, have you seen this thread?

Punctuated PE Theory

Interesting theory. He theorizes that it is thinning of the tunica, not thickening, that accounts for slowing of gains with time.

Whatever….. the most interesting part for me was this:

"I have really grown rapidly after this long break. Gained about 3/4 inch in just a few weeks. Just about 1/16th inch away from 9" now. So I went from 6.5 to almost 9. That is about 2.5" gain without hanging."

MagnumXL has posted a number of times on the subject of extended breaks to jumpstart gains. He recommends a 6 week layoff as ideal.

I wish this guy would post more often…. everything I read from him is golden. He invented V-stretches, you know (he used to go by the handle 7-up). I wish he was around so we could bounce ideas off of him.

Anyway… I’ve been thinking about your friend who went from 5" to 7" in one year. I still think that taking a break and restarting as a "newbie" is the right track to take, and I’m committed to not PE-ing for at least one month (it’s been 5 days and I’m already going batty :( ), but I don’t think I’ll be following your friend’s exact routine.

One thing that struck me about your friend’s routine was the SO stretches. Now although I am considering deconditioning as a method to jumpstart gains, I still believe in the LOT theory and since my LOT is 6, I will concentrate on tunica stretches when I do return to PE. (Anyway, I made all my length gains as a newbie with 20-30 minutes/day fulcrum stretching, so what the hell right? I’ll do what’s worked in the past)

Also, consider the idea that your 5" - 7" friend may have had a low LOT. From the posts I’ve read on the subject, it seems like most small guys have low LOT’s pre-PE. He may have had 2 inches of dick still inside his body that he loosened with lig stretches. I started with 7" and a low LOT, so maybe I was just born with those two inches already outside of my body. Maybe.

Another thing I’m going to try is Magnum XL’s variation of the "jelq-squeeze", described thusly as simply jelqing with your other hand clamping the base:

"One hand remains clamped at the base to keep blood in the erect member. This also protects the tiny valves in the penile veins. The second hand begins at the base and slowly jelq’s up to the fattest part of the penis (in my case about 1" behind the glans) I stop there and squeeze hard as I can without rupturing blood vessels. The fluid pressure will be distributed in all directions, effectively stretching the tunic in all directions. You can see your penis lengthen about 1/16th inch as you squeeze, the glans swells and every other part of the shaft thickens. I dop this in rhythmatic pulses (squeeze, hold 2-5 sec, release, squeeze, hold 2-5 seconds, release, etc. etc.) Get it erect again as possible and repeat. Is this clear? Words can be taken so many ways. Be careful or you may rupture a vessel. I did. I iced it down and it looked bad for a while but in a week it was back to normal. That was a year ago, I guess. Hope this helps. MXL (7-Up)"

In fact, what he is describing here is also the "Uli # 3" movement described here….

Uli’s Routine

….which was eventually modified to the "extreme uli" in which the OK grip at the base is replaced by a mechanical clamp like an Uli thing or a Cable clamp, and in which the jelqing/milking motion towards the head is ditched entirely since the clamp creates such great internal pressure.

I’m thinking of doing the original Uli # 3 in place of the jelq, but with some modification. I say this because I know from experience that just plain old jelqing doesn’t do it for me (even when I was a newbie). In fact, I have NEVER been able to get any post-workout increase in size from jelqing; I can’t get more blood than normal worked into, and temporarily trapped in, my dick with that exercise. All my girth gains as a newbie came from squeezes; I NEED some kind of constant pressure being exerted at the base in order to get any kind of expansion and "trap" the blood in my dick.

So I’m thinking of jelqing in the Uli # 3 manner with either my hand at the base or a cable clamp at the base, but with a much less tight setting on the clamp than what I have been using these past few months. Rather taking the strategy of: "let’s see how far I can tighten this clamp before my dick explodes! ", as I had been doing, I’m thinking my strategy will be to find the loosest setting possible that still causes bloodflow out of the dick to be less than bloodflow into the dick - like a cockring, basically.

Perhaps I’ll simply settle on a clamp setting that most closely mimics the pressure I can exert using my hand as the clamp (which is nowhere near the maximum pressure that I can get with the cable clamp).

I like this idea better than using my hand itself as the clamp because my hand will tire after about 30 - 60 seconds of clamping. Also, with my hands I have to keep restimulating myself to keep an erection, and I don’t like that because it feels like masturbation. With the internal pressure created by a clamp, the erection pretty much keeps itself without too much stimulation, and I don’t have to worry about my hands tiring out or accidentally ejaculating from overstimulation.

Also, with both hands free, I can switch hands when jelqing when one hand gets tired.

I KNOW I gained .3" girth from simple squeezes in about 4 months before hitting a plateau. If, once I get going on this routine, I experience the same thing (another .3" before my tunica gets toughened), that’ll be all right with me because at least I’ll know how to break plateaus then.

I’m also going to try only doing girth 3 times a week, but length 5 times a week.

So my tentative routine, when I get back, will start off like this:

Monday, Wednesday, Friday:

1)Immerse my dick in a cup of hot water, 5 minutes
2)Fulcrum stretching over my steam machine, 10 minutes
3)Uli # 3 with cable clamp, 10 minutes
4)Cup of hot water again, 5 minutes

Tuesday and Thursday:

1)Warm up as described above
2)10 minutes fulcrum stretching over steam machine.
3)Warm down as described above.

Each week I’ll add 5 minutes more to the Uli # 3 until I reach 30 minutes, because 30 minutes was length of time that it took me to do my squeezes back when I was making gains. I’ll also build up to 20 minutes stretch time because that’s how long I used to stretch in those days, too. I am considering building up to 30 minutes of stretching on Tuesdays and Thursdays, though.

I’ll be happy with anything even approaching my newbie gains from this routine. I’ve been at 7.75 x 6 for so long now….. I thought I’d have exceeded 8 x 6 by now. I just want to get past it already! My goal is a .5" x .25" gain for this "cycle".

Oh, so he was 7-up. I remember the V-Stretches. However, I disagree that the tunica thins as we progress on our PE journey; like Bib, I believe that it thickens - perhaps even significantly. As PE’ers, we tend to view the tunica with disdain - if only we could work the spongy tissue & not have to deal with that stubborn jacket wrapped around it. But, obviously, the tunica provides a very valuable service - it is like a conduit, a "mold" when the penis inflates, giving the soft spongy tissues firmness & form. Our units would probably look like a giant pimple if it weren’t for the tunica.

Now, 2 reasons I believe the tunica thickens:
1) We all agree that the tunica is a tough, resistant sheath of fibro-muscular bands - and that this sheath antagonizes our PE efforts. Well, why the quick gains for newbies, but significantly slower gains for vets? If the "limiting" tunica got thinner, then gains should speed up proportionately as we progress along with PE.
2) If the tunica thinned, then our erections should be gradually diminishing in force - for all of us. Yet, my wood is harder than I ever remember it. I’d say that my tunica has become like kevlar.

Furthermore - and Bib has alluded to this earlier, though I rather glossed over it - any load placed upon these tissues, especially connective tissues, actually strengthens it. We tend to think of stretching only "lengthening" our units, but that same (& needed) load is also strengthening our tunica & ligs, gradually making them resistant to further stretching….which is exactly why hangers have to keep upping the weight over time (I think Bib was eventually hanging something like 40-50 lbs).

Any stresses you impart to your unit to make it grow, also strengthens the tissues of your unit, making further growth more difficult.

(Anyway, I made all my length gains as a newbie with 20-30 minutes/day fulcrum stretching, so what the hell right? I'll do what's worked in the past)

Absolutely. Do whatever works/worked for you.

Uli's Routine

….which was eventually modified to the "extreme uli" in which the OK grip at the base is replaced by a mechanical clamp like an Uli thing or a Cable clamp, and in which the jelqing/milking motion towards the head is ditched entirely since the clamp creates such great internal pressure.

I'm thinking of doing the original Uli # 3 in place of the jelq, but with some modification. I say this because I know from experience that just plain old jelqing doesn't do it for me (even when I was a newbie). In fact, I have NEVER been able to get any post-workout increase in size from jelqing; I can't get more blood than normal worked into, and temporarily trapped in, my dick with that exercise. All my girth gains as a newbie came from squeezes; I NEED some kind of constant pressure being exerted at the base in order to get any kind of expansion and "trap" the blood in my dick.

I have a renewed interest in clamping off the base for several minutes at the end of my PE sessions - I think this extended engorgement offers some serious promise.

I KNOW I gained .3" girth from simple squeezes in about 4 months before hitting a plateau. If, once I get going on this routine, I experience the same thing (another .3" before my tunica gets toughened), that'll be all right with me because at least I'll know how to break plateaus then.

I'm also going to try only doing girth 3 times a week, but length 5 times a week.

Yeah, I’m thinking of a similar track - girth 3x weekly, length 5x weekly. And, yes, I’m convinced more than ever that the KEY is found in cycling periodic breaks. We need to stretch the tissue - and, of course, it becomes stronger & more resistant. A layoff results in some deconditioning, i.e., "weakening" of those tissues, prepping it more growth. On-off, on-off - that sort of thing. I also am interested in the heat factor in terms of softening these tissues (at least temporarily) and making them more pliable before, during & after a PE session.

But check this out: I do believe that length, once cemented, is relatively permanent (for the most part), because that phenomenon is well documented in medicine (tissue traction) and is the result of plastic deformation of those tissues. The strengthening of the connective tissues - tunica, septum, ligs, etc. - I believe is only temporary (just like my muscles & tendons have shrank & weakened since I quit lifting weights).

So, lengthen the unit (plastic deformation) until the connective tissues become too strong. Take a break, resulting in some weakening of those tissues - as well as their ability to obstruct further enlargement of the soft tissues. Come back in, take advantage of some weakening of the ligs & tunica to get more enlargement….etc., etc.

Yeah, I really didn’t believe the “tunica gets thinner” part of his post (hence my “whatever” comment), but I thought the post was interesting due to his comments on layoffs and gains.

Another thing that occurred to me. You talked about working till blood spots appear as being undesirable. Sort of like an indication that you had overdone your stretching. Now I am wondering about doughnuts.

What do you think the doughnut effect signifies? I am beginning to think that if you work girth until a donut forms, you are overdoing it. I never used to get that doughnut effect as a newbie. After my gains plateaued and I racheted up the workload, I started getting doughnuts. I also would get this big fleshy knob on the circ. scar, an ugly lump that persisted for a few hours.

As I understand it, the doughnut is the result of fluid building under the skin and on top of the tunica. Obviously not what we want.

I am trying to conceptualize what causes this doughnut, and I am beginning to think that there is a limit to how much CS/CC expansion that one can achieve in a single session, and that once this is reached, forcing continued expansion through continued application of pressure will cause further expansion in the only way possible - fluid build up under the skin, not in the CC/CS.

Most people report getting a doughnut from overpumping, but I have found that enough uli’s alone can cause it as well. It may happen faster with pumping, though, especially when high pressures and long time periods are used - there’s only SO MUCH your erectile chambers can be be forced to expand at once. Past that point, your dick responds to continued pressure to expand (either internal pressure via uli’s, or external pressure via pumping) with expansion in a different dimension - fluid under the skin.

Ever notice that the only guys who report permanent gains from pumping are the guys who use the lowest pressures?

So perhaps another rule to follow, as we ratchet up the workloads, is to never work to the point of developing a doughnut?

Oh, and something else about your friend’s routine that caught my eye. He did his intense stretching AFTER his jelqs. Looks to me like he must’ve blown a load after jelqing, then - so he’d go flaccid for his stretches. I simply can’t imagine doing intense stretches on a big, swollen, jelqed-up member. More evidence against the ejaculation-hinders-gains theory, I’d say.

>>”What do you think the doughnut effect signifies? I am beginning to think that if you work girth until a donut forms, you are overdoing it.”

Definitely a sign of overdoing it. That fluid buildup, which I’ve never had by the way, is probably the body’s response to a localized trauma. I’d definitely try to avoid those.

>>”Oh, and something else about your friend’s routine that caught my eye. He did his intense stretching AFTER his jelqs. Looks to me like he must’ve blown a load after jelqing, then - so he’d go flaccid for his stretches. I simply can’t imagine doing intense stretches on a big, swollen, jelqed-up member. More evidence against the ejaculation-hinders-gains theory, I’d say.”

I found his order unusual as well. For me, I’d always begin a workout completely flaccid; I’d take advantage of the limpness by doing stretches - which would very gradually arouse me to a good jelq level. Then I’d jelq. I also always preferred the logic of post-stretch jelqs as a restorative measure from all the squeezing while stretching, crimping the glans, etc.

I don’t know why he did them in that order. We didn’t go into a great deal of detail. He may have wanked it afterwards, don’t know. But I highly doubt that old myth about nutting within 4 hours, either side of a workout. That crap may have even started at Cheesy Cheery - a veritable cesspool of disinformation and cynical commercialism.

Regarding the doughnut thing again, I believe it’s the body’s way of trying to help a local injury. Just like swelling of a sprained ankle. Sure, some of it is blood, but not all of it. And even after several days, it’s still swollen. The body keeps fluid around that area to act as a cushion or padding until it heals sufficiently. While that’s not a perfect analogy, I’ll be that doughnut has a lot to do with compromised circulation (from all the pressure) - perhaps it’s even a sort of “blister.” Either way, it’s definitely a no-no, even worse than petichiae.